Operation Sindoor

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pmodgill said:
Guys i got some really stupid whatsapp message with link from UK TELEGRAPH. I am not well versed with Military stuff. Can anyone confirm or debunk what this below bullshit message is.

"
“How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets”
www.telegraph.co.uk

How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets

The apparent involvement of Chinese aircraft in shooting down a Western-made Rafale has ricocheted through defence circles
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

At 4:00 a.m., something extraordinary happened—not on the battlefield, but in the diplomatic shadows. China’s ambassador to Pakistan reportedly made an urgent call to Rawalpindi.

Within hours, a long-prepared contingency went live. What followed wasn’t just an air skirmish—it was a revelation that shattered the myth of India’s air dominance.

The Indian Air Force had been assembling for days—nearly 180 aircraft concentrated on the western front. The goal was clear: repeat Balakot, break Pakistani defenses, and restore the image of strategic supremacy.

But the skies were no longer the same.

Why They Stayed 300 km Away

The Indian Air Force never crossed the threshold. They knew what waited for them beyond it:

Chinese J-10C fighters, sleek and silent
PL-15 missiles, Mach 5 hunters with over 300 km range
Erieye radars, linking every shooter into a single deadly nervous system

What India saw was not just Pakistani pilots—it was China’s entire air warfare doctrine stretching from Skardu to Pasni.

And the Rafales? They never saw it coming.

One Rafale—valued at over $250 million—was reportedly shot down mid-air. Another barely made it back. The Spectra EW system, designed to protect it, was overwhelmed. The PL-15 didn’t come with radar—it came with AI-guided silence.

This wasn’t a dogfight. It was an ambush.

The Pakistani Air Force, aided by Chinese targeting satellites and AWACS, executed a sensor-fusion kill. The Rafales never got a lock, never even saw their adversary. When the missiles hit, it was already over.

And India knew: if one Rafale can fall, so can five.
That’s why the fleet was grounded.
That’s why they stay 300 km away from the border.
Not because they lack courage—but because they now lack certainty.

Strategic Embarrassment

The implications are enormous. India’s prestige weapon, the Rafale, fell to a Chinese missile fired by a Pakistani jet. That’s not just a tactical failure—it’s a geopolitical message.

Even Bloomberg wrote it: this is a live demonstration of Chinese-Pakistani integrated warfare.
Western analysts are stunned. French defense contracts are rattled.
China, meanwhile, is watching quietly… and smiling.

The Game Has Changed

This isn’t 2019. This isn’t Balakot.

India now knows that any venture into Pakistani airspace invites a death trap orchestrated by J-10Cs, PL-15s, and Pakistani resolve.

So they stay back.
Grounded by fear.
Blinded by radar.
And humiliated by silence.

“The Indian pilot didn’t fail from lack of skill.

He failed inside a battlefield he couldn’t see— built by satellites, linked by sensors, and executed by machines.”

In May 2025, the game changed. India’s long-nurtured dream of aerial supremacy—anchored in the purchase of 36 Rafale jets, backed by the mythical Spectra EW suite and decades of French engineering—came crashing down over Kashmir.

It wasn’t a dogfight.
It wasn’t even a fair fight.

It was a doctrinal collapse, witnessed in real time by every military strategist across the globe.

The #Rafale was supposed to be untouchable. Its technology, unmatched. Its pilots, elite. But on that fateful day, it flew into a kill box it never saw. And never escaped.

The Lethal Kill Chain

China quietly stepped in—not in the way most Western analysts imagined.
There were no J-20s or war declarations.
There was a box. A network. A silent chain of observation and execution:

Saab Erieye AWACS patrolling silently
J-10C fighters flying in passive mode
PL-15E missiles—the export PL-15E, the domestic variant with over 300 km reach and Mach 5 speed—locked in and fired…

The Rafale didn’t even know it was targeted until the missile was 50 km away.

At that speed, the Indian pilot had 9 seconds.
Not enough to react.
Not enough to survive.
"
Click to expand...
This is not the Telegraph article. And it's fake propaganda. Can't you discern from the bomabstic language used.
 
pmodgill said:
Guys i got some really stupid whatsapp message with link from UK TELEGRAPH. I am not well versed with Military stuff. Can anyone confirm or debunk what this below bullshit message is.

"
“How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets”
www.telegraph.co.uk

How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets

The apparent involvement of Chinese aircraft in shooting down a Western-made Rafale has ricocheted through defence circles
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

At 4:00 a.m., something extraordinary happened—not on the battlefield, but in the diplomatic shadows. China’s ambassador to Pakistan reportedly made an urgent call to Rawalpindi.

Within hours, a long-prepared contingency went live. What followed wasn’t just an air skirmish—it was a revelation that shattered the myth of India’s air dominance.

The Indian Air Force had been assembling for days—nearly 180 aircraft concentrated on the western front. The goal was clear: repeat Balakot, break Pakistani defenses, and restore the image of strategic supremacy.

But the skies were no longer the same.

Why They Stayed 300 km Away

The Indian Air Force never crossed the threshold. They knew what waited for them beyond it:

Chinese J-10C fighters, sleek and silent
PL-15 missiles, Mach 5 hunters with over 300 km range
Erieye radars, linking every shooter into a single deadly nervous system

What India saw was not just Pakistani pilots—it was China’s entire air warfare doctrine stretching from Skardu to Pasni.

And the Rafales? They never saw it coming.

One Rafale—valued at over $250 million—was reportedly shot down mid-air. Another barely made it back. The Spectra EW system, designed to protect it, was overwhelmed. The PL-15 didn’t come with radar—it came with AI-guided silence.

This wasn’t a dogfight. It was an ambush.

The Pakistani Air Force, aided by Chinese targeting satellites and AWACS, executed a sensor-fusion kill. The Rafales never got a lock, never even saw their adversary. When the missiles hit, it was already over.

And India knew: if one Rafale can fall, so can five.
That’s why the fleet was grounded.
That’s why they stay 300 km away from the border.
Not because they lack courage—but because they now lack certainty.

Strategic Embarrassment

The implications are enormous. India’s prestige weapon, the Rafale, fell to a Chinese missile fired by a Pakistani jet. That’s not just a tactical failure—it’s a geopolitical message.

Even Bloomberg wrote it: this is a live demonstration of Chinese-Pakistani integrated warfare.
Western analysts are stunned. French defense contracts are rattled.
China, meanwhile, is watching quietly… and smiling.

The Game Has Changed

This isn’t 2019. This isn’t Balakot.

India now knows that any venture into Pakistani airspace invites a death trap orchestrated by J-10Cs, PL-15s, and Pakistani resolve.

So they stay back.
Grounded by fear.
Blinded by radar.
And humiliated by silence.

“The Indian pilot didn’t fail from lack of skill.

He failed inside a battlefield he couldn’t see— built by satellites, linked by sensors, and executed by machines.”

In May 2025, the game changed. India’s long-nurtured dream of aerial supremacy—anchored in the purchase of 36 Rafale jets, backed by the mythical Spectra EW suite and decades of French engineering—came crashing down over Kashmir.

It wasn’t a dogfight.
It wasn’t even a fair fight.

It was a doctrinal collapse, witnessed in real time by every military strategist across the globe.

The #Rafale was supposed to be untouchable. Its technology, unmatched. Its pilots, elite. But on that fateful day, it flew into a kill box it never saw. And never escaped.

The Lethal Kill Chain

China quietly stepped in—not in the way most Western analysts imagined.
There were no J-20s or war declarations.
There was a box. A network. A silent chain of observation and execution:

Saab Erieye AWACS patrolling silently
J-10C fighters flying in passive mode
PL-15E missiles—the export PL-15E, the domestic variant with over 300 km reach and Mach 5 speed—locked in and fired…

The Rafale didn’t even know it was targeted until the missile was 50 km away.

At that speed, the Indian pilot had 9 seconds.
Not enough to react.
Not enough to survive.
"
Click to expand...

Spam our drone/missile strike videos and satellite images. For all these tall claims, there is ZERO solid piece of evidence of a Rafale getting downed. Also, the goras are doing it cuz we do not buy US jets - so this is free PR for them (they always do it to protect the image of their holy F-16, even during Balakot they published PR articles claiming no F-16 were downed).
 
pmodgill said:
Guys i got some really stupid whatsapp message with link from UK TELEGRAPH. I am not well versed with Military stuff. Can anyone confirm or debunk what this below bullshit message is.

"
“How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets”
www.telegraph.co.uk

How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets

The apparent involvement of Chinese aircraft in shooting down a Western-made Rafale has ricocheted through defence circles
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

At 4:00 a.m., something extraordinary happened—not on the battlefield, but in the diplomatic shadows. China’s ambassador to Pakistan reportedly made an urgent call to Rawalpindi.

Within hours, a long-prepared contingency went live. What followed wasn’t just an air skirmish—it was a revelation that shattered the myth of India’s air dominance.

The Indian Air Force had been assembling for days—nearly 180 aircraft concentrated on the western front. The goal was clear: repeat Balakot, break Pakistani defenses, and restore the image of strategic supremacy.

But the skies were no longer the same.

Why They Stayed 300 km Away

The Indian Air Force never crossed the threshold. They knew what waited for them beyond it:

Chinese J-10C fighters, sleek and silent
PL-15 missiles, Mach 5 hunters with over 300 km range
Erieye radars, linking every shooter into a single deadly nervous system

What India saw was not just Pakistani pilots—it was China’s entire air warfare doctrine stretching from Skardu to Pasni.

And the Rafales? They never saw it coming.

One Rafale—valued at over $250 million—was reportedly shot down mid-air. Another barely made it back. The Spectra EW system, designed to protect it, was overwhelmed. The PL-15 didn’t come with radar—it came with AI-guided silence.

This wasn’t a dogfight. It was an ambush.

The Pakistani Air Force, aided by Chinese targeting satellites and AWACS, executed a sensor-fusion kill. The Rafales never got a lock, never even saw their adversary. When the missiles hit, it was already over.

And India knew: if one Rafale can fall, so can five.
That’s why the fleet was grounded.
That’s why they stay 300 km away from the border.
Not because they lack courage—but because they now lack certainty.

Strategic Embarrassment

The implications are enormous. India’s prestige weapon, the Rafale, fell to a Chinese missile fired by a Pakistani jet. That’s not just a tactical failure—it’s a geopolitical message.

Even Bloomberg wrote it: this is a live demonstration of Chinese-Pakistani integrated warfare.
Western analysts are stunned. French defense contracts are rattled.
China, meanwhile, is watching quietly… and smiling.

The Game Has Changed

This isn’t 2019. This isn’t Balakot.

India now knows that any venture into Pakistani airspace invites a death trap orchestrated by J-10Cs, PL-15s, and Pakistani resolve.

So they stay back.
Grounded by fear.
Blinded by radar.
And humiliated by silence.

“The Indian pilot didn’t fail from lack of skill.

He failed inside a battlefield he couldn’t see— built by satellites, linked by sensors, and executed by machines.”

In May 2025, the game changed. India’s long-nurtured dream of aerial supremacy—anchored in the purchase of 36 Rafale jets, backed by the mythical Spectra EW suite and decades of French engineering—came crashing down over Kashmir.

It wasn’t a dogfight.
It wasn’t even a fair fight.

It was a doctrinal collapse, witnessed in real time by every military strategist across the globe.

The #Rafale was supposed to be untouchable. Its technology, unmatched. Its pilots, elite. But on that fateful day, it flew into a kill box it never saw. And never escaped.

The Lethal Kill Chain

China quietly stepped in—not in the way most Western analysts imagined.
There were no J-20s or war declarations.
There was a box. A network. A silent chain of observation and execution:

Saab Erieye AWACS patrolling silently
J-10C fighters flying in passive mode
PL-15E missiles—the export PL-15E, the domestic variant with over 300 km reach and Mach 5 speed—locked in and fired…

The Rafale didn’t even know it was targeted until the missile was 50 km away.

At that speed, the Indian pilot had 9 seconds.
Not enough to react.
Not enough to survive.
"
Click to expand...


Sounds exactly like what a wumao/paki would write.

And btw the article is completely different from whatever content you've posted.
 
Last edited:
Interested said:
Why should Indians care about what they say at Reditt . Does Israel care ? No self confident ppl need validation from foreigners
Click to expand...
USA and Chinese defense industry will take a hit, Chinese never really had one but for us it is a major embarrassment who cares about what warplanes pakis have now. They don’t even have bases to land them
 
Interested said:
This will probably not be taken well here ... but this guy is a soldier who died for his country . We should respect him. Our culture is full of stories where the enemies are treated with respect especially when they are dead .

Do not follow the Abrahamic culture , that is not ours .
Click to expand...
I'm sure you'd not take this well too but Krishna when asked by Arjuna at the end of the Kurukshetra war if they couldn't win exclusively by honourable means was told that you can't win a war thru honorable means against people who were inherently dishonest cunning & wicked.

You'd have to emulate these attributes to defeat them else you'd never be able to overcome them. In other words to defeat them you become them.

Every time you feel for such people like the photograph of whom you've linked above, spare a thought for Capt Saurabh Kalia & Sqn Leader Ajay Ahuja & consider how they met their ends or even those 50+ POWs languishing in Paxtan in 1971 whom we forgot to trade for 93,000 Paxtani PoWs when we signed the Shimla Accord.

We still don't know what became of them.
 
crazywithmath said:
Spam our drone/missile strike videos and satellite images. For all these tall claims, there is ZERO solid piece of evidence of a Rafale getting downed. Also, the goras are doing it cuz we do not buy US jets - so this is free PR for them (they always do it to protect the image of their holy F-16, even during Balakot they published PR articles claiming no F-16 were downed).
Click to expand...
More than PR i think its just dollars talking the Paki language.

CNN reporter is totally sold.
 
Sickle_Cut said:
Bharat Karnad and Ex-IN take on Rafale failure in Op Sindoor

Reason is : SAAB Erieye ( therefore, IAF hit hard on it at Bholari and may be one via S400 )

bharatkarnad.com

Rafale failed in Sindoor! Rethink this French option for MFA

[A grounded Tejas vs a flying Rafale!] The usual, unsatisfactory, inconclusive end to Sindoor. And that too inside of three days of start of military operations! What is equally surprising is how q…
bharatkarnad.com bharatkarnad.com
Click to expand...


Kanrad has been debunked on other forums many times. He is a clown when to comes to military technical capabilities. Best to ignore.
 
sameer said:
Sounds exactly like what a wumao would write.

And btw the article is completely different from whatever content you've posted.
Click to expand...
It's fanfic

They have no way of knowing that sequence occurred.



"They stayed 300km away" is def fanfic as MKI with a massively larger rcs were used to chuck bramhos at them the next night

I think muh pl-15 sleek kill chain story writers should find out how many pl-15s pals had to fire to get their hit
 
pmodgill said:
Guys i got some really stupid whatsapp message with link from UK TELEGRAPH. I am not well versed with Military stuff. Can anyone confirm or debunk what this below bullshit message is.

"
“How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets”
www.telegraph.co.uk

How China helped Pakistan shoot down Indian fighter jets

The apparent involvement of Chinese aircraft in shooting down a Western-made Rafale has ricocheted through defence circles
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

At 4:00 a.m., something extraordinary happened—not on the battlefield, but in the diplomatic shadows. China’s ambassador to Pakistan reportedly made an urgent call to Rawalpindi.

Within hours, a long-prepared contingency went live. What followed wasn’t just an air skirmish—it was a revelation that shattered the myth of India’s air dominance.

The Indian Air Force had been assembling for days—nearly 180 aircraft concentrated on the western front. The goal was clear: repeat Balakot, break Pakistani defenses, and restore the image of strategic supremacy.

But the skies were no longer the same.

Why They Stayed 300 km Away

The Indian Air Force never crossed the threshold. They knew what waited for them beyond it:

Chinese J-10C fighters, sleek and silent
PL-15 missiles, Mach 5 hunters with over 300 km range
Erieye radars, linking every shooter into a single deadly nervous system

What India saw was not just Pakistani pilots—it was China’s entire air warfare doctrine stretching from Skardu to Pasni.

And the Rafales? They never saw it coming.

One Rafale—valued at over $250 million—was reportedly shot down mid-air. Another barely made it back. The Spectra EW system, designed to protect it, was overwhelmed. The PL-15 didn’t come with radar—it came with AI-guided silence.

This wasn’t a dogfight. It was an ambush.

The Pakistani Air Force, aided by Chinese targeting satellites and AWACS, executed a sensor-fusion kill. The Rafales never got a lock, never even saw their adversary. When the missiles hit, it was already over.

And India knew: if one Rafale can fall, so can five.
That’s why the fleet was grounded.
That’s why they stay 300 km away from the border.
Not because they lack courage—but because they now lack certainty.

Strategic Embarrassment

The implications are enormous. India’s prestige weapon, the Rafale, fell to a Chinese missile fired by a Pakistani jet. That’s not just a tactical failure—it’s a geopolitical message.

Even Bloomberg wrote it: this is a live demonstration of Chinese-Pakistani integrated warfare.
Western analysts are stunned. French defense contracts are rattled.
China, meanwhile, is watching quietly… and smiling.

The Game Has Changed

This isn’t 2019. This isn’t Balakot.

India now knows that any venture into Pakistani airspace invites a death trap orchestrated by J-10Cs, PL-15s, and Pakistani resolve.

So they stay back.
Grounded by fear.
Blinded by radar.
And humiliated by silence.

“The Indian pilot didn’t fail from lack of skill.

He failed inside a battlefield he couldn’t see— built by satellites, linked by sensors, and executed by machines.”

In May 2025, the game changed. India’s long-nurtured dream of aerial supremacy—anchored in the purchase of 36 Rafale jets, backed by the mythical Spectra EW suite and decades of French engineering—came crashing down over Kashmir.

It wasn’t a dogfight.
It wasn’t even a fair fight.

It was a doctrinal collapse, witnessed in real time by every military strategist across the globe.

The #Rafale was supposed to be untouchable. Its technology, unmatched. Its pilots, elite. But on that fateful day, it flew into a kill box it never saw. And never escaped.

The Lethal Kill Chain

China quietly stepped in—not in the way most Western analysts imagined.
There were no J-20s or war declarations.
There was a box. A network. A silent chain of observation and execution:

Saab Erieye AWACS patrolling silently
J-10C fighters flying in passive mode
PL-15E missiles—the export PL-15E, the domestic variant with over 300 km reach and Mach 5 speed—locked in and fired…

The Rafale didn’t even know it was targeted until the missile was 50 km away.

At that speed, the Indian pilot had 9 seconds.
Not enough to react.
Not enough to survive.
"
Click to expand...
Lol..Looks like a novel by Fredrick Forsyth..
Look at the date , it's 8th May ..he knew everything within next 12 hrs ..he must have special eye to see these things ..

Btw In case anyone interested "Day of the Jackal" by Fredrick Forsyth is my favorite
 
COLDHEARTED AVIATOR said:
I am a noob but i dont understand why we didnt take enemy counter attack seriously when going in to bomb their terrorist camps specially after warning them multiple times that we are coming.

Highly underestimated the enemy.

Anyway,made a comeback and i hope lessons are learnt.
Click to expand...
RoE on the first night was very, very restrictive. We did not target their AD, did not target their radar, very little EW, mostly defensive instead of offensive, which would have increased the chances of survivability, also, we did not engage until missiles were being fired at us. Since we could not conduct SEAD/DEAD, that increased the chances of us getting shot by the PAF, and almost all the victories they scored happened on the first day.

But things turned around on the last day, and Aatank macha diya because the RoE was to shoot anything that poses any level of threat.

But you are right, we did underestimate them in some areas, which I cannot disclose now. IAF had speculated that they had some capabilities, but overlooked them until the missiles rained down.

Rafale did its job very, very well. It breached their AD and EW very well, but it is not an indestructible aircraft; every aircraft is vulnerable to some threat, same goes for the F-35 and the F-22.

I can probably write 10 paragraphs on what the IAF should do in the short, medium, and long term, but Rafale or for that matter, any aircraft or any purchase that seems very expensive, is probably worth the cost. We have half a generation's worth of edge over Pakistan and near parity with China, at least in qualitative terms. But lessons need to be learned.

Our Air offensive on the last day was a textbook definition of a high-tempo air campaign, and all thanks go to the previous air chiefs and one exercise in particular, where we tested our ability to conduct long, drawn-out air operations for a longer period. Exercise Gaganshakti. Some squadrons flew over 40 combat sorties with A2G and A2A weaponry and some even shot down the paki aircraft but we cannot acknowledge them for the sake of the ceasefire and an offramp. We possibly flew over 200 combat missions just on the last day and over 600 in the 4 day long campaign. Some engagements saw over 100 aircraft taking potshots at each other with BVRAAMs. Pakis would shoot 2-4 BVR missile at one target at D-max while we would try to get them much deeper into the engagement cone.

I will discuss this in detail some other day when I have a much clearer picture, but all in all, in my view, the air op was an 8/10, had it not been stopped, it would have been a 9/10.
 
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