Operation Sindoor and Aftermath

[dkkgp]

When someone linked to upper echolon says this.. I have no doubts! Our losses are minimum if any...


View: https://x.com/joe_sameer/status/1926643427782832303https://x.com/joe_sameer/status/1926643427782832303

This assessment is inaccurate. IAF had unchallenged air dominance during Kargil. Way better than in Ops Sindoor. PAF didn't even show up, partly because IAF had better AAMs. There is no bigger testimony of air dominance than the rival air force not willing to show up.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

Are the denizens here aware about the #FundKaveriEngine hastag on Twitter. Let us raise our voices for it. Next OP Sindoor should be with our own weapons and against the panda in north.

 

[Srinivas]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1926628825573593209?t=eJL7eDwcqmV7VIOz8tWLcw&s=19

Why is the back ground noise?

Creating discomfort for the watchers.

 

[Physx32]

I was going through "Project on Nuclear Issues: A Collection of Papers from the 2017 Conference Series and Nuclear Scholars Initiative", a publication by the gora think tank CSIS. According to their analysis, if India struck Muridke (which happened), we would struggle to gain an upper-hand through air-strikes alone (completely inaccurate). And that India would be forced to do a ground assault.

Goras clearly didn't consider the scenario where India can start striking air shafts/vents of Pak nuclear facilities and blow up the tunnels.

You can see the screenshots below:

Spoiler: Screenshots

 

[concard]

This is exactly what I was talking about bifurcating our military budget where at least $3 billion is allocated to each branch just for acquiring new weapon systems.



I hope the news is true. If we would have done this in the last 10 years, things would be different today. IA, IAF, IN each getting $3 billion over 10 years would have been $30 billion investment in each branch of military. Imagine the difference it would have made in our firepower. IAF would have had more aircrafts, IN would have had more submarines and destroyers, IA would have had more artillery guns, rifles etc. We need to continue this for the next 5 years. If we happen to have some wiggle room then target should be $15 billion with each branch getting $5 billion just for weapons acquisition each year.

When 90% of it is used to acquire weapons domestically then we can build many ancillary industries required for building our own military industrial complex. We had no drone industry 10 years ago. But now entire drone ecosystem is taking shape. We had no chip industry 10 years ago. Now, we are building fabs, OSAT plants. We had barely any solar manufacturing 10 years ago. Now, we have the entire ecosystem to build solar panels from end to end. Slow and steady for the next 10 years we would be seeing major changes in diversification of our economy.

 

[Waanar]

View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1925174072058806513?t=Z2M8fDu2nn498EV9a9FBrA&s=19

A couple of MANPADs would really up the ante for all the Paki drones and planes flying around willy nilly.
Porkis don't understand how vulnerable they can get overnight.

Unlike us, porks rely heavily on rotary wing and sometimes, jets, to fight down insurgencies in their COIN ops.
They don't have the heavy border security nor the capability to hold ground the way our military can solely by infantry.

Can they beat back the Taliban if they're able to target their planes or helis in the sky?

I really doubt it, especially considering how easily Pashtuns would switch sides if push came to shove.
We all know the auqat of Pashtuns living in Pakistan. Just ask the previous PM.

 

[Muzh]

I’m hearing that U.S. is intentionally delaying the delivery of GE F404 engine for Tejas. Frankly, I see this as a good thing—it will push the Indian government to invest billions into Kaveri engine program.
So far, the Indian government has not made any serious investment in its aero engine program.

There were a number of people vehemently against buying GE F404 engines because of USA's history of placing sanctions against India. It was suggested that Russian engines were a better option even though they were slightly inferior to GE engines. Unfortunately though, those who wanted fancy American engines won the debate. The result is in front of us. By the way, China uses Russian engines in its indigenous fighter aircrafts. It has worked out very well for them.

 

[ezsasa]

I was going through "Project on Nuclear Issues: A Collection of Papers from the 2017 Conference Series and Nuclear Scholars Initiative", a publication by the gora think tank CSIS. According to their analysis, if India struck Muridke (which happened), we would struggle to gain an upper-hand through air-strikes alone (completely inaccurate). And that India would be forced to do a ground assault.

Goras clearly didn't consider the scenario where India can start striking air shafts/vents of Pak nuclear facilities and blow up the tunnels.

You can see the screenshots below:

Spoiler: Screenshots

View attachment 37253
View attachment 37255

who is the author of this particular paper?

 

[Ajatshatru]

There were a number of people vehemently against buying GE F404 engines because of USA's history of placing sanctions against India. It was suggested that Russian engines were a better option even though they were slightly inferior to GE engines. Unfortunately though, those who wanted fancy American engines won the debate. The result is in front of us. By the way, China uses Russian engines in its indigenous fighter aircrafts. It has worked out very well for them.

There was nothing wrong with importing American engines—it was a sensible decision. What is truly problematic is the inadequate investment in India's indigenous engine development program. The country doesn't even have a flying test bed yet.

 

[asl001]

This assessment is inaccurate. IAF had unchallenged air dominance during Kargil. Way better than in Ops Sindoor. PAF didn't even show up, partly because IAF had better AAMs. There is no bigger testimony of air dominance than the rival air force not willing to show up.

No. I think, it's because pakis did not claim responsibility for the invasion. So, they could not directly help the infiltrators.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1926628825573593209?t=eJL7eDwcqmV7VIOz8tWLcw&s=19

Do we have a thread for covering good multimedia from Indian military operations?

 

[concard]

I was going through "Project on Nuclear Issues: A Collection of Papers from the 2017 Conference Series and Nuclear Scholars Initiative", a publication by the gora think tank CSIS. According to their analysis, if India struck Muridke (which happened), we would struggle to gain an upper-hand through air-strikes alone (completely inaccurate). And that India would be forced to do a ground assault.

Goras clearly didn't consider the scenario where India can start striking air shafts/vents of Pak nuclear facilities and blow up the tunnels.

You can see the screenshots below:

Spoiler: Screenshots

View attachment 37253
View attachment 37255

Since the paper is from 2017, they have not taken into account about the technological progress even for 2017. Today's war is not that of trench warfare of WW1 or simply dropping bombs by flying over a target like in WW2. There is enough standoff weapons in our arsenal today to inflict enormous damage to Pakistan without coming anywhere near the border let alone crossing it. I am 100% sure DRDO is considering development of missiles which can be fired from 500km from within our own territory. Replacing rampage, crystal maze missiles with our very own means we can strike Porkistan at will with our air force and dare them to respond.

Our air defenses are only going to get stronger from here on. Especially now DRDO is also developing Project Kusha to replace S400, expect a dense air defense network all over our country. This is something Porkis cannot match. We paid $5.4 billion for S400 for 5 squadrons from Russia. If Porkis want to buy the cheap knock offs from China assuming they are 50% cheaper, it would be $2.5 billion. That would be 25% of their forex today. They can't afford quality air defense systems in the market. So they will go for adding more fighter aircrafts like J-10 and maybe in future J-31. Because unlike air defense systems which can be overwhelmed and expended by firing missiles, fighter aircrafts can be used again and again if they were not lost in combat.

 

[FIELD MARSHAL SAHWNSTEIN]

Why is the back ground noise?

Creating discomfort for the watchers.

Those are peacocks.

Also gives me more confidence that this was over india since peacocks are only found in very select locations.

 

[Physx32]

who is the author of this particular paper?

Elizabeth Whitfield, Program Assistant, Nuclear Policy Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

 

[indrajit]

A couple of MANPADs would really up the ante for all the Paki drones and planes flying around willy nilly.
Porkis don't understand how vulnerable they can get overnight.

Unlike us, porks rely heavily on rotary wing and sometimes, jets, to fight down insurgencies in their COIN ops.
They don't have the heavy border security nor the capability to hold ground the way our military can solely by infantry.

Can they beat back the Taliban if they're able to target their planes or helis in the sky?

I really doubt it, especially considering how easily Pashtuns would switch sides if push came to shove.
We all know the auqat of Pashtuns living in Pakistan. Just ask the previous PM.

Manpads are a 2-way street. We don't want civilian aircrafts brought down, either in Pakistan or in India. That's why there is an unofficial agreement between R&AW & ISI from the 1990's that no Manpads will be supplied.

 

[Muzh]

There was nothing wrong with importing American engines—it was a sensible decision. What is truly problematic is the inadequate investment in India's indigenous engine development program. The country doesn't even have a flying test bed yet.

Designing and manufacturing a complex machine such as a new turbofan engine is a very complex problem and it cannot be solved by throwing money at it. Earlier in this thread I described in detail what is called Product Development & Lifecycle Management (PDLM) under the auspices of Iterative Prototyping. So, I do not want to bore everyone by repeating the same information.

Here is what I suggested years ago but no one listened to me

a. LAC's aerospace design should have been compatible with AL31FN instead of GEF404

b. HAL/DRDO should have entered in contract with Lyulka for ToT of AL31FN

c. HAL/DRDO should have continued development of indigenous turbofan engines based on AL31FN foundation

d. HAL should have continued manufacturing LCA with Lyulka supplied engines until indigenous engines were ready

e. Step c and d above could been done in parallel

China did exactly what I described above. They are now ready to replace AL31FN with their indigenous WS10. As you guessed it, WS10 is based on AL31FN.

 

[samsaptaka]

@Vinash @ezsasa @Indx TechStyle @haldilal
And other mods, time to close this thread ? Op Sindoor is over (despite what GoI trumpets).
If further ops are done it would be a no name strike and a new normal as announced.
Also discussion has degenerated to general topics and some going way OT
Better to lock this thread

 

[haldilal]

View: https://x.com/detresfa_/status/1926629788510273771

 

[Yt2211]

View: https://t.me/goreunit/17806

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

View: https://x.com/Goreunit/status/1926478838097215688

Humm

at some point all these "would have" "could have" theoretical assumptions have to consciously fall back on reality checks for confirmation. reality check here is what has been stated and executed by the actual main players in the game, in this case the gormint and security forces. they checked almost every box, that security focussed intelligentsia of the country have been debating on.

we need to have clarity on what has been achieved:

- demonstrate that terrorism is the primary issue between India and pakistan.
- combat proven tag to many of the defence equipment
- raise the cost of an misadventure i.e deterrence
- demonstrate restraint factored into the operational planning
- find space for conventional deterrence, as a response to sub-conventional warfare imposed by paki army.
- find space for conventional retaliation under nuclear overhang.
- call out nuclear bluff
- let pakis know, pakjabi heartland is no longer out of bounds
- there is space for both kinetic and non-kinetic responses.
- remind pakis of their lack of strategic depth .
- erase the distinction between jihadis and their state sponsors.


if folks want to apply their mind, and add more chapters to the playbook, can use the above mentioned points as the new baseline and build on it. we also have to be careful not to over read the outcomes, beyond a point so much so that it blurs the lines between hallucinations and reality.

Except Pakjabis dont care about any of this. Pakjabi Army sends thousands of jaahils to get killed. Porki Army is a mercenary Army propped up by Chaiiina. They have no playbook. Nothing. They have assassinated their own leaders with impunity. If you treat Porki Army on par with decent, professional armies, you have lost the plot right there. Porki Army is just one step above terrorists. It is an Army that runs on jaahil and not on diesel, it believes in jinns and not wins, has a leader who is more of a mafia cartel than a field marshal, worships schwarma rather than dharma, promotes human rapes rather than human rights etc. If you think these porki mercenary army will be deterred by logic and reason, you are making the same mistakes as our brokerats - you are trusting venomous degenerates called the paki crore commanders who are programmed to hate Hindus from the time their grandfathers attended mad madressahs. India by not forcefully insisting that the Pagalgam genocide was done by Porki Army chief mullah muneer, is playing right into the hands of the enemy. Ask the Baloch or the Pashtuns - you do not negotiate with the rogue, mercenary, pakjabi army. You decimate them whenever you get the opportunity.