Indian Navy Developments & Discussions (13 Viewers)

[shade2]

Navy will still go ahead with the German option because it is proven at sea. L&T might get some subcontractor work but that is it.

MDL being a PSU will ease 'single vendor' concerns.

There is another oddity where HSL is being built up as a submarine builder by MDL.

Two Indian shipbuilders to collaborate on indigenous submarine construction

Indian naval shipbuilders Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders (MDL) and Hindustan Shipyard (HSL) have entered into a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to collaborate on t

www.bairdmaritime.com

So if this isn't progressing because L&T is upset, that development wouldn't make sense.
L&T going to get ghanta anyway

I think the setup is MDL will subcontract atleast 3 German subs to HSL, MDL themselves will build the 3 additional Scorpenes and 3 German Uboots.

Anyway in the following months we will know.

 

[liberalredditor]

This entire submarine procurement reeks corruption.

If going by available news, DRDO/Navy submitted the relevant document for an Indigenous conventional submarine. But the file has been sitting in the MOD shelf for 5 years and now only provided initial level approval.

If we use the brain by end of 2030 we may have our own submarine design coming out with DRDO AIP.

do we even know the nodal agency for p76 diesel sub design? drdo or wdb or mazgaon dock ltd?? coz they were saying p75 winners experience and tot would help in p76, then some day drdo says we are doing preliminary design review, then someday navy would come up with its own design. who should we trust?? or rather make a jv between these 3 and give production work to mazgaon and 1 pvt player

 

[liberalredditor]

There is another oddity where HSL is being built up as a submarine builder by MDL.

Two Indian shipbuilders to collaborate on indigenous submarine construction

Indian naval shipbuilders Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders (MDL) and Hindustan Shipyard (HSL) have entered into a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to collaborate on t

www.bairdmaritime.com

So if this isn't progressing because L&T is upset, that development wouldn't make sense.
L&T going to get ghanta anyway

I think the setup is MDL will subcontract atleast 3 German subs to HSL, MDL themselves will build the 3 additional Scorpenes and 3 German Uboots.

Anyway in the following months we will know.

hsl vizag to bhagwan bharose hai, remember the refit work which was completed in lightning fast speed of a decade??

 

[SamFP]

Why are we still making multirole surface combatants when most navies are shifting towards specialised ships? Also in a fleet/CBG what ships would play what role?

 

[ArjunMK1A]

do we even know the nodal agency for p76 diesel sub design? drdo or wdb or mazgaon dock ltd?? coz they were saying p75 winners experience and tot would help in p76, then some day drdo says we are doing preliminary design review, then someday navy would come up with its own design. who should we trust?? or rather make a jv between these 3 and give production work to mazgaon and 1 pvt player

Don't go by News items. We are manufacturing Arihant class subs and the proposed design by DRDO/Navy was an mini version of it. It does not depends on the ToT from P75i. The objective was to utilize the Arihant design to an conventional sub. We have existing supplier like L&T (Hull), TATA SED (Control Systems) and other MSME. DRDO AIP is there and we have Kirloskar Diesel which is apprently being manufactured and tested soon.

It justs Navy decided to fixate on AIP AIP AIP for some reason. When things becoming dire on Submarine front. 30+ years submarine fleets.

 

[liberalredditor]

Don't go by News items. We are manufacturing Arihant class subs and the proposed design by DRDO/Navy was an mini version of it. It does not depends on the ToT from P75i. The objective was to utilize the Arihant design to an conventional sub. We have existing supplier like L&T (Hull), TATA SED (Control Systems) and other MSME. DRDO AIP is there and we have Kirloskar Diesel which is apprently being manufactured and tested soon.

It justs Navy decided to fixate on AIP AIP AIP for some reason. When things becoming dire on Submarine front. 30+ years submarine fleets.

but there should be some info on who is leading the program. drdo babooz said they are nearing the end of project definition and are in preliminary design phase, while mdl execs said that the winner of latest import-tot conventional sub winner ie they themselves will do the design and construction as they would have the experience of scorpene and tkms subs. while navy also has its own design bureau which is capable ig

 

[shade2]

Don't go by News items. We are manufacturing Arihant class subs and the proposed design by DRDO/Navy was an mini version of it. It does not depends on the ToT from P75i. The objective was to utilize the Arihant design to an conventional sub. We have existing supplier like L&T (Hull), TATA SED (Control Systems) and other MSME. DRDO AIP is there and we have Kirloskar Diesel which is apprently being manufactured and tested soon.

It justs Navy decided to fixate on AIP AIP AIP for some reason. When things becoming dire on Submarine front. 30+ years submarine fleets.

Reason is Fuel Cell AIP is best AIP and for many years Ze Germans, and in them only Siemens was making a proven AIP module sold with Type 214 and derivative submarines.

Now other vendors are there but they aren't proven, Koreans cloned the Siemens system( along with the whole submarine ) and made the 3000 ton KSS-III submarine but either navy rejected them or they pulled out of the P75I program idk.

Thing is the P75I submarine is supposed to be a 3000 ton boat, the Siemens one is only for the 1700 ton Type 214 submarine, so the AIP system isn't adequate.

TKMS( not Siemens ) is building a more powerful AIP system meanwhile to power 3000 ton class boats like P75I, their own German/Norwegian submarines and come other export class subs.

But once again
this is not
proven

So TLDR is Navy wants Das Deutsche U-booten onlee, simple as.

Perhaps in decades past that bitch Merkel was stopping her vendors from selling us the subs but now ze Germans are more amenable to our demands.

 

[shade2]

but there should be some info on who is leading the program. drdo babooz said they are nearing the end of project definition and are in preliminary design phase, while mdl execs said that the winner of latest import-tot conventional sub winner ie they themselves will do the design and construction as they would have the experience of scorpene and tkms subs. while navy also has its own design bureau which is capable ig

I don't have clarity either but Navy WDB should be doing the design mainly.
They were the ones behind Arihant SSBN in collaboration with Ruskals, not DRDO.

afaik during HDW Type 209 submarine being built in MDL also the WDB had inserted itself somehow so they have some of that experience also.

DRDO doesn't.

For the Tejas also ADA took consultancy of Dassault to start, i've never heard of DRDO ever having anything to do with full submarine design meanwhile.

 

[shade2]

Why are we still making multirole surface combatants when most navies are shifting towards specialised ships? Also in a fleet/CBG what ships would play what role?View attachment 40868View attachment 40869

From the pics of Navy flexing it's wares in those TROPEX exercises



Vikramaditya gets 4x P15A/B Vishakapatnam or Kolkata escorts
Vikrant gets 4x P17A Nilgiri escorts

1x Fleet tanker
1x Talwar class frigate for scouting

It could be more ofc but definetly isn't less.

Nilgiri class is meant for Eastern Fleet btw, also where INS Vikrant is homeported now

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

INS Nilgiri, First Project 17A Stealth Frigate, Reaches Visakhapatnam -

INS Nilgiri, the first of the indigenously built Project 17A stealth frigates, arrived at Visakhapatnam on Sunday. Built in Mumbai, INS Nilgiris now makes Visakhapatnam its home port and would be an integral part of the Eastern Sword- Sunrise Fleet. This state-of-the-art warship is driven by its...

www.newsonair.gov.in

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/IndiannavyMedia/status/1937461856228057321

IN is hyping up an incremental upgrade of a ship class they already have, but hope many Westoid asses are burnt by this.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missiles, K5 and K6 under R&D state, rest two operational.

 

[shade2]

Navy to commission up to 10 warships by December, led by first ASW Shallow-Water Craft ‘Arnala’

Marking the largest single commissioning of platforms in recent years, most vessels have been built domestically under strategic partnerships.

indianexpress.com

>3 Nilgiris total, 1 in service
>2-3 Arnala total, 1 in service
>1 Talwar pending, 1 in service, 2 total
>1 Vizag in service
>1 Scorpene in service
>INS Nistar in sea trials, will soon be in service

The patrakar is accurate, total 10 ships may be commissioned this year give or take.

6 Already commissioned including both the Talwars from Russia, INS Arnala, the 3 ships commissioned in Jan

 

[shade2]

UVLS is something I don't think IN will talk about everywhere. Till now we did not see any ounce of P18 designs. Definitely, UVLS, Integrated Mast, IEP were in consideration. So they are working on it. It is just deciding what kind of Missiles we are going to pack.

Never thought about this but what you say makes sense.

After all P15A Kolkata class was a revolution in terms of hardware compared to what IN had previously with 450km range static radar with CEC capability and 70km VLS SAM missiles and ofc .

Given this pattern and seeing P18 has a long design phase, optimistically i'd expect
>The big 8 meter radar being tested on INS Anvesh
>UVLS firing all 3 kusha missiles and vl-srsam
>one more VLS type for Nirbhay//LrAshm

 

[SamFP]

From the pics of Navy flexing it's wares in those TROPEX exercises

View attachment 40898

Vikramaditya gets 4x P15A/B Vishakapatnam or Kolkata escorts
Vikrant gets 4x P17A Nilgiri escorts

1x Fleet tanker
1x Talwar class frigate for scouting

It could be more ofc but definetly isn't less.

Nilgiri class is meant for Eastern Fleet btw, also where INS Vikrant is homeported now

No BMD or layered air defense, only 192/128 Barak-8s per fleet

Are Kamortas or subs not assigned to CBGs?

 

[FalconSlayers]

By the way, nobody discussed about this. This is 'Varun MKI NSUAS', a 550kg MTOW class Multi Utility Long Endurance Drone (MULE). It is a Naval Shipborne Unmanned Aerial System (NSUAS) class UAV for which Design and Development contract under iDEX was given by Navy. Original requirement for NSUAS systems remains for 40 units as per the latest RFI.

The NSUAS will be launched from a ship and used for Surveillance including SIGINT, Target Acquisition, Reconnaissance and building MDA (Maritime Domain Awareness) around a TaskGroup. The secondary roles of NSUAS would include anti-piracy, anti-terrorist activities and assist in Search and Rescue (SAR).

A glimpse of the prototype development of the said system, which as of now is flying already (as per their website).

View: https://x.com/IndiannavyMedia/status/1849470183553036694

MoU between Altair Infrasec and MWfly, Italy for Collaboration in the Design and Development of Aviation Engines

www.spsshownews.com

That said, it looks eerily similar to Ukrainian RZ-500, and I won't be surprised if it's another "Self Reliance". Just like how the latest Solar industries drone is most likely to be another than own R&D.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

By the way, nobody discussed about this. This is 'Varun MKI NSUAS', a 550kg MTOW class Multi Utility Long Endurance Drone (MULE). It is a Naval Shipborne Unmanned Aerial System (NSUAS) class UAV for which Design and Development contract under iDEX was given by Navy. Original requirement for NSUAS systems remains for 40 units as per the latest RFI.


View attachment 40978
View attachment 40979
View attachment 40980




A glimpse of the prototype development of the said system, which as of now is flying already (as per their website).

View: https://x.com/IndiannavyMedia/status/1849470183553036694

MoU between Altair Infrasec and MWfly, Italy for Collaboration in the Design and Development of Aviation Engines

www.spsshownews.com

That said, it looks eerily similar to Ukrainian RZ-500, and I won't be surprised if it's another "Self Reliance". Just like how the latest Solar industries drone is most likely to be another than own R&D.

Which Solar Industries drone is Screwdrivered ?

 

[FalconSlayers]

Which Solar Industries drone is Screwdrivered ?

Long range gasoline power fixed wing drone VF50P

Product Overview SKYWING VF50P is the vertical take-off and landing(VTOL) fixed-wing UAV with hybrid power. It adopts a composite aerodynamic layout of quad-rotors and fixed wings, combines the advantages of VTOL of the quad-rotors models and the long range of the fixed-wing models. Flexible...

skywinguavs.com

View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1933028943147201019

 

[FalconSlayers]

By the way, nobody discussed about this. This is 'Varun MKI NSUAS', a 550kg MTOW class Multi Utility Long Endurance Drone (MULE). It is a Naval Shipborne Unmanned Aerial System (NSUAS) class UAV for which Design and Development contract under iDEX was given by Navy. Original requirement for NSUAS systems remains for 40 units as per the latest RFI.


View attachment 40978
View attachment 40979
View attachment 40980




A glimpse of the prototype development of the said system, which as of now is flying already (as per their website).

View: https://x.com/IndiannavyMedia/status/1849470183553036694

MoU between Altair Infrasec and MWfly, Italy for Collaboration in the Design and Development of Aviation Engines

www.spsshownews.com

That said, it looks eerily similar to Ukrainian RZ-500, and I won't be surprised if it's another "Self Reliance". Just like how the latest Solar industries drone is most likely to be another than own R&D.

Also, Navy has already purchases around 4 units of Schiebel Camcopter S-100 RUAVs. Used by a lot of Navies already, including China. This was also tested by paki navy in the past but not procured.

 

[snakeeyes07]

But do capital ships like all ships of P15, P17 class need it? Given the primary threat faced from PLAN & PN are salvos of anti-ship subsonic, quasi-ballistic & ballistic missiles. More VLS for SAMs in the space taken by RBU in these ships will come in handy to protect against such missile threats.

As ships operate in task forces during combat, there will be other ships with RBUs available.

Regarding protection from torpedo, something like this can be looked at:

RAFAEL Unveils Torbuster SP Torpedo Defense Suite for Surface Vessels - Naval News

RAFAEL and its subsidiary DSIT Solutions are participating in IMDEX 2023 and are introducing the TORBUSTER SP anti-torpedo system.

www.navalnews.com

This is L&T ARL system (RBU-6000). I think P17A design has the scope to add 2 VL-SRSAM or MRSAM VLS blocks behind RBU.

With P15 design, nothing can be added around RBU. Maybe 2 MRSAM VLS blocks can be squeezed in, just between SSM and existing MRSAM VLS blocks. Also there is potential space available in the ship aft section next to existing VLS blocks (2 MRSAM VLS).

I couldn't find dimensions of MRSAM VLS so not sure how it compares with VL-SRSAM one.