DRDO and PSU's

samsaptaka said:

There is absolutely no way to justify this other than saying top brass, MoD babus are corrupt and hand in glove with Chandigarh lobby.

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Lobby has shifted away from Chandigarh as Quality of Life is not at same par as some other metros in and around India. Wellington, Mussorie, Delhi etc...

Earlier Chandigarh was preferred spot for settling in - as not much comparable amenities were elsewhere in country. But now Chandigarh is out of vogue for high fliers.

samsaptaka said:

There is absolutely no way to justify this other than saying top brass, MoD babus are corrupt and hand in glove with Chandigarh lobby. And PMO and kadi ninda simply don't seem to care.
If IN can work with local industry and even PSU babus what's stopping IA to work with pvt industry like Kalyani, Tatas and come up with requirements? But then that would mean they would have to draft actual requirements not copy paste from some brochure and import to get kickbacks wouldn't it ?

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They have given up on disciplining these "children" and have decided to ignore their tantrums and not give them what they want
Dal Chawal and bhaji is healthy, but they want Israeli Shawarma.

ArjunMK1A said:

View attachment 16166

Any chance this guy is coming back with ATAGS gun on turret. Since Arjun tank is nowhere to go and we can use the tank base to build this.

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We have limited use of tracked SPG plus already invested in local production of korean k9 spg.
Would make more sense to develop a advanced version of that korean spg which will be more suited for our needs in india with drdo and Hanwha.

randombully said:

We have limited use of tracked SPG plus already invested in local production of korean k9 spg.
Would make more sense to develop a advanced version of that korean spg which will be more suited for our needs in india with drdo and Hanwha.

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Nah, any IDDM SPH product is worth more than scresdriver K9, no matter how much L&T try to show it as indigenous

Any company which is just screwdrivering and not trying to make anything of their own by learning from screwdrivering or maybe even reverse engineer things is just a scam in name of self reliance.
All these robo doggy and small drones you are seeing in army PR handles are mostly those Cos which need to be send to gulag for even having the gall to tell those products as IDDM.

Found this on strategic frontier forum.
It's coating necessary to maintain high speed.

View: https://x.com/writetake/status/1860486646598144481

fire starter said:

Khabardaar agar kisi ne beloved genrols ko gaali di.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1858891761306718576?t=Yer9VQxOsdcX7Hh29AjOSA&s=19

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These Jurnails think common man is stupid. This jurnail didn't tell viewers that being 25% heavy ATAGS also offer 25% higher range compared to ATHOS.
Also, a viewer asked if army needs lighter gun to shoot and scoot, Jurnail said "no, arty on mountains digs deep and doesn't move."

SO WOULDN'T IT BE SENSIBLE TO ORDER 20-25T towing truck(already in pipeline ig) and permanently settle the ATAGS with higher range. Still these Jurnails somehow open a backdoor for kikel companies.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PjRciy-GVLM&pp=ygUUU2hhbmthciBzbmVoZXNoIGFsZXg%3D

Nutcracker said:

These Jurnails think common man is stupid. This jurnail didn't tell viewers that being 25% heavy ATAGS also offer 25% higher range compared to ATHOS.
Also, a viewer asked if army needs lighter gun to shoot and scoot, Jurnail said "no, arty on mountains digs deep and doesn't move."

SO WOULDN'T IT BE SENSIBLE TO ORDER 20-25T towing truck(already in pipeline ig) and permanently settle the ATAGS with higher range. Still these Jurnails somehow open a backdoor for kikel companies.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PjRciy-GVLM&pp=ygUUU2hhbmthciBzbmVoZXNoIGFsZXg%3D

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I really think we need to establish an IRGC style "all in one" military organization just to outfit them with atmanirbhar maal, should be under direct command of the PM

Nutcracker said:

These Jurnails think common man is stupid. This jurnail didn't tell viewers that being 25% heavy ATAGS also offer 25% higher range compared to ATHOS.
Also, a viewer asked if army needs lighter gun to shoot and scoot, Jurnail said "no, arty on mountains digs deep and doesn't move."

SO WOULDN'T IT BE SENSIBLE TO ORDER 20-25T towing truck(already in pipeline ig) and permanently settle the ATAGS with higher range. Still these Jurnails somehow open a backdoor for kikel companies.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PjRciy-GVLM&pp=ygUUU2hhbmthciBzbmVoZXNoIGFsZXg%3D

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That 25% additional weight is largely on account of the fact that the ATAGS use electric drives as opposed to hydraulic drives.

While the former confers a huge advantage in operations as well as maintenance wise aside from durability as compared to the latter especially at heights given the fluids used in hydraulic drives are prone to freezing at those heights , the only disadvantage electric drives have apart from repairing / replacing it at heights is counter intuitively the weight .

Electric drives are also much more heavier as compared to hydraulic drives. As of a few years back ATAGS were the only howitzer systems in its class to use electric drives.

Ironically the IA had asked for these electric drives . Then as the weight problems surfaced DRDO was asked to replace it with hydraulic drives except that replacing it would mean going back to the drawing board & restarting from scratch.

Any weight related issues with ATAGS & comparison with ATHOS must take into account the reasons behind the increased weight of the former & questions asked of the IA as to why was it deemed necessary to go in with electric drives in ATAGS given the weight penalty besides asking why must it be held against ATAGS when it was the IA which asked for it in the first place.

Azaad said:

That 25% additional weight is largely on account of the fact that the ATAGS use electric drives as opposed to hydraulic drives.

Electric drives are also much more heavier as compared to hydraulic drives. As of a few years back ATAGS were the only howitzer systems in its class to use electric drives.

Ironically the IA had asked for these electric drives . Then as the weight problems surfaced DRDO was asked to replace it with hydraulic drives except that replacing it would mean going back to the drawing board &

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Aah, this sounds like the "Arjun must have an integrated Mine-plough! oh no, it's overweight, it will sink in sands of Thar!" for artillery pieces

The only solution for this is make the Gernails responsible to building a product according to the specs they themselves make up, end to end responsibility with them and not the DRDO or any other org

Like how Navy designs ships per their requirement, handles the import or co-development of weapons/subs-systems and gets one of the PSU shipbuilders to build the ships

This drama of them being "customer" with ever changing specs bullshit needs to stop

Hawkeye said:

Nah, any IDDM SPH product is worth more than scresdriver K9, no matter how much L&T try to show it as indigenous

Any company which is just screwdrivering and not trying to make anything of their own by learning from screwdrivering or maybe even reverse engineer things is just a scam in name of self reliance.
All these robo doggy and small drones you are seeing in army PR handles are mostly those Cos which need to be send to gulag for even having the gall to tell those products as IDDM.

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The problem is there won't be enough requirement for it in army for IDDM to start.
Like army's tracked SPG requirements are almost fullfilled by k9, so won't buy any more tracked spg's in large no.
What we can do is further indigenize k9 so that we won't need korea for replacement of parts for k9, developed advanced versions of parts of k9 to replace or modernise k9's in future Indeginously.

ArjunMK1A said:

View attachment 16166

Any chance this guy is coming back with ATAGS gun on turret. Since Arjun tank is nowhere to go and we can use the tank base to build this.

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No.. Fully armour tank hull doesn't fit well for SPG & use of such had been discontinued by everyone other than Russia. Hull ammo storage also can't be utilised. Better to have from engine & use while rear for storage.

Frag protection is enough for arty.

Ayan Barat said:

Virgin Murican MIC : GPS guided GBU-32, GBU-35, Laser guided GBU-16, Dual mode GBU-48 and even QuickStrike naval mine; all build around the same 1000lbs Mk-83 bomb.

Chad Indian PSU : Three different bombs for the same weight class.
View attachment 16117

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AFAIK the middle one is for massed dumb-bomb hit by Su-30 or Jags on large area targets & HSLD 450 is for accurate strikes with NG-LGB kit.

The 500kg one was experimental.

rone said:

guys need help Indian Gov getting targeted in a recent APT level attack try to report this domain as much as possible (domain still up)
https://email.gov.in.indiagov[.]ws/service/home/?auth=co&id=29238&filename=Ministry%20of%20Defence%20Report%20MoM&charset=UTF-8
View attachment 16118

mostly attacker looking gov for staff credentials, lure is thorough pdf document ( link to pdf analysis added)
https://hybrid-analysis.com/sample/...5b2dc4393311d4033f18558860a?environmentId=160

i posting this here becoz i already reported to gov entities but they are silent, and domain still not taken down, i hope u all do ur part.

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@haldilal @fire starter can use their twitter reach and tag Alpha defence or some semi-Sarkari Babus.


View: https://x.com/Cyberteam008/status/1859873457418432986

Azaad said:

That 25% additional weight is largely on account of the fact that the ATAGS use electric drives as opposed to hydraulic drives.

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Not exactly
An EM "actuator" is definitely heavier than a hydraulic "actuator" as it has everything from motor to lead screw to gear in it as opposed to the later one where you have just a sliding piston with few O-rings.

But if you compare the complete system then you'd have hydraulic oil, reservoirs, pump, motor, filters, multiple valves and heavy metal plumbings on one hand and on the other just the EM actuator hooked to the standard PSU. Ultimately the difference becomes not that significant.

One of the biggest reason why our systems generally weigh more is because we save cost by not "refining" something to its maximum potential.

Bleh said:

AFAIK the middle one is for massed dumb-bomb hit by Su-30 or Jags on large area targets & HSLD 450 is for accurate strikes with NG-LGB kit.

The 500kg one was experimental.

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Still makes absolutely no sense. The only scenario where having two separate bombs in same category makes sense is when you have a penetrating warhead. Then you can one traditional 500kg bomb with let's say 250kg high fragmentation cast iron body with 250kg explosive and another penetrating one with 350kg tool steel machined body with 150kg explosive.

Also this theory of one for guided and one for unguided is bit absurd because the middle one can very well be converted to guided one (as has already been done during Sudarshan R&D) and HSLD be used unguided (not to mention that fact that HSLD was made before PG-HSLD and even today way more dumb HSLD are in service than PG-HSLD)

As for the 500kg one being experimental, found an article

View: https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1860612553514054074

Lot of updates

Ayan Barat said:

Also this theory of one for guided and one for unguided is bit absurd because the middle one can very well be converted to guided one (as has already been done during Sudarshan R&D) and HSLD be used unguided (not to mention that fact that HSLD was made before PG-HSLD and even today way more dumb HSLD are in service than PG-HSLD)

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To you maybe.

I've asked around a lot regarding this during when I was helping Kuntal model the Tejas & Mark2... The HSLD is longer & doesn't fit Jaguar's tandem carrier. The old bombs will remain till remains in service, for massed groud-attack. Takes lesser space.


The HSLD is much lower drag & we use it in future. Currently lighter jet doing a bomb run with lesser payload uses it for efficiency. Such runs thus happen to be smaller target oriented


Sudarshan beard on the older bomb has been discarded because of same reasons, excessive drag & vibration at high speeds. Going ahead we'll be using either of the two below.

Nutcracker said:

@haldilal @fire starter can use their twitter reach and tag Alpha defence or some semi-Sarkari Babus.


View: https://x.com/Cyberteam008/status/1859873457418432986

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I found more of their same staging servers and infrastructure, 4 of them taken down more still waiting, there is also some lure urls in fake Indian domain url, I will make detailed thread on how to detect these kind of sphear phishing attacks early, and how can people like us prevent them to a certain point.

Nutcracker said:

These Jurnails think common man is stupid. This jurnail didn't tell viewers that being 25% heavy ATAGS also offer 25% higher range compared to ATHOS.
Also, a viewer asked if army needs lighter gun to shoot and scoot, Jurnail said "no, arty on mountains digs deep and doesn't move."

SO WOULDN'T IT BE SENSIBLE TO ORDER 20-25T towing truck(already in pipeline ig) and permanently settle the ATAGS with higher range. Still these Jurnails somehow open a backdoor for kikel companies.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PjRciy-GVLM&pp=ygUUU2hhbmthciBzbmVoZXNoIGFsZXg%3D

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This general is crazy, talking about Kargil. That they don't shoot and scoot.

In the Kargil documentary in a video I saw Pakistan firing back with their use of weapon locating radar and they pulled out the artillery.

In Kargil there were no drones at that time, if you don't shoot and scoot in today's warfare you are sitting duck.

I can understand the terrain logic but for that you need to create shooting pads.

If a 2 or 4 ton gypsy will collapse the road how is 12 ton TGS will make it up there, for those terrian you need ULH not TGS.

No wonder why in army it takes so long to induct something.

And his argument about KASL ULH is flawed, they gave the guns for user trails, if it's unproven then test it and induct it. Unproven gun is not excuse to never buy it.

Charlie said:

This general is crazy, talking about Kargil. That they don't shoot and scoot.

In the Kargil documentary in a video I saw Pakistan firing back with their use of weapon locating radar and they pulled out the artillery.

In Kargil there were no drones at that time, if you don't shoot and scoot in today's warfare you are sitting duck.

I can understand the terrain logic but for that you need to create shooting pads.

If a 2 or 4 ton gypsy will collapse the road how is 12 ton TGS will make it up there, for those terrian you need ULH not TGS.

No wonder why in army it takes so long to induct something.

And his argument about KASL ULH is flawed, they gave the guns for user trails, if it's unproven then test it and induct it. Unproven gun is not excuse to never buy it.

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I think it's pretty evident our generals are operating with an antiquated mindset or at any rate it's a pre Ukraine mindset . If regular artillery isn't going to cut it with mobility being an issue then mounting ULH on a vehicle should be explored.

If there are limitations on range due to the calibre & mobility is still an issue then we should be exploring long range rockets on reverse slopes . Unfortunately the pace of development here too is glacial.