Combat Air-Teaming System (CATS) (2 Viewers)

[FalconSlayers]

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1937788282160689337?t=mLyx9NKftMyfLMn7rrgpoQ&s=19

I don't think so it is as easy as it sounds.
@Arihant Roy



Better would be focussing on HTFE-25 based HALE UCAV which can act as an autonomous aerial combat platform. Although non-expendable.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Well, is it normal since prototype rollout in January this year? They're yet to do the taxi trials, or if they did haven't released any media or press release for it.

 

[jaijaganath]

Well, is it normal since prototype rollout in January this year? They're yet to do the taxi trials, or if they did haven't released any media or press release for it.
View attachment 42042

Source?

 

[liberalredditor]

Well, is it normal since prototype rollout in January this year? They're yet to do the taxi trials, or if they did haven't released any media or press release for it.
View attachment 42042

I think he means to say about the larger htfe 25 variant, if its about the ptae version then hal is truly beyond fooked, 2 quarters passed and still no info on engine start trials, no low speed taxi, high speed taxi, and then we hoped for 2026 first flight. But still they wont start bulk hiring and investment in r&d nor he MoD do belt treatment.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

I don't think so it is as easy as it sounds.
@Arihant Roy



Better would be focussing on HTFE-25 based HALE UCAV which can act as an autonomous aerial combat platform. Although non-expendable.

why has everone forgotten about STFE manik, if has higher thrust, smaller size, better fuel efficiency, higher engine life and most importantly can be uprated rather easily by sacrificing a bit of SFC and even then It will always be a better choice than those fuel guzzling PTAE 7 engines (0.8 vs 1.2 kg/hr/kgf)

 

[FalconSlayers]

why has everone forgotten about STFE manik, if has higher thrust, smaller size, better fuel efficiency, higher engine life and most importantly can be uprated rather easily by sacrificing a bit of SFC and even then It will always be a better choice than those fuel guzzling PTAE 7 engines (0.8 vs 1.2 kg/kr/kgf)
View attachment 42049

Manik was made for Nirbhay cruise missile, you need stats for it's MTBO to compare both. GTRE's Manik is a single use turbofan engine, comparable to HAL's PTAE-7 turbojet which was made for target drones. PTAE-W is a modified version with FADEC controls and other enhancements made for flying reusable aircrafts instead of missiles and loitering munitions.

I think he means to say about the larger htfe 25 variant, if its about the ptae version then hal is truly beyond fooked, 2 quarters passed and still no info on engine start trials, no low speed taxi, high speed taxi, and then we hoped for 2026 first flight. But still they wont start bulk hiring and investment in r&d nor he MoD do belt treatment.

Engine run trials were done on the first day. They didn't really tweet about prototype rollout and only tweeted when they did the engine run, so I would love to dream that they have done a bit taxi trials and just haven't released it's info, like it happened with SWiFT drone.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Manik was made for Nirbhay cruise missile, you need stats for it's MTBO to compare both. GTRE's Manik is a single use turbofan engine, comparable to HAL's PTAE-7 turbojet which was made for target drones. PTAE-W is a modified version with FADEC controls and other enhancements made for flying reusable aircrafts instead of missiles and loitering munitions.

Engine run trials were done on the first day. They didn't really tweet about prototype rollout and only tweeted when they did the engine run, so I would love to dream that they have done a bit taxi trials and just haven't released it's info, like it happened with SWiFT drone.

• MTBO of a turbofan will always be better than of a turbojet, I highly doubt even enhanced PTAE W has better MTBO than vanilla Manik Engine. infact the enhancements done on PTAE W will bear better results if done on Manik,
• PTAE W had to be modified with a FADEC where as Manik comes with a FADEC from Day 1
• Also STFE Manik was not solely made for Cruise missiles, It can also be used by UAV (as highlighted in the brochure), what do you think will power the Swift UCAV

 

[FalconSlayers]

Swift UCAV

SWiFT UCAV is not going to see service. It is a sub-scale prototype for larger Ghatak UCAV. It's payload capacity is 2x50kg, and that too external. There were reports of a Kamikaze version being made, but I don't see it's utility much. Also, costs might be another reason, as turbojets are cheaper than turbofans. Another factor is mass, Manik weighs 110kg while PTAE-W weighs 84kg at max.





STFE Manik will be useful for creating our own HALE UCAVs instead of loyal wingman.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

SWiFT UCAV is not going to see service.

There were reports of a Kamikaze version being made

you are contradicting yourselves,

Also, costs might be another reason, as turbojets are cheaper than turbofans.

Not necessarily true, overall lifetime cost of turbojet will always be higher than that of turbofans,
turbojets are cheaper for one time use because you don't have to care about MTBO but for repeated use turbofans will always be better, not to mention the "enhancements" needed to make PTAE W work will inevitably increase its cost

Another factor is mass, Manik weighs 110kg while PTAE-W weighs 84kg at max.

Whatever Manik loses in Dry weight it more than makes up for it in SFC, if mere 30 kg can give you a 50% boost in fuel efficiency then its a bloody great compromise to make

STFE Manik will be useful for creating our own HALE UCAVs instead of loyal wingman.

Saar if STFE can power a WZ 10 equivalent then it will 1000% have a better utility powering loyal wingmans, you can't have it both ways

 

[FalconSlayers]

Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle (UCAV) Airframe assembly design and engineering

Discover how Tata Elxsi helped in design and Development of Airframe assembly and landing gear components of the Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle (UCAV), CATS WARRIOR.

www.tataelxsi.com

The CATS Warrior, a flagship initiative by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), is set to revolutionize aerial combat. Designed as a loyal wingman within the Combat Air Teaming system (CATS), the CATS Warrior seamlessly collaborates with the LCA mothership, taking on high-risk missions such as strike, surveillance, reconnaissance, electronic warfare, decoy operations, and swarm attacks. Its advanced Autonomous Take-off and Landing (ATOL) capabilities, combined with a low-observable profile, make it an invaluable asset for complex combat environments, reducing the risk to human pilots.

Tata Elxsi proudly partnered with HAL in this groundbreaking venture, contributing to the design, engineering, and fabrication of the airframe assembly, fuel storage system, and landing gear for the full-scale CATS Warrior demonstrator. By combining our aerospace engineering expertise with HAL's deep aviation legacy, we developed a solution that not only met but exceeded the performance criteria, helping create a full-scale demonstrator in record time eventually lead in compressed timelines of the actual product development.

The CATS Warrior is approaching its first flight by 2026, following extensive ground testing and upcoming low-speed taxi trials. Having delivered the demonstrator, Tata elxsi has been entrusted with the task of design, development and installation of fuselage assembly jigs for the flying prototypes of CATS Warrior.