DRDO and PSU's

[ezsasa]

What has happened to these Govt PSU?? Why suddenly posting these worth less updates??

Making a mockery of themselves and us Indian on Twitter!!​

not just govt PSUs, all central govt offices have been doing it since swach Bharat abhiyan started. in govt system, photo ops are considered documentary evidence that something has happened. it so happens that this forum watches only defence related events, so the campaign looks out of place. even MEA offices have been carrying out this campaign every year.

in 2024, it reached a stage where most of the photos are about sweeping, earlier it used to be about mountains of files.

Transforming govt workplaces: Impact of special campaigns in achieving the Swachch Bharat vision - ET Government

QCI's Special Campaign Project Management Unit: The rapid review and disposal of old files were facilitated by the government's commitment to Digital India and the transition to a Digital Secretariat. A pivotal driver of progress has been the widespread implementation of e-Office, bringing...

government.economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[TopWatcher]

It is under NTRO.


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1844273988215947745?t=6q4qbdr4nqJcERsrdJxfcw&s=19

What is OTH radar ??

 

[Anants]

What is OTH radar ??

over the horizon radar

 

[Patriots]

O

What is OTH radar ??

Over the horrizon

 

[Anants]

Enjaay Faalks .. @ezsasa @Azaad @shade2 @Vishnugupt and @mist_consecutive


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7dr7HWbfg

 

[Patriots]

View: https://x.com/bharataputra108/status/1844086957032472795/video/1

 

[ezsasa]

Enjaay Faalks .. @ezsasa @Azaad @shade2 @Vishnugupt and @mist_consecutive


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7dr7HWbfg

yes, when we were discussing BOSS and open source softwares at the old forum, after the initial euphoria faded(including mine), the conclusion was that financials and usage metrics do not allow for constant upgrades and trouble shooting that a COTS OS/software can provide in daily usage.

may be this question can be relooked 5-10 years later, when financials allow for it.

 

[Anants]

yes, when we were discussing BOSS and open source softwares at the old forum, after the initial euphoria faded(including mine), the conclusion was that financials and usage metrics do not allow for constant upgrades and trouble shooting that a COTS OS/software can provide in daily usage.

may be this question can be relooked 5-10 years later, when financials allow for it.

yep

but look at Lt Col Rajan . He could not believe that they fooled even the Lt Gen Hooda. It seems a good podcast.

​

 

[Tridev123]

It is under NTRO.


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1844273988215947745?t=6q4qbdr4nqJcERsrdJxfcw&s=19

Can a OTH radar be jammed electronically.
The emitting radar station could be as far as 1500 kms away.
I guess an OTH radar requires a lot of space and is much bigger than normal radar stations.
It would not be a mobile station??.
It would be nice if someone can add a few pics of OTH radars of other countries.

If it's location can be triangulated than a medium range ballistic missile with the appropriate sensors can theoretically be launched to destroy it.
Or is the task not that simple.

As far as the China front is concerned will the Himalayas interfere with it's functioning.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Can a OTH radar be jammed electronically.
The emitting radar station could be as far as 1500 kms away.

From that long range ? with what ? power of the sun ? portable nuclear reactor in low earth orbit ? The power required to jam a radar like that even from 50km away will take a convoy of power cars. Best you can do is deceive the radar somewhat with false positives and decoy signals.

 

[Tridev123]

From that long range ? with what ? power of the sun ? portable nuclear reactor in low earth orbit ? The power required to jam a radar like that even from 50km away will take a convoy of power cars. Best you can do is deceive the radar somewhat with false positives and decoy signals.

Calm down.
The sentence started with a 'can'
Basically inviting suggestions which are technically feasible.

No need to go hyper.
An low orbit satellite with sufficient high power jammers can be manuvoured using onnoard thrusters to be positioned almost directly above the radar station and the electronic jamming can be attempted.

These are only possibilities.

Or is an OTH radar totally immune to jamming?.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Calm down.
The sentence started with a 'can'
Basically inviting suggestions which are technically feasible.

No need to go hyper.
An low orbit satellite with sufficient high power jammers can be manuvoured using onnoard thrusters to be positioned almost directly above the radar station and the electronic jamming can be attempted.

These are only possibilities.

Or is an OTH radar totally immune to jamming?.

You simply need ridiculous amount of power in your jammer to overpower a big OTH radar. Further away your jammer is, even more power you need. Even a military sat with a plutonium battery isn't powerful enough to jam a radar this size. You can attempt, but the ground radar is emitting so much power, it'll "brute force" it's way through the long range jamming. You can fool any radar with decoys however.

 

[strat]

View: https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1843583414882226522

Inko koi farak nahi padta

shhhh, tejas mk2 par legegi ye chair

 

[Tridev123]

You simply need ridiculous amount of power in your jammer to overpower a big OTH radar. Further away your jammer is, even more power you need. Even a military sat with a plutonium battery isn't powerful enough to jam a radar this size. You can attempt, but the ground radar is emitting so much power, it'll "brute force" it's way through the long range jamming. You can fool any radar with decoys however.

Can you support your arguments with international technical citations.
The OTH radar concept and its development was first attempted by the United States.
The technology has matured to quite an extent.
It is more than 2 decades old.Correct me if I have erred.
I am sure that they would have research papers on this technology.

Your arguments backed by solid physics calculations would be more credible.

For the benefit of other members
What is the average power output of OTH radars.
How much energy does it emit.
Please quote actual numbers.

I am asking you because you seem to be an expert on radar technology.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Or is an OTH radar totally immune to jamming?.

> Yes, as they're always fixed in place it's very easy to target them using even simple loitering munition, let alone ballistic missiles. But it's well defended.
Just like all other fixed military assets like AFBs.

> They can need up to 10MW of powers so theoretically they can be made mobile but it would be extremely unfeasible

> Just like it need extreme power to reach ionosphere, then reflect back all while having enough power to compensate for attenuation...your jammer would also need to deal with all these. So jamming becomes bit tough

> But there are ways in which they can be somewhat countered. A good number of high altitude balloons coated in radar reflective material would work the same way aircrafts use chaff to deceive radar guided missiles.

> Another bit complicated way is to "tamper" with the ionosphere.

In theory you can shoot a high powered RF or microwave beam (the dashed line) to the approximate point where it's getting reflected and change the charge of the ionosphere. This would cause the OTH's beams to reflect erratically.

 

[Tridev123]

You have done some research and quoted numbers.I assume that your figures are authentic.

I wanted to initiate an discussion on this technology. Appreciate your contribution.

OTH radars have obscene detection ranges, sometimes even working at 2000kms.

But I believe that they cannot provide accurate targeting solutions. Pinpoint the location of flying objects.

Your suggestions to neutralize OTH radars are welcome.
I would like to add one more suggestion.
Will a detonation of a very low yield neutron bomb in the ionosphere covering the area of interest put the OTH radar out of operation for a short time.
A very low yield neutron bomb mainly releases high energy charged particles which will interact with the ionosphere and temporarily disperse it.

This is only a possible method to disrupt the functioning of an OTH which depends on the ionosphere for it's successful operation.

There is a danger of radiation but during war certain extreme measures are condoned.

 

[Ayan Barat]

But I believe that they cannot provide accurate targeting solutions. Pinpoint the location of flying objects.

Yup, that's pretty much all in radar 101.

Long boi waves = longer range but poor resolution
Smol waves = shorter range but high resolution

So the only way to use a longer wavelength radar for target engagement is to send a missile with active radar in the vague location of the target and then the on board seeker of missile does its job.

Your suggestions to neutralize OTH radars are welcome.
I would like to add one more suggestion.
Will a detonation of a very low yield neutron bomb in the ionosphere covering the area of interest put the OTH radar out of operation for a short time.
A very low yield neutron bomb mainly releases high energy charged particles which will interact with the ionosphere and temporarily disperse it.

Again...possible but not feasible.

There are targets that are considered "equivalent to nuclear attack" like the Three Gorges Dam in China. So even if you attack them with conventional weapon, that country would perceive it as a nuclear attack.

And here you're using a nuclear device. No matter how safe of a neutron bomb or how much miligram TNT equivalent bomb you use...my guy, you would be paying quite a spectacular price for jamming just one OTH radar.

 

[Tridev123]

Yup, that's pretty much all in radar 101.

Long boi waves = longer range but poor resolution
Smol waves = shorter range but high resolution

So the only way to use a longer wavelength radar for target engagement is to send a missile with active radar in the vague location of the target and then the on board seeker of missile does its job.

Again...possible but not feasible.

There are targets that are considered "equivalent to nuclear attack" like the Three Gorges Dam in China. So even if you attack them with conventional weapon, that country would perceive it as a nuclear attack.

And here you're using a nuclear device. No matter how safe of a neutron bomb or how much miligram TNT equivalent bomb you use...my guy, you would be paying quite a spectacular price for jamming just one OTH radar.

Yes,there is a risk of escalation if a nuclear device is used.
But, then the detonation would be outside the concerned country's Airspace.
Maybe the chances of escalation are 50-50.
We need to calculate the gains vs risks.

Any idea where are the Chinese OTH radars are located.
Do they have one on the Tibetan plateau.

Where is our(NTRO) OTH located.
How many OTH radars do we have.

Funny thing is we don't need an OTH to cover Pakistani Airspace. Their country has insignificant depth.

China is a different kind of beast.

 

[Ayan Barat]

But, then the detonation would be outside the concerned country's Airspace.

Even the perceived threat of a nuclear fallout is considered enough for a nuclear retaliation. This is one of the biggest reason why Russia is so hesitant to use even a tactical nuclear weapon around NATO countries.

Any idea where are the Chinese OTH radars are located.
Do they have one on the Tibetan plateau.

Okay, so listen carefully
Write a mail to info.nia@gov.in asking them to patch you up with someone from R&AW. Then he or she will answer this

Where is our(NTRO) OTH located.
How many OTH radars do we have.

As for our information, I'd recommend good ol IAF
01123010400

 

[Tridev123]

Even the perceived threat of a nuclear fallout is considered enough for a nuclear retaliation. This is one of the biggest reason why Russia is so hesitant to use even a tactical nuclear weapon around NATO countries.

Okay, so listen carefully
Write a mail to info.nia@gov.in asking them to patch you up with someone from R&AW. Then he or she will answer this

As for our information, I'd recommend good ol IAF
01123010400

A witty reply.
ROFL.

But, seriously with so many remote sensing satellites covering earth.
Nowadays nothing is totally secret.
Google Earth is just one provider of satellite imagery.
It is not totally impractical that satellite photos of OTH radar sites in China and India are available in the public domain. After all the radars have to be over ground and not underground.
I assumed that you might have seen such pics.