DRDO and PSU's

[Azaad]

It's an 1t class UAV
The landing gears used on it are bigger and bulkier than they need to be because Stealth Wing Flying Testbed...so they'll eat up more weight than normal
Powered by Saturn 36MT with an installed weight of 100kg
It produces a maximum thrust of 450kgf with specific fuel consumption of 0.71kg/kgf*hr; so for half an hour you'd need approximately 160kg of fuel
Assuming the vehicle...heck it, koi insaan subah se shaam kitna hi hisaab kare.
Here's an ADE poster with both the range and payload
View attachment 13116

Why should it remain restricted to 1 ton ? They can create a whole family of stealth UAVs of 1-5 tons & beyond for different roles

 

[Ayan Barat]

They can

We can have 270 AMCAs as a direct replacement of Su-30MkI, 36 more can be converted into dedicated EW platform with two seats, we can add arrestor gear and make N-AMCA...
This is can
"...one of the main reasons behind the delay in Tejas's delivery has been GE's failure to stick to the contract..."
This is is

And there's a bit difference between them

what exactly would be the use case

This was my very first question.
What exactly are we looking for? A stealth loitering munition, a wingman, an ISR platform because in current configuration it's just a stealth flying wing UAV that can fire two ATGMs...and it doesn't make any sense.

We can definitely make a 5t SWIFT but won't then we'd be moving away from SWIFT and inching closer to Ghatak? End of the day SWIFT is just a testbed so that we can have Ghatak. Nowhere it's mentioned that what kind of configuration or increased MTOW SWIFT we're talking about.

This whole discourse is like if someone sees the 757 Catfish and then proceeds to say that it already has the best avionics, radars, electro-optics; so why don't we just strap 10 AMRAAMs to it?

 

[Azaad]

We can have 270 AMCAs as a direct replacement of Su-30MkI, 36 more can be converted into dedicated EW platform with two seats, we can add arrestor gear and make N-AMCA...

Well in the event we aren't having 270 AMCAs but somewhere around 120 including both Mk-1 & Mk-2 or at least those are the projected numbers. MKIs are expected to last into the late 2050s & in all likelihood will be replaced by the 6th Gen FA project which'd hopefully commence in the 2030s with a study project.

There's not going to be any proposed N-AMCA just as there's not going to be any proposed ORCA. All we've is the TEDBF & AMCA.

This is can
"...one of the main reasons behind the delay in Tejas's delivery has been GE's failure to stick to the contract..."
This is is

And there's a bit difference between them

Don't see how's this related to the various versions of the proposed Ghatak . It you're trying to propose some analogy it's gone over my head.

This was my very first question.
What exactly are we looking for? A stealth loitering munition, a wingman, an ISR platform because in current configuration it's just a stealth flying wing UAV that can fire two ATGMs...and it doesn't make any sense.

I'm sure once the ADE / DRDO sits down with the services they can thrash out in what roles these models in various weight classes can be deployed.

We can definitely make a 5t SWIFT but won't then we'd be moving away from SWIFT and inching closer to Ghatak? End of the day SWIFT is just a testbed so that we can have Ghatak. Nowhere it's mentioned that what kind of configuration or increased MTOW SWIFT we're talking about.

We can have our own Akinci in the 5.5 Ton capacity & that too a stealth model which the Akinci isn't. We could use it or dedicate it for purely export purposes or pursue both options.

This whole discourse is like if someone sees the 757 Catfish and then proceeds to say that it already has the best avionics, radars, electro-optics; so why don't we just strap 10 AMRAAMs to it?
View attachment 13121

Because that's a flying FTB based on a slow flying passenger jet that's neither fish nor fowl.

 

[NerVik]

View attachment 13092

Cleanest looking thing we have produced till date. I hope the full scale version does justice to this

 

[Ayan Barat]

Don't see how's this related to the various versions of the proposed Ghatak .

But sadly as of now there's no various versions of the proposed Ghatak Sir.
It's all about SWIFT...the 1t, 250km, 100kg payload proof of concept thing.

It you're trying to propose some analogy it's gone over my head.

Ya, I can also feel that.
The analogy is the theoretical potential of something Vs the actual reality.
Like having hundreds of Nishant Vs zero.
Or 42 squadrons Vs 32.
Or fight tooth and nail to get Tejas Mk2 as fast as possible Vs still toying with MMRCA/MRFA.
Or integrating ATGMs on Prachand in less than a month as it's based on Rudra architecture which already has proven ATGM capability Vs still having 70mm rockets as the only anti-armour weapon.

Or as in this case; multiple potential variants of "Ghatak" Vs the actual thing; SWIFT...the 1t, 250km, 100kg payload proof of concept thing.

these models

Again, "these models" are just SWIFT...that same 1t, 250km, 100kg payload proof of concept thing.

Akinci in the 5.5 Ton capacity & that too a stealth model which the Akinci isn't

Akinci!?
Maybe because it was never planned to be stealth as it was always supposed to be used either in COIN or strictly anti-armour/anti-SHORAD in LSCO.

Ice-cream guys have Anka-3

They already have a "Ghatak" and above everything, it's already flying

export

The current configuration of SWIFT...yup, again that 1t, 250km, 100kg payload proof of concept thing is more or less what's the only thing you can have for export.

Or otherwise you'd be breaching the 300km/500kg/Mach 0.65 threshold of MTCR.

Because that's a flying FTB based on a slow flying passenger jet that's neither fish nor fowl.

See, now you're getting my point. FTB
That SWIFT is also just a FTB in its current configuration and as of now there's no mention of any new platform halfway between SWIFT and Ghatak.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

View: https://x.com/Firezstarter1/status/1849208406948589973
@fire starter bro, giving knowledge to people who are not knowledgeable regarding radars.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

Project Khusha and S-400 Batteries will talk to each other and Coordinate Interceptions. – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

I have a bad feeling that this thing too will go into perpetual testing mode without induction but let's hope for best.

 

[Azaad]

But sadly as of now there's no various versions of the proposed Ghatak Sir.
It's all about SWIFT...the 1t, 250km, 100kg payload proof of concept thing.

As of now , yes. The idea would be the explore possibilities of the SWIFT as in upscaled versions & later the Ghatak. At least you've a proof of concept in the SWIFT .

Ya, I can also feel that.
The analogy is the theoretical potential of something Vs the actual reality.
Like having hundreds of Nishant Vs zero.
Or 42 squadrons Vs 32.
Or fight tooth and nail to get Tejas Mk2 as fast as possible Vs still toying with MMRCA/MRFA.
Or integrating ATGMs on Prachand in less than a month as it's based on Rudra architecture which already has proven ATGM capability Vs still having 70mm rockets as the only anti-armour weapon.

Or as in this case; multiple potential variants of "Ghatak" Vs the actual thing; SWIFT...the 1t, 250km, 100kg payload proof of concept thing.

Well in case you haven't noticed much of the discussions on this forum revolves around possibilities exclusively . The others tend to be around venting out. Which one does yours fall under ?

Again, "these models" are just SWIFT...that same 1t, 250km, 100kg payload proof of concept thing.

Akinci!?
Maybe because it was never planned to be stealth as it was always supposed to be used either in COIN or strictly anti-armour/anti-SHORAD in LSCO.

Ice-cream guys have Anka-3
View attachment 13123
They already have a "Ghatak" and above everything, it's already flying

Bingo. So they've done it. We've yet to . However in our case there's a project being developed which may not be the case with many countries out there stuck as they are in the intent phase of which we've already realised a PoC .

Turks on the other hand have a well chalked out program , something we could take lessons from. That's my larger point.

The current configuration of SWIFT...yup, again that 1t, 250km, 100kg payload proof of concept thing is more or less what's the only thing you can have for export.

Right now there are preliminary discussions on how would this platform be deployed to meet certain roles internally. Once that is thrashed out we could go on to discuss other possibilities including exports.

Or otherwise you'd be breaching the 300km/500kg/Mach 0.65 threshold of MTCR.

Could you elaborate on it ?

See, now you're getting my point. FTB
That SWIFT is also just a FTB in its current configuration and as of now there's no mention of any new platform halfway between SWIFT and Ghatak.

As of now ...

 

[Ayan Barat]

Which one does yours fall under ?

Well personally I like to count myself in the third group...

an AR-15 pistol grip I had designed

It's very small here but it exists.

Could you elaborate on it ?

Anything that can fly beyond Mach 0.65 should not have a range more than 300km and payload more than 500kg if it wants to get marketed globally (even in ToT form) otherwise it would violate the terms of Missile Technology Control Regime.

This is the reason why BrahMos had a range of just 290km when the dimensionally same P-800 Oniks has upto 800km range. We got the ToT with smaller fuel tanks to comply with MTCR and later replaced them in-house.

-------------​

Continuing on this SWIFT thing, let me touch a point that has kept intriguing me for a quite a while. This one

The landing gears used on it are bigger and bulkier than they need to be

Compared to all other contemporaries and worth mentioning that all other are full sized as opposed to scaled down, the landing gears on SWIFT feels humongous. Here's a collage for comparison

My leading theory is that it was designed by some Satbir from Gurgaon who wanted to do gedi in it so just slapped some Thar tyres.

The next theory is that they might be using Ghatak's landing gears on it with minimal modifications to certify them so that they can simply plug-n-play as soon as Ghatak gets ready instead of making a scaled-up iteration. If this is indeed true then it reinforces the point that SWIFT is not a "real" UCAV rather just a makeshift FTB to certify things like avionics, landing gears, control logics that we currently have instead of waiting for things like engine, geometrically optimised airframe and RAM to get finalised first.

 

[Azaad]

Well personally I like to count myself in the third group...

It's very small here but it exists.

Anything that can fly beyond Mach 0.65 should not have a range more than 300km and payload more than 500kg if it wants to get marketed globally (even in ToT form) otherwise it would violate the terms of Missile Technology Control Regime.

Which sort of completely explains why all those countries exporting drones like Turkey does the Bayrakhtar & Akinci or China does the Wing Loong 2 to Paxtan.

This is the reason why BrahMos had a range of just 290km when the dimensionally same P-800 Oniks has upto 800km range. We got the ToT with smaller fuel tanks to comply with MTCR and later replaced them in-house.

-------------​

Continuing on this SWIFT thing, let me touch a point that has kept intriguing me for a quite a while. This one

Compared to all other contemporaries and worth mentioning that all other are full sized as opposed to scaled down, the landing gears on SWIFT feels humongous. Here's a collage for comparison
View attachment 13132
My leading theory is that it was designed by some Satbir from Gurgaon who wanted to do gedi in it so just slapped some Thar tyres.

The next theory is that they might be using Ghatak's landing gears on it with minimal modifications to certify them so that they can simply plug-n-play as soon as Ghatak gets ready instead of making a scaled-up iteration. If this is indeed true then it reinforces the point that SWIFT is not a "real" UCAV rather just a makeshift FTB to certify things like avionics, landing gears, control logics that we currently have instead of waiting for things like engine, geometrically optimised airframe and RAM to get finalised first.

Quite obviously it'd be your last theory isn't it.

 

[Anants]

My leading theory is that it was designed by some Satbir from Gurgaon who wanted to do gedi in it so just slapped some Thar tyres.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Which sort of completely explains why all those countries exporting drones like Turkey does the Bayrakhtar & Akinci or China does the Wing Loong 2 to Paxtan.

If you're going that tangent then why not MQ-9 sale to India?

Now coming to actual technicalities
> China is not a member of MTCR so it gives zero Fs
> As for Akinci, yup it definitely crosses the MTCR threshold of 500kg payload (1,300kg) and 300km range (7,500km) but perhaps most importantly it's speed is just 0.3 Mach.
Unless and until a platform crosses 0.6 Mach it's not even considered for MTCR evaluation

 

[Azaad]

If you're going that tangent then why not MQ-9 sale to India?

Both India & the US are members of the MTCR

Now coming to actual technicalities
> China is not a member of MTCR so it gives zero Fs

Not for want of trying . Apparently as of now it's India blocking Chinese attempts at getting in for denying India entry into the NSG.

> As for Akinci, yup it definitely crosses the MTCR threshold of 500kg payload (1,300kg) and 300km range (7,500km) but perhaps most importantly it's speed is just 0.3 Mach.
Unless and until a platform crosses 0.6 Mach it's not even considered for MTCR evaluation

So. , tweak a parameter here or there & Bob's your uncle. With no means to monitor future upgrades , we'd be in the dark till the day of reckoning precisely like how the F-16s have been prescribed a purely defensive role by the US when selling it to Paxtan who've also deployed a full team there to monitor its activities in spite of which it was utilised in Operation Swift Retort.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1849303191508197820

 

[jaijaganath]

View: https://x.com/amanroutray7/status/1849164752788005177

Before people start commenting according to AD it is wrt altgs and has no relation with atags orders

 

[fire starter]

Drdo Miniaturized Atomic Magnetometer and Miniaturized Atomic Clock.

 

[Patriots]

View: https://x.com/singhshwetabh71/status/1849478077228749262

 

[Cyclops]

View: https://x.com/amanroutray7/status/1849164752788005177

Before people start commenting according to AD it is wrt altgs and has no relation with atags orders

Correct me if I'm wrong but last I heard, only the AoN for ATAGS has passed through and no orders. None of us want another Arjun fiasco(IA-"...me want light weapons, gibs light weapon..."), because this time our private cos will be left hanging and not our DPSUs that don't really care much about absorbing losses.

IA is dilly-dallying when they should have already pushed for ordering the 307 ATAGS.

 

[Bhaubai]

View: https://x.com/MazagonDockLtd/status/1849680502464151844?t=WcvUyhoUqPGxJuy35dXl0A&s=19

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

GRSE Delivers First-Ever Double Lane Portable Steel Bridge for BRO – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

This ATAGS is heavy joke should had been debunked so many times by now.
Another ongoing proof is this.