DRDO and PSUs

[johny_baba]

But the capability addition you have with atags is unmatchable. Hitting 48km with base bleed which will go even further in mountains is worth it to buy towing vehicles capable of towing 18.tons.
Imagine it would hit at 60km (as per former tasl ceo) in high altitudes so it wouldn't be require to deploy that away.
this is just an excuse and how much will a. Truck cost ? Not as much as artillery. And atags doesn't cost as much as m777 you know it's fairly competitive this is just an excuse not a genuine reason. Even the bridge limitation thing comes out true we should still induct atags in good number as we don't have to fight only in mountains.

in past during very first 155mm howitzer tender in '80s, British-German-Italian FH-70 was not seen with much faith by the armed forces because the version we were offered didn't have APU on it (later versions have it though), and in compensation, they were willing to provide german MAN towing trucks with each howitzer purchased for no money

it's also a thing that FH-70 didn't prove much mettle in trials too, so never got a chance here (also, being a tri-national project)

so mobility is indeed valued by armed forces here, but if they really wanted ~15 tons howitzers, then Bharat-52 is already there, no? oh right, it's made by Baba Kalyani so...

To sums up well who is at fault.

Army gave comic verse requirements with weight limit of 15 tons which isn't possible. That being said if they continued to work along with weight going up means they assured orders as those comic verse features were given priority over weight increase,otherwise program would have been shut down and new system would have been made to meet 15ton requirements that didn't happen.

And now we got 307 orders.

were ok with electric drive & weight increase for this long then why all of sudden realised under 15ton requirement is must if this was must a parallel program to the atags should have been started way back, addressing both comic verse requirements and the weight thing too but that didn't happen either.

So yeah here we are in a limbo our system is dumb asf. Sheer incompetence and nothing and now they want athos like there isn't bharat 52.
forget dhanush if they can't deliver on time.

bhai i personally believe it's metallurgical requirements at design side to tolerate the kind of ammo we use here for our howitzers

do note, that FH-77B offered to us had shown damage to the gun as well as poor range on its standard configuration that we trialled for first time - then Swedish goys repeatedly offered better ammo for it with which it was able to receive ~30 km range on their fork of ERFB ammo - and since it was first time ever we were getting a 155mm NATO howitzer perhaps those kind of ammo got standardised here that required strengthened parts and all? that in turn required more metal on it, making it a heavier thing ?
FH-77B in 155mm / 39 Cal itself was ~13.1 tons heavy, now if we're going to expand on same design with 52 Cal design it's obvious that it'd further go up in mass...

we need some deep inputs about its metallurgical aspects in view with mass/weight to better evaluate it here

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

some generic gyan from my side..

like every other high value turnkey engineering project, this entire episode will look silly once process and all round multi-domain expertise gets established within the system.

both IA and DRDO, for them to get from here

View attachment 28345

to here

View attachment 28346

they will have to go thru the grind of learning from mistakes.

I think somebody needs to held accountable even retired one's.

If they wanted a all electric drive, a bigger chamber for longer range. In order to manage increase in recoil a stronger and heavier recoild mechanism was needed. So this resulted in overall weight increase. While an important thing mention arty dg had already put 12-15 ton requirements for atags but as I said earlier it was met and wast possible with the features they wanted.
Now I suppose those top brass know basic engineering that after certain limit weight can't be reduced if this features had to be retained.
They can't overcome this simple problem. Either retain this features or start a parallel program with smaller chamber, hydraulic drive , lighter recoild mechanism while retaining as many part commonality as possible between atags & lighter 15t gun. But they want athos for this role and bharat 52 , bharat ulh ti/steel doesn't exists.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

in past during very first 155mm howitzer tender in '80s, British-German-Italian FH-70 was not seen with much faith by the armed forces because the version we were offered didn't have APU on it (later versions have it though), and in compensation, they were willing to provide german MAN towing trucks with each howitzer purchased for no money

it's also a thing that FH-70 didn't prove much mettle in trials too, so never got a chance here (also, being a tri-national project)

so mobility is indeed valued by armed forces here, but if they really wanted ~15 tons howitzers, then Bharat-52 is already there, no? oh right, it's made by Baba Kalyani so...

bhai i personally believe it's metallurgical requirements at design side to tolerate the kind of ammo we use here for our howitzers

You mean that given our adverse conditions the system requires greater use of metal making it heavier. Shed some light on this aspect

do note, that FH-77B offered to us had shown damage to the gun as well as poor range on its standard configuration that we trialled for first time - then Swedish goys repeatedly offered better ammo for it with which it was able to receive ~30 km range on their fork of ERFB ammo - and since it was first time ever we were getting a 155mm NATO howitzer perhaps those kind of ammo got standardised here that required strengthened parts and all? that in turn required more metal on it, making it a heavier thing ?
FH-77B in 155mm / 39 Cal itself was ~13.1 tons heavy, now if we're going to expand on same design with 52 Cal design it's obvious that it'd further go up in mass...

we need some deep inputs about its metallurgical aspects in view with mass/weight to better evaluate it here

I think weight increase is because of the chamber size, all electric drive train, and the recoil management system. If bf can make bharat 52 below 15 tons the altags without above features would weight 13-14 tons.
Had metallurgical issue been there we would have heard abt it in media.

 

[johny_baba]

that's strange...i was able to, still can, read it...just fine? is it because i still use outdated as hell chini smartphone from 2018 era with equally outdated browser on my side that's perhaps messing with these paywallers' algorithms lol ?

here is pdf i made

@Satish Sharma Ji read this attached pdf on this post

 

[ezsasa]

I think somebody needs to held accountable even retired one's.

If they wanted a all electric drive, a bigger chamber for longer range. In order to manage increase in recoil a stronger and heavier recoild mechanism was needed. So this resulted in overall weight increase. While an important thing mention arty dg had already put 12-15 ton requirements for atags but as I said earlier it was met and wast possible with the features they wanted.
Now I suppose those top brass know basic engineering that after certain limit weight can't be reduced if this features had to be retained.
They can't overcome this simple problem. Either retain this features or start a parallel program with smaller chamber, hydraulic drive , lighter recoild mechanism while retaining as many part commonality as possible between atags & lighter 15t gun. But they want athos for this role and bharat 52 , bharat ulh ti/steel doesn't exists.

while everyone is obsessing over weight and electric drive, largely because that is the piece of info that has come out these past few years. from my perspective, the trials seems to have certified most of the other components that make up the entirety of the ATAGS equipment for it for fire all rounds required for trials to complete, inspite of that burst barrel incident, which is good.

longtime back i had written a post, on how forces, DRDO and at that time OFB negotiate open points using public sentiment. since this is private companies handling manufacturing for ATAGS, one less headache imposed on the public.

let's not forget ATAGS is the first designed and developed swadesi arty, next ones in the pipeline will not have so much confusion during it's certification and procurement process (provided gormint policy fundamentals remain the same).

 

[karn]

Wasn't the whole electric to hydraulic demand just some fake news .. IIRC someone on twitter after talking to the dev team claimed that no such request was made. It was posted on old DFI as well.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

@Satish Sharma Ji read this attached pdf on this post

But dont you think that fh77 was a gun designed in
Mid 70s even when redesigned as per our need it didn't has good metallurgical backing back in the those days. Compared to today alot of progress have been made in metallurgical aspect.
I don't think this alone would make atags go above 15 tons. It might be the one of the factor will fairly little share but not the only one. While the major contributing reasons are bigger chamber size which came along with a heavier recoil management system. This 2 factors were majorly responsible. As given the kind charge it fires it would require a strengthened recoil system.

while everyone is obsessing over weight and electric drive, largely because that is the piece of info that has come out these past few years. from my perspective, the trials seems to have certified most of the other components that make up the entirety of the ATAGS equipment for it for fire all rounds required for trials to complete, inspite of that burst barrel incident, which is good.

That barrel burst was because of the faulty ammunition supplied.

longtime back i had written a post, on how forces, DRDO and at that time OFB negotiate open points using public sentiment. since this is private companies handling manufacturing for ATAGS, one less headache imposed on the public.

let's not forget ATAGS is the first designed and developed swadesi arty, next ones in the pipeline will not have so much confusion during it's certification and procurement process (provided gormint policy fundamentals remain the same).

Wasn't the whole electric to hydraulic demand just some fake news .. IIRC someone on twitter after talking to the dev team claimed that no such request was made. It was posted on old DFI as well.

I didn't knew anyways this is speculated by many out there. That upcoming lighter gun would come without electric drives in order to reduce weight.
What is sure that it would have reduced 23l chamber size & along with redesigned recoil system with other minor tweaks.

 

[AGNI 6 ICBM]

Dimensions of AD-AH Missile

Length ~ 450 Centimeters
Diameter ~ 50 Centimeters

Used Grok to find dimensions with a known unit....So dimensions might be not accurate

IMO (90% chance of dimensions being correct)




View: https://x.com/prudhvitej32/status/1904220579051548751

----------------------------------------------------

AD-AH is Air Defence Anti Hypersonic

Hypothetical scenario of AD-AH intercepting LR-ASHM

Max Speed of AD-AH Would be Mach 5/6/8/10/12

AD-AH is undergoing Hypersonic wind tunnel tests so it might be Endo atmospheric interceptor




View: https://x.com/prudhvitej32/status/1904219296055877884

FYI the Hypersonic wind tunnel in which sub scale AD-AH is undergoing tests can produce only Mach 5 or Mach 6 or Mach 8 or Mach 10 or Mach 12

---------‐--------------------------------------------

Drdo BMD 🕉

AAD
PDV Mk-1
AD-1
PDV Mk-2 (ASAT-Shakti)
AD-2
AD-AH (Anti hypersonic)
AD-AM (MKV-Anti MIRV)?

7 interceptor missiles .....

This is what True Aatmanirbharata looks like

BMD weren't available for import




View: https://x.com/prudhvitej32/status/1901816544654667777

FYI Airframe of AD-2 will have 9 individual segments.....🕉
1st Segment is Nose cone
2nd Segment is IIR seeker + DACS
9th Segment is semi conical & controll surfaces

 

[johny_baba]

But dont you think that fh77 was a gun designed in
Mid 70s even when redesigned as per our need it didn't has good metallurgical backing back in the those days. Compared to today alot of progress have been made in metallurgical aspect.
I don't think this alone would make atags go above 15 tons. It might be the one of the factor will fairly little share but not the only one. While the major contributing reasons are bigger chamber size which came along with a heavier recoil management system. This 2 factors were majorly responsible. As given the kind charge it fires it would require a strengthened recoil system.

That barrel burst was because of the faulty ammunition supplied.



I didn't knew anyways this is speculated by many out there. That upcoming lighter gun would come without electric drives in order to reduce weight.
What is sure that it would have reduced 23l chamber size & along with redesigned recoil system with other minor tweaks.

well i'm only assuming (or as they say, ASSUME = 'making an ASS out of U and ME) because army guide dot com mentions FH-77B to be ~13 tonnes while wikipedia mentions it ~11.5 tonnes, BUT then they also say there exist FH-77B 05 which is like...swedish attempt at making ATAGS out of FH-77B design with 52 cal longer barrel, extended chamber and all, which was tested here during early 2000s - it also makes me assume that entire idea of Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan - FARP stemmed out of then Bofors offering us improved howitzer in name of FH-77B 05 - there are also mentions of us getting then fresh batch of spares and some upgrades for our 80s era FH-77B in late 90s, perhaps around Kargil War times...

so coming back, if original 39 cal FH-77B was 11.5 to 13 tonnes, it's natural to assume it would only have gone up in terms of mass/weight with further upgrades in core gun and design with ATAGS

even Dhanush 155mm / 45 cal is 13.5 tonnes and it's also Bofors fork

FH-77B 05 was used extensively on swedish Archer truck mounted SPH and we all know how sophisticated automated thing it is

 

[Virupaksha]

View: https://youtu.be/J6Au67YqgP8



View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1903017067277844811

 

[johny_baba]

View: https://youtu.be/J6Au67YqgP8



View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1903017067277844811

so...Al-31FP uprated or F414 uprated engine ? perhaps very latest version of M-88 uprated can do it too?
i don't see other viable options than those here

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

View: https://youtu.be/J6Au67YqgP8



View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1903017067277844811

next circus show is about to begin

 

[Corvus Splendens]

so...Al-31FP uprated or F414 uprated engine ? perhaps very latest version of M-88 uprated can do it too?
i don't see other viable options than those here

It's F414 considering the 6000 hour engine life requirement.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

so...Al-31FP uprated or F414 uprated engine ? perhaps very latest version of M-88 uprated can do it too?
i don't see other viable options than those here

It's more like to seduce GE

 

[fire starter]

That's why all the corrupt babus lobbying for Israeli shit should be sent to gulag.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1904398259717902679?t=mv2446ym8Vl-YtNgsTUxzA&s=19

 

[Binayak95]

That's why all the corrupt babus lobbying for Israeli shit should be sent to gulag.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1904398259717902679?t=mv2446ym8Vl-YtNgsTUxzA&s=19

arreh kaka, kis cheez ko kise saat link kar rahe hai.

When you operate a RF system with such frequency close to chinese borders (and given how old the Searchers are) any competent foe would use ELINT and SIGINT to find out the RF band, capture streams and run cryptanalysis to crack the protocol.
Once that is done taking over is child's play. the Iranians did the same to RQ4 Global Hawks too, before CENTCOM moved heaven and earth to use dynamic encryption on the fly.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

That's why all the corrupt babus lobbying for Israeli shit should be sent to gulag.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1904398259717902679?t=mv2446ym8Vl-YtNgsTUxzA&s=19

In short.

Searcher got violated by Chinese. Then send back to us.

 

[AGNI 6 ICBM]

LTB of K4 SLBM🕉

These are in Nose cap of K4 SLBM

These help K4 SLBM to get out of water

IMO 4 of these are present in Pseudo 1 st stage of K4 SLBM




View: https://x.com/prudhvitej32/status/1904433906369404953


View: https://x.com/prudhvitej32/status/1893959802537046222

 

[AGNI 6 ICBM]

DRDO is developing "PCB-Penetration cum blast" & "HRAP-Hybrid rocket assisted projectile" for ATAGS & MGS

PCB Warhead
-> 600 mm RCC (Penetration)
-> 100% Kill upto 15 Meters

Range of ATAGS with HRAP will be 57+Km
Rocket motor in shell is big brain move

Hari om🕉



View: https://x.com/prudhvitej32/status/1904438259067048252

ATAGS & MGS with these shells will be

 

[samsaptaka]

Final
Only contract signing remaining which they have to do it soon

God, please don't use that word 'soon', I am fully expecting them to take years to sign the damned contract....just watch