DRDO and PSUs

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Let me tell ya'all where we stand today france stands neck to neck. They have achieved similar features in 80s & 90s however duration of there scramjets in unavailable also since then what progress they have done isn't much available in public. And we always forget japan, they do have such tech. They also have brahmos like asm.

I would be making a detailed post covering all nations.

 

[randombully]

Let me tell ya'all where we stand today france stands neck to neck. They have achieved similar features in 80s & 90s however duration of there scramjets in unavailable also since then what progress they have done isn't much available in public. And we always forget japan, they do have such tech. They also have brahmos like asm.

I would be making a detailed post covering all nations.

If you wanna go into past, that russia/Soviets made most progress in scramjets.

But except, India declared 1000+second test today.
No other country publicly declared or have any record that can points towards scramjet burn time if more than 300+ seconds.

US holds the record for 210second scramjet burn time, longest in history publically.
Before we declared our.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

If you wanna go into past, that russia/Soviets made most progress in scramjets.
View attachment 31867View attachment 31869
But except, India declared 1000+second test today.
No other country publicly declared or have any record that can points towards scramjet burn time if more than 300+ seconds.

US holds the record for 210second scramjet burn time, longest in history publically.
Before we declared our.

I would be interested to know fuel used in the 1000 sec burn. If its hydrogen (like what the previous HSDTV demonstrator had) then there is still some way off before we drop the engine into a missile.

Kerosene, however, would be crazy.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

I would be interested to know fuel used in the 1000 sec burn. If its hydrogen (like what the previous HSDTV demonstrator had)

I dont think Previous demonstrators would have had it's too difficult to handle however it's properties are the most desired ones in such applications. In such applications ethylene is most preferred Americans use ethylene. However it's not just one fuel it's mixture of alkenes, alkynes & hydrogen. However this are not filled in missile but rather produced from jp (kerosene) fuel.
Because alkane, alkynes can't be used as endothermic fuel.
Here's details explanation.

then there is still some way off before we drop the engine into a missile.

Kerosene, however, would be crazy.

Yeah it's crazy we use kerosene.
Post in thread 'DRDO and PSUs' https://defenceforumbharat.com/threads/drdo-and-psus.23/post-111158

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I dont think Previous demonstrators would have had it's too difficult to handle however it's properties are the most desired ones in such applications. In such applications ethylene is most preferred Americans use ethylene. However it's not just one fuel it's mixture of alkenes, alkynes & hydrogen. However this are not filled in missile but rather produced from jp (kerosene) fuel.
Because alkane, alkynes can't be used as endothermic fuel.
Here's details explanation.

Yeah it's crazy we use kerosene.
Post in thread 'DRDO and PSUs' https://defenceforumbharat.com/threads/drdo-and-psus.23/post-111158

I find some of this dubious, but the word choice is confusing so it could be a misunderstanding on my end.

I dont think Previous demonstrators would have had it's too difficult to handle however it's properties are the most desired ones in such applications. In such applications ethylene is most preferred Americans use ethylene. However it's not just one fuel it's mixture of alkenes, alkynes & hydrogen. However this are not filled in missile but rather produced from jp (kerosene) fuel.

Are you saying that the kerosene fuel is broken down to form these mid flight? Very dubious imo.

Yeah it's crazy we use kerosene.
Post in thread 'DRDO and PSUs' https://defenceforumbharat.com/threads/drdo-and-psus.23/post-111158

Last credible report I saw was of us using h2 as fuel, and that ISRO test with kerosene as fuel was pending. H2 is obviously simpler, no coking, simple fuel mixing, etc. I didnt see anything in your previous post about us having functional kerosene scramjets.

 

[Azaad]

View: https://youtu.be/XH4SXgnYXIk?si=WeH5Pd1kmYQi809s

Except for his voice , especially the way he enunciates , by far Ameit Kashyap's Defence Decode is probably the best defence channel out there for technical matters.

 

[randombully]

If you wanna go into past, that russia/Soviets made most progress in scramjets.
View attachment 31867View attachment 31869
But except, India declared 1000+second test today.
No other country publicly declared or have any record that can points towards scramjet burn time if more than 300+ seconds.

US holds the record for 210second scramjet burn time, longest in history publically.
Before we declared our.

Correction:- in 2020 china claimed to do a 600second ground test of its scramjet engine.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

I find some of this dubious, but the word choice is confusing so it could be a misunderstanding on my end.

Are you saying that the kerosene fuel is broken down to form these mid flight? Very dubious imo.

Last credible report I saw was of us using h2 as fuel, and that ISRO test with kerosene as fuel was pending. H2 is obviously simpler, no coking, simple fuel mixing, etc. I didnt see anything in your previous post about us having functional kerosene scramjets.

If anything you dont know or you don't have knowledge of to grasp doesn't mean its very dubious.

Read press release of jan 2025 test.

DRDO conducts Scramjet Engine Ground Test
Posted On: 21 JAN 2025 6:38PM by PIB Delhi
Defence Research & Development Laboratory (DRDL), a Hyderabad-based laboratory of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has taken the initiative in developing a long-duration Supersonic Combustion Ramjet or Scramjet powered Hypersonic technology. DRDL recently developed these technologies and demonstrated a cutting-edge Active Cooled Scramjet Combustor ground test for 120 seconds for the first time in India. The successful ground test marks a crucial milestone in developing next-generation hypersonic missiles.
Hypersonic missiles are a class of advanced weaponry that travel at speeds greater than Mach 5 i.e., five times the speed of sound or more than 5,400 km/hr. These advanced weapons have the potential to bypass existing Air Defence Systems and deliver rapid and high-impact strikes. Several nations including USA, Russia, India and China are actively pursuing Hypersonic technology. The key to hypersonic vehicles is Scramjets, which are air breathing engines capable of sustaining combustion at supersonic speeds without using any moving parts.
The ground test of scramjet combustor showcased several notable achievements, demonstrating its potential for operational use in Hypersonic vehicles, like successful ignition and stable combustion. Ignition in a scramjet engine is like ‘keeping a candle lit in a hurricane’. Scramjet combustor incorporates an innovative flame stabilisation technique that holds continuous flame inside the combustor with air speed in excess of 1.5 km/s. Many novel and promising ignition & flame holding techniques were studied through many ground tests in arriving at Scramjet Engine configuration. Advanced Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) simulation tools were used for their evaluation & performance prediction.

The indigenous development of endothermic scramjet fuel, the first time in India, jointly by DRDL and Industry is central to this breakthrough. The fuel offers dual benefits of significant cooling improvement and ease of ignition. The team developed a special manufacturing process to achieve stringent fuel requirements of DRDL at Industrial scale.

Another key achievement is the development of state-of-art Thermal Barrier Coating (TBC) which is designed to withstand extreme temperatures encountered during hypersonic flight. A new advanced ceramic TBC having high thermal resistance & capable of operating beyond melting point of steel has been jointly developed by DRDL and Department of Science & Technology (DST) Laboratory. The coating is applied inside the Scramjet engine using special deposition methods that enhance their performance and longevity. With demonstrated capabilities in stable combustion, enhanced performance and advanced thermal management, this breakthrough sets the stage for next generation Hypersonic missiles.

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh has complimented DRDO and the Industry for the successful Scramjet Engine Ground Test. “The achievement marks a crucial milestone in the development of next-generation hypersonic missiles,” he said.

Secretary, Department of Defence R&D and Chairman DRDO Dr Samir V Kamat congratulated DRDL team and industry for demonstrating capabilities in stable combustion, enhanced performance, and advanced thermal management test.

****

SR/Savvy


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[Satish Sharma Ji]

Guys check this out.

View: https://twitter.com/daeroplate_v2/status/1915856327659958383
Imo We do have enough Sam atleast against pakistan for all out war but if qrsam would have been produced in large number then it would have been much better

5 year old interview.
'Bdl can produce 60 akash missiles per month'
The much touted public number of akash is said to be around 15500 units
Hypothetically if 60 per month then since it's production in 2007-8 approx 12500 units of akash 1,1s,prime are rolled out. Who knows how much it can be scaled up when needed. And it must have been many time.

it's unit cost back then was 2.5 crore back in 2010. After this level of mass production it shouldn't have been much different probably around 2.5-3.5 crore today being conservative. Even the akash 1s which got seeker head shouldn't cost more than 4.5crore just assumption or maybe even more or less I have no idea. Who knows akash 1s would cost & So the akash prime
The scale of production is unbelievable airforce has this missile in very huge numbers. Army inducted in 2015 while airforce started receiving from 2008 onward.

There was rumour Armenia brought 400 units of this missiles which seems true. As the deal costed just around 6000cr. Most likely a akash prime which is cold wheather oriented variant.
Current fielded AESA radar numbers are significantly low both ground based as well airborne. Once Akash Ng along with there AESA radars achieves this level of production it would add significantly to our conventional deterance.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Guys check this out.

View: https://twitter.com/daeroplate_v2/status/1915856327659958383
Imo We do have enough Sam atleast against pakistan for all out war but if qrsam would have been produced in large number then it would have been much better

Question, does QR-SAM is built for this purpose.

 

[Patriots]

Question, does QR-SAM is built for this purpose.

India has multiple air defence systems,
All are integrated,
S400 is not a stand alone system,no stand alone system can survive in a war
S400 is complemented by mrsam , akash , then man portable systems ,then if possible anti drone systems

 

[randombully]

Question, does QR-SAM is built for this purpose.

Mainly yeah.

 

[Gslv Mk3]

View: https://youtu.be/XH4SXgnYXIk?si=WeH5Pd1kmYQi809s

Except for his voice , especially the way he enunciates , by far Ameit Kashyap's Defence Decode is probably the best defence channel out there for technical matters.

Wait, I thought you were Ameit Kashyap.

 

[username unkown]

Guys check this out.

View: https://twitter.com/daeroplate_v2/status/1915856327659958383
Imo We do have enough Sam atleast against pakistan for all out war but if qrsam would have been produced in large number then it would have been much better

Indian s400 is integrated with other air defence system
L47 bofors/zu23/ ciws <shilka < samar air defence in bulk< akash < mrsam < and s 400

In future it might be something like
Ciws <vshorad <samar<qrsam < akash/vl srsam< mrsam < Lrsam < kusha/s400
A proper layered air defence system with net centric warfare

 

[Patriots]

Indian s400 is integrated with other air defence system
L47 bofors/zu23/ ciws <shilka < samar air defence in bulk< akash < mrsam < and s 400

In future it might be something like
Ciws <vshorad <samar<qrsam < akash/vl srsam< mrsam < Lrsam < kusha/s400
A proper layered air defence system with net centric warfare

Samar air defence is not in bulk .....

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Indian s400 is integrated with other air defence system
L47 bofors/zu23/ ciws <shilka < samar air defence in bulk< akash < mrsam < and s 400

In future it might be something like
Ciws <vshorad <samar<qrsam < akash/vl srsam< mrsam < Lrsam < kusha/s400
A proper layered air defence system with net centric warfare

Samar is not the dedicated SAM. It is adhoc SAM based on existing Missile stock.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Time for rudram to prove itself.

Genrols desired rudram 1 with very fast burn rate motor to shorten the time resulting a very fast missile in order to shorten engagement time. At cost of reduced range.
While russkies and chinks have ramjet powered which can do both long range cruising as well as short range at higher speeds. While Americans prefered there harm with not so fast sustained boost burn rate. there 470kg missile delivers 300km range.
While as per public information rudram goes upto 150-200km which weighs around 600kg. Has much larger dual pulsed motor.
It should hit anything ~300km with descent speed & beyond. However in ranges upto 150-200km it would penetrate anything & turn into ash.

However given Pakis sam system induction they do have multilayered missile with ranges varieing from 40km,125km to 250-300km(chinese s300 equivalent,). missiles could be deployed much ahead of radars. So yeah it isn't like rudram 1 can't engage them but it's effectiveness won't be as much as we would expect let's see how it goes if we choose to test. In large number we would still definitely turn there radars into ash. But the question is do we have enough of them ?
For this purpose rudram 2 is being developed.

We haven't factored jamming. it is multilayered network of sam still jamming could deteriorate there performance depending on the extent theof jammers are brought in.

While Pakis don't posses any significant anti radiation capability.


View: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1915998396973814074

 

[Vinod Patter]

Time for rudram to prove itself.

Genrols desired rudram 1 with very fast burn rate motor to shorten the time resulting a very fast missile in order to shorten engagement time. At cost of reduced range.
While russkies and chinks have ramjet powered which can do both long range cruising as well as short range at higher speeds. While Americans prefered there harm with not so fast sustained boost burn rate. there 470kg missile delivers 300km range.
While as per public information rudram goes upto 150-200km which weighs around 600kg. Has much larger dual pulsed motor.
It should hit anything ~300km with descent speed & beyond. However in ranges upto 150-200km it would penetrate anything & turn into ash.

However given Pakis sam system induction they do have multilayered missile with ranges varieing from 40km,125km to 250-300km(chinese s300 equivalent,). missiles could be deployed much ahead of radars. So yeah it isn't like rudram 1 can't engage them but it's effectiveness won't be as much as we would expect let's see how it goes if we choose to test. In large number we would still definitely turn there radars into ash. But the question is do we have enough of them ?
For this purpose rudram 2 is being developed.

We haven't factored jamming. it is multilayered network of sam still jamming could deteriorate there performance depending on the extent theof jammers are brought in.

While Pakis don't posses any significant anti radiation capability.


View: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1915998396973814074

How many HQ-9,LY-80,HQ-7 batteries does Pakistan posses ?

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Question, does QR-SAM is built for this purpose.

It's a 270kg missile with quite a big motor. For comparison mrsam weighs 275kg.
Also the wing configuration should give it good muneuverability. It should be effective even against battlefield ballistic missiles. As well as muneuverable fighters, cruise missiles, drones.
And let's not forget how muneuverable the overall truck mounted system is it should function while moving. Army's comic verse requirements has yielded very good system.

India has multiple air defence systems,
All are integrated,
S400 is not a stand alone system,no stand alone system can survive in a war
S400 is complemented by mrsam , akash , then man portable systems ,then if possible anti drone systems

Yeah I just counter the huge numbers of akash for comparison. Mrsam should add up significantly against battlefield ballistic missile threats compared to akash.
We have proper layered network centric system in operation to cater for all threats along with intergrated electronic warfare systems for anti drone solutions.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

How many HQ-9,LY-80,HQ-7 batteries does Pakistan posses ?

Yeah very few. And also porks have higher chances of shooting down there western origin assets with those sams. I suppose they can't operate them together affecting operational flexibility and effectiveness. We tout abt our diverse zoo
But never talked abt there's the porkis have refuelers which can't refuel f16s they have aircraft like mirages 3 which can refueled but has very limited tasks to perform. Jf17 not all of have a2a refueling and those who have them have there own problems it's said to be interfere with flight characteristics. Also this block 3 jf17s are in limited numbers. The block52s are also in very limited number j10 only in 20-25nos.

still why do porkis have sense of superiority in there airforce