DRDO and PSU's

[Anants]

What would those guided rockets target ? Would they be static or dynamic targets ? What's the cost benefit analysis behind firing just 2 guided rockets vs say 12 on the same target ?

Azaad think this way what would you prefer an accurate working Insas which fires 3 bullets per trigger squeeze or old Darra made spray and pray ak 47 on full auto?

Anyway Army has option of both guided and unguided. With Guided usually they fire salvo of 2, 3 to increase probability of hit. Lets take case you would lie to hit bridge on featureless Tibetan plateau. Your ability to hit increases with using guided - rather than unguided. With unguided - you pray and hope that some of them may hit. Infact Army may not choose Unguided option at that moment but may choose something else - like long range Artillery, airstrike or even commando raid(thats my guess)

 

[Anants]

Not really the case any more as GPS guidance becomes increasingly cheap to produce and implement. Here's a civilian one you could buy off of Alibaba for a 'very high price' of14$, 9.5 if you buy in bulk -

Per unit Unguided Pinaka Mark 2 - 23 Lakhs
Per unit Guided Pinaka Mark 2 - 70 Lakhs (GMLRS - 120 Lakh)

 

[Blood+]

Per unit Unguided Pinaka Mark 2 - 23 Lakhs
Per unit Guided Pinaka Mark 2 - 70 Lakhs (GMLRS - 120 Lakh)
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60-80m CEP and still somehow equivalent to GMLRS; boy, sometimes I wish I had the confidence of these DRDO uncles.

By the way, is this CEP with the Israeli Trajectory Correction System?? @Ayan Barat

 

[Ayan Barat]

First thing first; unguided and guided rockets are not two "different" categories of weapons rather one is the next generation of another.

When we developed detachable magazines then did we started to have two different kinds of guns with detachable or non-detachable magazines or all of them slowly got replaced by the better one!? Something similar is the case here.

What would those guided rockets target ?

90% of the time a guided rocket is used to target static targets. GPS and to most extent INS can't compensate for a dynamic target

Would they be static or dynamic targets ?

Again, unless fitted with a more precise terminal seeker they'd be used exclusively for static targets

What's the cost benefit analysis behind firing just 2 guided rockets vs say 12 on the same target ?

There is and I think you're confusing the use of guidance in rocket with something else.
Rockets are upgraded with guidance kits not because they're used to target moving things, absolutely not. The only reason to use guidance kits on rockets is because rockets are extremely inaccurate weapons. They are just horrendous as the range increases and there's a reason for that

As soon as they accelerate they've their CM somewhere in middle because you've a large amount of propellant. But hardly 4-5sec into flight and all the CM gets shifted near the warhead assembly and you're left with a long, empty tube trailing behind it. And by no means this is a desirable situation in terminal ballistics.
Not to mention things like slower speed, slower revolution and higher susceptibility to windage drift compared to an artillery shells.

So by all means it's better to have guided rockets if you plan to go long range no matter what's the use case...2 rockets, 471 rocket salvo, save cost, dynamic, static, whatever.

As for the benefits in static targets which you might be confusing with dynamic, here's two

The brown area is a concentration of troops in open and the green circle are the lethal blast radius of each shell. In both cases (one was too out frame to include) I fire a salvo of 9 rockets with only difference being that in the first each is assigned a GPS coordinates to minimize gaps in between.
You'll me, which one would neutralize more troops?
Second example, let's target a military installation

With just 12 rockets I can destroy this whole air base by efficiently "assigning" them to things like hanger and runways.
Tell me how many rockets would I have needed to achieve this level of destruction if they were unguided?

 

[Anants]

60-80m CEP and still somehow equivalent to GMLRS; boy, sometimes I wish I had the confidence of these DRDO uncles.

By the way, is this CEP with the Israeli Trajectory Correction System?? @Ayan Barat

Yes its with Israeli TCS iirc

 

[Anants]

60-80m CEP and still somehow equivalent to GMLRS; boy, sometimes I wish I had the confidence of these DRDO uncles.

By the way, is this CEP with the Israeli Trajectory Correction System?? @Ayan Barat

The technology which gives improved accuracy to GMRLS makes it 120 lakh per piece .. which means almost 50 lakh more expensive for that guided Pinaka missile. You will find the difference is not that much for unguided version (23 Lakh vs 34.7 Lakh - approx 11 Lakh difference).

 

[Ayan Barat]

By the way, is this CEP with the Israeli Trajectory Correction System??

Well as Anant said, it's with the Israeli one. But I think at some point we'd have to forgo it and only God knows how that's going to play out.

Given the earlier Pinaka orders and the on-going AtmanirbharArmenia campaign at someone or other we're definitely going to sell them guided Pinakas and Israeli would never be happy about it.

The technology which gives improved accuracy to GMRLS makes it 120 lakh per piece .. which means almost 50 lakh more expensive for that guided Pinaka missile. You will find the difference is not that much for unguided version (23 Lakh vs 34.7 Lakh - approx 11 Lakh difference).

If someone really tries then they can very easily bring down this cost significantly without compromising much in performance. It just have to happen

 

[Blood+]

The technology which gives improved accuracy to GMRLS makes it 120 lakh per piece .. which means almost 50 lakh more expensive for that guided Pinaka missile. You will find the difference is not that much for unguided version (23 Lakh vs 34.7 Lakh - approx 11 Lakh difference).

That ain't the point, my guy.

 

[Blood+]

Well as Anant said, it's with the Israeli one. But I think at some point we'd have to forgo it and only God knows how that's going to play out.

I wonder if a miniaturized version of land attack BrahMos's guidance module could be made to work.

 

[Blood+]

Whatever the angle , assume both the target flag & the rocket are aligned in a straight line & using the principle of visual inspection estimate the distance between the landing position of the rocket & distance to the flag . It's roughly 1.5 times. We know the length of the rocket is ~ 5 mtrs.

That would work only if we were existing in a 2d universe.

 

[Blood+]

First thing first; unguided and guided rockets are not two "different" categories of weapons rather one is the next generation of another.

When we developed detachable magazines then did we started to have two different kinds of guns with detachable or non-detachable magazines or all of them slowly got replaced by the better one!? Something similar is the case here.

90% of the time a guided rocket is used to target static targets. GPS and to most extent INS can't compensate for a dynamic target

Again, unless fitted with a more precise terminal seeker they'd be used exclusively for static targets

There is and I think you're confusing the use of guidance in rocket with something else.
Rockets are upgraded with guidance kits not because they're used to target moving things, absolutely not. The only reason to use guidance kits on rockets is because rockets are extremely inaccurate weapons. They are just horrendous as the range increases and there's a reason for that
View attachment 16574
As soon as they accelerate they've their CM somewhere in middle because you've a large amount of propellant. But hardly 4-5sec into flight and all the CM gets shifted near the warhead assembly and you're left with a long, empty tube trailing behind it. And by no means this is a desirable situation in terminal ballistics.
Not to mention things like slower speed, slower revolution and higher susceptibility to windage drift compared to an artillery shells.

So by all means it's better to have guided rockets if you plan to go long range no matter what's the use case...2 rockets, 471 rocket salvo, save cost, dynamic, static, whatever.

As for the benefits in static targets which you might be confusing with dynamic, here's two
View attachment 16578
The brown area is a concentration of troops in open and the green circle are the lethal blast radius of each shell. In both cases (one was too out frame to include) I fire a salvo of 9 rockets with only difference being that in the first each is assigned a GPS coordinates to minimize gaps in between.
You'll me, which one would neutralize more troops?
Second example, let's target a military installation
View attachment 16579
With just 12 rockets I can destroy this whole air base by efficiently "assigning" them to things like hanger and runways.
Tell me how many rockets would I have needed to achieve this level of destruction if they were unguided?

Hmm... and you were complaining about my posts the other day.

But anyway, thanks for doing the leg work, or else I'd have to take it upon me.

 

[Blood+]

View: https://twitter.com/Ray70409890/status/1861364999752474948

 

[Bleh]

Per unit Unguided Pinaka Mark 2 - 23 Lakhs
Per unit Guided Pinaka Mark 2 - 70 Lakhs (GMLRS - 120 Lakh)
View attachment 16575
View attachment 16576
View attachment 16577

That's actually quite cost effective!. Obe guided missile is worth atleast 5 unguided ones.

 

[Nutcracker]

That's actually quite cost effective!. Obe guided missile is worth atleast 5 unguided ones

CEP should've been better. 10m atleast.

 

[Bleh]

CEP should've been better. 10m atleast.

I think a costlier guidance would allow more accuracy, but they're going with 50m deviation one to keep unit prices down. Not everything needs to be extremely high end.
M31 GMLRS maybe hot shit & make some of our lads wet in the knickers, but costs $170000 per unit now, exactly double of Guided Pinaka's is ₹70lakh.

If they're not targeting specific buildings or bridges then. It'd be enough to take out a artillery position, anmo dump etc.