DRDO and PSU's

These poor guys aren't going to stop taking flak anytime soon
timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Indian Coast Guard chopper crashes in Gujarat during routine sortie; 3 killed | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: Three personnel were killed after an Indian Coast Guard's (ICG) chopper ALH Dhruv crashed on Sunday at Gujarat's Porbandar during a routine.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com
And now someone would come on Twitter with a thread on how Dhurv is bad and PSUs should be restructured

Anyways, three people including two pilots lost their lives
Sadgati for them
 
Ayan Barat said:
These poor guys aren't going to stop taking flak anytime soon
timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Indian Coast Guard chopper crashes in Gujarat during routine sortie; 3 killed | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: Three personnel were killed after an Indian Coast Guard's (ICG) chopper ALH Dhruv crashed on Sunday at Gujarat's Porbandar during a routine.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com
And now someone would come on Twitter with a thread on how Dhurv is bad and PSUs should be restructured

Anyways, three people including two pilots lost their lives
Sadgati for them
Click to expand...
Well such conversations won't arise for Foreign maal. Second it's also on part of HAL to improvise quality control but since it's a Gormint Company which has monopoly, it wouldn't bother. If Helicopters mandated fine quality control, we would be seeing Soviet maal raining down like birds, but they aren't. They are serving well which means design flaws. I don't think they bothered to fix them after all it's a PSU.
 
NerVik said:
If this is a restaurant order, You aren't tasting it, the tasting was done during the testing phase. This is a catering order. If they wanted to test this missile dont order 100, order numbers enough just for testing and call it testing. This is an operations purchase order. If the IAF is still testing at this point then there is something seriously wrong with our product development process and/or procurement process.
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Is this is a restaurant order, then chef never finds fault in his own cooking.

For practical operational orders, there are always minor hiccups which comes to light in operational environments. Isn’t this what we always wanted ? Inducting indigenous platforms and mature them with domestic use ?

Still we aren’t happy ?

Ayan Barat said:
These poor guys aren't going to stop taking flak anytime soon
timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Indian Coast Guard chopper crashes in Gujarat during routine sortie; 3 killed | India News - Times of India

India News: NEW DELHI: Three personnel were killed after an Indian Coast Guard's (ICG) chopper ALH Dhruv crashed on Sunday at Gujarat's Porbandar during a routine.
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com
And now someone would come on Twitter with a thread on how Dhurv is bad and PSUs should be restructured

Anyways, three people including two pilots lost their lives
Sadgati for them
Click to expand...

Aren’t we giving HAL a way too long a rope ? I am not calling de-induction of Dhruv but even after 20+ years of induction HAL can’t iron out the issues ?

We are talking about lives lost here.
 
mist_consecutive said:
Aren’t we giving HAL a way too long a rope ? I am not calling de-induction of Dhruv but even after 20+ years of induction HAL can’t iron out the issues ?

We are talking about lives lost here.
Click to expand...
I may have missed two three incidents, but most of them are documented here...

IAF service:
1. November 26, 2005; Crash during training flight.
• Pilot error leading to loss of control.
2. February 13, 2007; Hard landing during a routine sortie.
• Mechanical failure in the tail rotor assembly.
3. October 5, 2009; Crash during a demonstration flight.
• Pilot error; failure to recover from a maneuver.
4. August 19, 2010; Hard landing in adverse weather conditions.
• Environmental factors; sudden weather changes.
5. February 11, 2015; Crash during a training mission.
• Under investigation.
6. July 4, 2017; Crash during a routine sortie.
• Technical malfunction leading to loss of control.
7. January 25, 2021; Crash in Kathua district, Jammu and Kashmir.
• Under investigation.
8. August 3, 2021; Crash near Ranjit Sagar Dam.
• Under investigation.
9. March 8, 2023; Emergency water landing off the coast of Mumbai.
• Technical malfunction.
10. March 26, 2023; Crash shortly after takeoff near Kochi Airport.
• Technical malfunction.
11. September 2, 2024; Emergency landing in the Arabian Sea near Porbandar.
• Under investigation.
12. October 2, 2024; Forced landing in a flooded area in Bihar.
• Engine failure.
13. January 5, 2025; Crash during a routine training sortie in Porbandar, Gujarat.
• Technical difficulties.

EAF service
14. October 27, 2009; Crash during a military parade in Quito.
• Pilot error; helicopter was performing low pass when it lost control.
15. February 2014; Crash during a training mission.
• Mechanical failure.
16. January 2015; Crash during a routine flight.
• Non-maintenance issues; attributed to lack of proper upkeep.
17. January 2015; Crash during a transport mission.
• Human error; specifics not detailed.

At some points most of these "under investigation" concluded, though the reports were not made public. But we've an official reply from MoD to Rajya Sabha
"Out of 16 accidents, 12 occurred due to human error & environmental factors and the remaining 4 occurred due to technical reasons"

The only scenario in which you can blame the manufacturer for these types of failures is if close to half of the failures were due to one recurring issue. Like in case of Dhruv one such issue was the fact that at some point steel control actuation rods got replaced by aluminium ones, which started to fail. Though this happen multiple times, but still it's nowhere near that 50% mark.

Just to give an example of what's a recurring issue for which a manufacturer is solely responsible, take the example of Boeing 737 Max. As of now four incidents have happened with two being catastrophic crashes. And both these crashes were attributed to a single faulty systems; the MCAS.
 
mist_consecutive said:
Is this is a restaurant order, then chef never finds fault in his own cooking.

For practical operational orders, there are always minor hiccups which comes to light in operational environments. Isn’t this what we always wanted ? Inducting indigenous platforms and mature them with domestic use ?

Still we aren’t happy ?



Aren’t we giving HAL a way too long a rope ? I am not calling de-induction of Dhruv but even after 20+ years of induction HAL can’t iron out the issues ?

We are talking about lives lost here.
Click to expand...

how we can rely on them for our 5th generating fighter plane ?
 
pramodkumar.ca said:
how we can rely on them for our 5th generating fighter plane ?
Click to expand...

Every technical platform has its challenges. Issues are rectified by iterative improvements.

Its not an “HAL” issue but more like lack of quick feedback-> improvement cycle
 
mist_consecutive said:
Every technical platform has its challenges. Issues are rectified by iterative improvements.

Its not an “HAL” issue but more like lack of quick feedback-> improvement cycle
Click to expand...
A criticism I read from IN over their debacle of Dhruv procurement relates to nonexistant safety standards at HAL along with a very defensive attitude.... Hopefully things have changed since then, this was quite old.
 
SwordOfDarkness said:
A criticism I read from IN over their debacle of Dhruv procurement relates to nonexistant safety standards at HAL along with a very defensive attitude.... Hopefully things have changed since then, this was quite old.
Click to expand...

livefist article ? , i remember there was a story of gps antenna on the alh or dhruv falling off and when iaf complained to hal they said they already knew and didnt bother to tell iaf . cables been routed incorrectly / poor quality control. this was i think situation 10 years back , things probably better now .

people love hating on IAF but these psu's deserve their share of blame .

Corvus Splendens said:
So much mental gymnastics from all sides just to put one indigenous UAV into service.

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1874833024812273958

View: https://x.com/hellfire_81/status/1874861128096047275
Click to expand...


hellfire hates them because nishant uav fell on his head during an exercise

:D or something like that , dont remembe exactly.
 
Ultraman said:
livefist article ? , i remember there was a story of gps antenna on the alh or dhruv falling off and when iaf complained to hal they said they already knew and didnt bother to tell iaf . cables been routed incorrectly / poor quality control. this was i think situation 10 years back , things probably better now .

people love hating on IAF but these psu's deserve their share of blame .



hellfire hates them because nishant uav fell on his head during an exercise

:D or something like that , dont remembe exactly.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I wonder how much does this Hellfire guy knows how things work, maybe ask him difference between AESA and PESA and he will probably fall flat. Yet, the guy has audacity to put his opinions on projects which he probably doesn't know the nitty gritty of as absolute facts and not mere opinions or guess.
Have seen this sheer arrogance among ex armed forces personnels on the Twitter. I hope that is not service induced and is their own personality because if it's not then even Ram wouldn't be able to save this country in case of attack from superior force like China.

Well, it's a good thing atleast that these guys get sh*tted on every day on the app which was earlier not so. I guess normal citizen is tired of their bravado stories and want to see things happening, finally calling their ludicrous behaviour and in Soviet parlance, straight mutinous behaviour towards the motherland and it's interest.
 
Hawkeye said:
Sometimes I wonder how much does this Hellfire guy knows how things work, maybe ask him difference between AESA and PESA and he will probably fall flat. Yet, the guy has audacity to put his opinions on projects which he probably doesn't know the nitty gritty of as absolute facts and not mere opinions or guess.
Have seen this sheer arrogance among ex armed forces personnels on the Twitter. I hope that is not service induced and is their own personality because if it's not then even Ram wouldn't be able to save this country in case of attack from superior force like China.

Well, it's a good thing atleast that these guys get sh*tted on every day on the app which was earlier not so. I guess normal citizen is tired of their bravado stories and want to see things happening, finally calling their ludicrous behaviour and in Soviet parlance, straight mutinous behaviour towards the motherland and it's interest.
Click to expand...
It is indeed service induced for the most part.
 
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