US Air Force (2 Viewers)

[Noob_Saibot]

obviously that will never happen till burgerica will use its proxies to fight vodkanagar. only when they have a direct clash, maybe they will use f15 or f18 to get an idea, you saw f22 is retiring without a single kill, if you leave aside the brave balloon shot aside. f35 will see the ad and 4.5 gen aircrafts because soon iran would get s400 and su35 to tackle israel.
lets see what happens in future, but i aint getting in the trap that f22 is the most advanced fighter, 1990 made fighter it is, it wont stand against rafale f3r and f4, its just its stealth shaped, its avionics and 5th gen subsytems and ew would get cooked by any decent 4.5 gen aircraft.

Mate, there is literally no 4.5th gen fighter than can hold a candle to the F22.

The F22 was designed from the ground up for dominating enemy airspace and assert air superiority.

There is a reason the Americunts never considered exporting the bird to even their closest allies.

It is literally THE air superiority fighter, best in the world at what it does, even without stealth.

It can smoke Rafale, Eurofighter or Gripen in a2a combat. The Rafale will not even see it before getting smoked.

 

[liberalredditor]

Mate, there is literally no 4.5th gen fighter than can hold a candle to the F22.

The F22 was designed from the ground up for dominating enemy airspace and assert air superiority.

There is a reason the Americunts never considered exporting the bird to even their closest allies.

It is literally THE air superiority fighter, best in the world at what it does, even without stealth.

It can smoke Rafale, Eurofighter or Gripen in a2a combat. The Rafale will not even see it before getting smoked.

burgericunts control the narrative according to their wish, f22 isnt 5th gen i am damn sure visible screws and rust? They using iron or steel in aircraft production? F22 doesnt even have sensor fusion of eots or any advanced sensor, its at best a 4.5gen aircraft with some stealth shaping which they over hype

 

[randombully]

burgericunts control the narrative according to their wish, f22 isnt 5th gen i am damn sure View attachment 41725 visible screws and rust? They using iron or steel in aircraft production? F22 doesnt even have sensor fusion of eots or any advanced sensor, its at best a 4.5gen aircraft with some stealth shaping which they over hype

It is a stealth plane its rcs is small enough to be called a stealth plane, designed with both radar based stealth and IR stealth in mind, it's also supermaneuverable along with stealth, something with f35 and j20 lacks, it can also supercruise something that f35 lacks.

But it is not as advanced as f35 in terms of avionics and sensors, even su57, early j20 varients in terms of Avionics and sensor suite, rafale f4 even f3 has more advance and more complete sensor suite than f22.

F22 in terms of avionics and sensor suite is the most outdated stealth jet in service.




Second it has quite less amount of composites than f35,su57,j20.
Even eurofighter, rafale, tejas have more amount of composite than f22.
And composites used in f35, su57,j20 are ras material, with stealth baked into the airframe material itself + additional stealth RAM coating.
F22 is majority metal with significant amount of composites, but as said before it doesn't have RAS, it depends entirely on RAM coating on its skin for its stealth, hence much more radar absorbing and heavy RAM coating is needed for f22, its RAM while pretty good at absorbing radar waves is pretty fragile, and require very frequent re-coats of RAM to maintain stealth, in lots of training exercises many f22 are not even painted with that coating hence lots of pics of its naked metal in internet.

And while f22'a rcs is said to be 0.0001m2 from frontal arc, but that's kinda bogus, it's most likely talking about it's frontal rcs " from optimal angle" or the lowest value In it's rcs range, no stealth jet has 0.0001m2 frontal median or avg rcs, you just can't have that with current stealth material tech, it will require so mach ram/ras material that aircraft will be too heavy to take off with decent payload and fuel or even too heavy to take off at all, plus boat loads of other problem that will arise.
Even j20 and even su57 has 0.0001m2 rcs from certain optimal angles.

Now, again, a jet's rcs Is not a single number or range, but to get a general gist of a stealth of a fighter jet, you can use these no. I painstakingly concluded over the years based on many simulations and other info.

Su57's " frontal rcs" ( -60° to +60°)= 0.006-0.01m2
But when it's naked irst is working and not closed it's rcs increase to 0.1-0.2m2, can't call it stealth with this much increase in rcs.

F22s = 0.001-0.005m2.
J20 =0.003-0.006m2.
F35= 0.0005-0.0015m2.

These are the rcs figure for frontal arc of these fighter jets.

Also note, just like there are optimal angles for where rcs can go as low as 0.0001m2, there are also angles where rcs spikes, these no. Are for general understanding of frontal stealth of these jets.

Another interesting thing.
In L band and vhf frequency su57 actually has the lowest rcs out of all the stealth jets, due to its overall slimmer profile.
But it also has the highest rcs in x band out of all the stealth jets.


If su57 had better stealth in x band then it could have been the best stealth fighter jet platform in the world.
It can supercruise, has supermaneuverability, big enough & high potential for future upgrades, can carry cruise missiles in its iwb, biggest iwb and biggest iwb capacity out of all the 5th gen jets, a very impressive sensor suite( everything f35 has in sensors but also
side facing and even back facing radars, dircm etc.) But individual sensors and it's architecture is not as advanced as f35, but again these can be upgraded in the future, lowest rcs out of all 5th gen jets in L and VHF band, if only it had better stealth in X band.

 

[snakeeyes07]

It is a stealth plane its rcs is small enough to be called a stealth plane, designed with both radar based stealth and IR stealth in mind, it's also supermaneuverable along with stealth, something with f35 and j20 lacks, it can also supercruise something that f35 lacks.

But it is not as advanced as f35 in terms of avionics and sensors, even su57, early j20 varients in terms of Avionics and sensor suite, rafale f4 even f3 has more advance and more complete sensor suite than f22.

F22 in terms of avionics and sensor suite is the most outdated stealth jet in service.




Second it has quite less amount of composites than f35,su57,j20.
Even eurofighter, rafale, tejas have more amount of composite than f22.
And composites used in f35, su57,j20 are ras material, with stealth baked into the airframe material itself + additional stealth RAM coating.
F22 is majority metal with significant amount of composites, but as said before it doesn't have RAS, it depends entirely on RAM coating on its skin for its stealth, hence much more radar absorbing and heavy RAM coating is needed for f22, its RAM while pretty good at absorbing radar waves is pretty fragile, and require very frequent re-coats of RAM to maintain stealth, in lots of training exercises many f22 are not even painted with that coating hence lots of pics of its naked metal in internet.

And while f22'a rcs is said to be 0.0001m2 from frontal arc, but that's kinda bogus, it's most likely talking about it's frontal rcs " from optimal angle" or the lowest value In it's rcs range, no stealth jet has 0.0001m2 frontal median or avg rcs, you just can't have that with current stealth material tech, it will require so mach ram/ras material that aircraft will be too heavy to take off with decent payload and fuel or even too heavy to take off at all, plus boat loads of other problem that will arise.
Even j20 and even su57 has 0.0001m2 rcs from certain optimal angles.

Now, again, a jet's rcs Is not a single number or range, but to get a general gist of a stealth of a fighter jet, you can use these no. I painstakingly concluded over the years based on many simulations and other info.

Su57's " frontal rcs" ( -60° to +60°)= 0.006-0.01m2
But when it's naked irst is working and not closed it's rcs increase to 0.1-0.2m2, can't call it stealth with this much increase in rcs.

F22s = 0.001-0.005m2.
J20 =0.003-0.006m2.
F35= 0.0005-0.0015m2.

These are the rcs figure for frontal arc of these fighter jets.

Also note, just like there are optimal angles for where rcs can go as low as 0.0001m2, there are also angles where rcs spikes, these no. Are for general understanding of frontal stealth of these jets.

Another interesting thing.
In L band and vhf frequency su57 actually has the lowest rcs out of all the stealth jets, due to its overall slimmer profile.
But it also has the highest rcs in x band out of all the stealth jets.


If su57 had better stealth in x band then it could have been the best stealth fighter jet platform in the world.
It can supercruise, has supermaneuverability, big enough & high potential for future upgrades, can carry cruise missiles in its iwb, biggest iwb and biggest iwb capacity out of all the 5th gen jets, a very impressive sensor suite( everything f35 has in sensors but also
side facing and even back facing radars, dircm etc.) But individual sensors and it's architecture is not as advanced as f35, but again these can be upgraded in the future, lowest rcs out of all 5th gen jets in L and VHF band, if only it had better stealth in X band.

Also not optimal against the S band from most AEW&CS and ground radars.


When considering S, X & Ku band I think the stealth order (higher the better) is:
F22 > F35 > J35 > J20 > SU57

 

[liberalredditor]

It is a stealth plane its rcs is small enough to be called a stealth plane, designed with both radar based stealth and IR stealth in mind, it's also supermaneuverable along with stealth, something with f35 and j20 lacks, it can also supercruise something that f35 lacks.

But it is not as advanced as f35 in terms of avionics and sensors, even su57, early j20 varients in terms of Avionics and sensor suite, rafale f4 even f3 has more advance and more complete sensor suite than f22.

F22 in terms of avionics and sensor suite is the most outdated stealth jet in service.




Second it has quite less amount of composites than f35,su57,j20.
Even eurofighter, rafale, tejas have more amount of composite than f22.
And composites used in f35, su57,j20 are ras material, with stealth baked into the airframe material itself + additional stealth RAM coating.
F22 is majority metal with significant amount of composites, but as said before it doesn't have RAS, it depends entirely on RAM coating on its skin for its stealth, hence much more radar absorbing and heavy RAM coating is needed for f22, its RAM while pretty good at absorbing radar waves is pretty fragile, and require very frequent re-coats of RAM to maintain stealth, in lots of training exercises many f22 are not even painted with that coating hence lots of pics of its naked metal in internet.

And while f22'a rcs is said to be 0.0001m2 from frontal arc, but that's kinda bogus, it's most likely talking about it's frontal rcs " from optimal angle" or the lowest value In it's rcs range, no stealth jet has 0.0001m2 frontal median or avg rcs, you just can't have that with current stealth material tech, it will require so mach ram/ras material that aircraft will be too heavy to take off with decent payload and fuel or even too heavy to take off at all, plus boat loads of other problem that will arise.
Even j20 and even su57 has 0.0001m2 rcs from certain optimal angles.

Now, again, a jet's rcs Is not a single number or range, but to get a general gist of a stealth of a fighter jet, you can use these no. I painstakingly concluded over the years based on many simulations and other info.

Su57's " frontal rcs" ( -60° to +60°)= 0.006-0.01m2
But when it's naked irst is working and not closed it's rcs increase to 0.1-0.2m2, can't call it stealth with this much increase in rcs.

F22s = 0.001-0.005m2.
J20 =0.003-0.006m2.
F35= 0.0005-0.0015m2.

These are the rcs figure for frontal arc of these fighter jets.

Also note, just like there are optimal angles for where rcs can go as low as 0.0001m2, there are also angles where rcs spikes, these no. Are for general understanding of frontal stealth of these jets.

Another interesting thing.
In L band and vhf frequency su57 actually has the lowest rcs out of all the stealth jets, due to its overall slimmer profile.
But it also has the highest rcs in x band out of all the stealth jets.


If su57 had better stealth in x band then it could have been the best stealth fighter jet platform in the world.
It can supercruise, has supermaneuverability, big enough & high potential for future upgrades, can carry cruise missiles in its iwb, biggest iwb and biggest iwb capacity out of all the 5th gen jets, a very impressive sensor suite( everything f35 has in sensors but also
side facing and even back facing radars, dircm etc.) But individual sensors and it's architecture is not as advanced as f35, but again these can be upgraded in the future, lowest rcs out of all 5th gen jets in L and VHF band, if only it had better stealth in X band.

Sir pls write books, you can dominate the indian bookshelves with your knwoledge

 

[randombully]

Also not optimal against the S band from most AEW&CS and ground radars.


When considering S, X & Ku band I think the stealth order (higher the better) is:
F22 > F35 > J35 > J20 > SU57

In s band.
F35>j20>f22>>su57.

 

[randombully]

@randombully but still how can even a b1 have less rcs in frontal aspect compared to rafale in frontal aspect?

It doesn't.
Rafale with it's composite and radar absorbant paint( not as effective as RAM on stealth jets, though much more durable) has frontal clean rcs( without any external payload) between 0.5-1 m2.
Tejas, eurofighter, gripen e also has similar 0.5-1m2 frontal rcs, clean.

Super hornet tho has frontal clean rcs between 0.1-0.5m2, the lowest out of all the non stealth jets.

Lowering Rcs is a combined effort of shaping + radar absorbing material.

The radar absorbing material of choosing is lot times about finding balance between actual benifit and cost + maintinance.
B1b while not stealth, does have extensive radar absorbing treatment.

 

[Interested]

Mate, there is literally no 4.5th gen fighter than can hold a candle to the F22.

The F22 was designed from the ground up for dominating enemy airspace and assert air superiority.

There is a reason the Americunts never considered exporting the bird to even their closest allies.

It is literally THE air superiority fighter, best in the world at what it does, even without stealth.

It can smoke Rafale, Eurofighter or Gripen in a2a combat. The Rafale will not even see it before getting smoked.

How do you know ?

It has never scored a direct kill in all its existence

 

[liberalredditor]

How do you know ? It has never scored a direct kill in all its existence

exactly, its just a balloon killer

burgers give reason or excuse to not use in real life is that they dont want to expose its rcs and capabilities, its just like pork def min saying we didnt use our ad because we didnt want to reveal its location

 

[Noob_Saibot]

How do you know ?

It has never scored a direct kill in all its existence

It hasn't been needed. No war fought by the US has seen its air superiority challenged.

Doesn't mean you discount its capabilities.

Literally every expert worth their salt will tell you this is the best and strongest air superiority fighter in the world.

 

[randombully]

Literally every expert worth their salt will tell you this is the best and strongest air superiority fighter in the world.

Then they aren't worth their salt.

In an actual fight, f22 will rely on data from f35 and other sensors and will be used as stealthy agile missile carrier in most cases.

There's a reason USAF is upgrading the Raptor with f35's tech.
Plus f22 IR stealth even with those 2d nozzels will be worse than f35, j20,su57 due to use of more metal instead of composites.
Plus f22's majority metal airframe and it's relatively fragile stealth coating requires lot more maintinence causing it's availability rate to be low, though its older architecture will limit how much it can be upgraded, & with avionics&sensor upgrade it's availability will be even lower, and operational cost even higher.
At this point they should just buy more f35 and ditch f22, that extra maneuverability and supercruise ain't worth it all.