Indian Small Arms and Weapons

Baseplate said:
Machine guns rely more on a cone of fire than on accurate aiming for long distance but it's necessary to ensure stability.
While shoulder firing heavy machineguns you can't create that much stability, you can effectively engage upto a few hundered meters beyond which you will.just be laying suppression.
That's why modern squad level automatic weapons are kept in smaller calliper as they are easier to handle and can also be used effectively from the shoulder like insas lmg , m249 , rpk etc .
USMC has shifted from its M249 to M27 as according their new doctrine they focus more on accurate fire than the volume of fire .

For heavy lmgs like pkm you can do pretty well upto a limited distance like spestnaz does while shoulder firing. But that's something that needs very heavy training .

As for sigs again with proper training and a careful selection of ammunition and some modification they can also be run pretty well .
As for full auto there's grim chance that they will ever actually need to go cyclic with their rifles
Click to expand...
Thanks for answer (y)
 
Mr.Evil said:
Don’t really mind it tbh if they can pull similar quality as of sig I say that’s a win win situation
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Yeah , beg borrow steal , just somehow establish a small arms local manufacturing base with no dependency on foriegn countries, but ensure quality. At this point I don't care about what % is indigenous design etc....what matters is as less dependency on foriegn components and quality and forcing IA to buy massively from local arms makers like SSS, ASTR etc...
 
samsaptaka said:
Yeah , beg borrow steal , just somehow establish a small arms local manufacturing base with no dependency on foriegn countries, but ensure quality. At this point I don't care about what % is indigenous design etc....what matters is as less dependency on foriegn components and quality and forcing IA to buy massively from local arms makers like SSS, ASTR etc...
Click to expand...
U know it's not that hard (at leat making a standard AR/AK pattern rifle is not )... investment is huge but only if we had reassurance of orders or a good civil market I am pretty sure many pvt players will be more than happy to enter thus sector put money .

One more pain in the ass is testing Facilities and regulations.
 
Screenshot_2024-10-20-01-12-44-01_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.jpg
A masterclass in IDDM

> Initially a firm by the name Counter Measures Technology came up with an agreement to locally sell and allegedly make CZ gun here in India. They all delivered a few in some state police contracts.

> Now another firm by the name Vinveli is importing these same gun from CZ and selling them. Apparently this specific contract was won by them.

> Incidentally both the firms list the same gun on their websites
www.cmtpl.com

CMT-CZ Scorpion EVO 3 A1 | CMT

Lightweight automatic fiream uses a patented system of sliding bearing massive dynamic breech on the detachable trigger housing. The main advantages of the CMT CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1 submachine gun include sophisticated ergonomics, high accuracy in all shooting modes and absolute reliability...
www.cmtpl.com www.cmtpl.com
vinveli.in

CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1 - VINVELI India

Developed in close collaboration with elite professionals to address the needs of today’s armed forces. Its original and exceptionally simple construction is based on a patented blowback design of the bolt. Extremely durable fiberglass-reinforced polymers, together with other hi-tech materials...
vinveli.in vinveli.in

> The price quoted here is ₹78,000 per gun. On CZ's official store the price quoted is $489
czusafirearmstore.com

Buy CZ Scorpion EVO 3 A1 For Sale | CZ USA Firearms Store

The CZ Scorpion EVO 3 A1 is a compact submachine gun in 9mm Luger. With a blowback-operated action, the Scorpion can empty its magazine in a hair over 1 1/2
czusafirearmstore.com czusafirearmstore.com
Usually the price quoted in civilian market is much higher than that in government tender; you can easily look this up by going through the price at which 716i is offered on SIG Sauer's website and the price at which we got it. But for the sake of keeping things cite-able I'll go with civilian price.
$489 would be about ₹42,000

Adding Landing Charge of 1%, Basic Duty of 10%, IGST of 18% and Surcharge of 10% you get a total duty of about ₹18,000
Grand total of ₹60,000; the approximate price it should have been per gun if directly imported.

Today only we were discussing...
Ayan Barat said:
Sometimes the prices charged by local OEMs are absolutely bonkers compared to foreign ones.
Click to expand...
Corvus Splendens said:
That has less to do with overcharging citizens for profit, and more to do it with making it a nightmare for civilians to own even crap firearms for self defense.
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PSA : Whatever I said can be utter BS, believe at your own risk 🥱
 
ezsasa said:
this concept of family of small arms designed from ground up for domestic needs, which vivek has repeated in a few interviews by now. is there any domestically written academic/concept paper on this?
Click to expand...
Is there someone who will be bothered to write an academic paper on small arms in India?

SSS Defence started their journey with showcasing MDT Technology's rifles as their own, then the AK based P-72 and finally the M4 as M-72. ASTR guy came into limelight because of that SCAR ripoff and then came the SIG Sauer P320 in the form of Atal. And despite literally copying these are the "respected" people in my view as everyone else is just doing straight ScrewdriverGiri; from Jindal to PLR to Reliance to what not. How could you even think that someone would come up with a concept of any groundbreaking weapon here in India?

In past half a decade or so I've come across just one guy, JUST ONE who's doing something that really deserves to be called research or innovation.
 
Ayan Barat said:
Is there someone who will be bothered to write an academic paper on small arms in India?

SSS Defence started their journey with showcasing MDT Technology's rifles as their own, then the AK based P-72 and finally the M4 as M-72. ASTR guy came into limelight because of that SCAR ripoff and then came the SIG Sauer P320 in the form of Atal. And despite literally copying these are the "respected" people in my view as everyone else is just doing straight ScrewdriverGiri; from Jindal to PLR to Reliance to what not. How could you even think that someone would come up with a concept of any groundbreaking weapon here in India?

In past half a decade or so I've come across just one guy, JUST ONE who's doing something that really deserves to be called research or innovation.
Click to expand...

there are no free lunches, one has to get hold of "a bunch of academics" who can create an "intellectual" aura in written format around the product you intend to sell in the future. right infront of our eyes folks are running an intellectual scam worth billions of $ around a topic as boring as climate science targeting lowest common denominator. getting a white paper or concept paper written on "why creating a family of small arms should be a focus" surely needs a bit more effort.

it's not about a particular weapon, it's about planting an idea in the heads of future decision makers who are probably in ranks of major or lt. general at the moment.

yes, really smart people are rare, that's the way the world works. the triangle apples, as you go to the top there are fewer people.
 
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