Indian Small Arms and Weapons

[Zoid Raptor]

HPBT vs custom loads will also display some level of discrepancy in performance ?

Factory HPBT are pretty good outta the box but custom loads, when done right, will almost always outperform HPBT in terms of precision but the later aren't as practical when it comes to wide-scale military applications

At longer ranges like if you're pushing out to 1500+ yards where .338 LM is typically used, even small inconsistencies in velocity or drag coefficient start to compound where I wouldn't trust OFB ammo to perform.

I'm unsure of SSS's rifle performance but if you're using a high-end rifle like AXMC, MRAD or Desert-Tech (commonly used by US SOCOM Tier-1 units) HPBT is the norm unless you know your use case involves wind reading and transonic flight past 1 mile, where custom loads might come into play

 

[vampyrbladez]

L1A1 SLR and 4x INSAS 1B1 recovered after the encounter between COBRA 209 and Naxals in Bokaro, Jharkhand.

 

[BlackViking]

View attachment 31153
now even russian made AK-203 are coming with this ambidextrous thumb operated fire selector + moving dust cover (on any fire mode) - we should get any future mass production of our local AK-203 in Amethi factory done in this manner too, after all soldiers using INSAS and SIG-716I would benefit a lot from common training here
I know our guys rejected russian pattern folding + adjustable length buttstock and opted for AK-74M pattern full sized side folding buttstock, whatever that's still acceptable compromise but for future it's must to switch to standard fire selector thing when now we have a chance for going ahead with it

You will soon see modified AK203s, probably by year end. I came across some chatter regarding this. Probably will be adjustable folding butts, angled fore grips and MLOK aluminium hand guards along with sights

 

[johny_baba]

You will soon see modified AK203s, probably by year end. I came across some chatter regarding this. Probably will be adjustable folding butts, angled fore grips and MLOK aluminium hand guards along with sights

modified by who or what? like straight from Amethi factory or putting FAB or other aftermarket stuff on these "modern" AKs ?

first thing muh adjustable folding butt is so hypocritical when certain armyjeet on teligram had lengthy arguments with me over HOW GIVING TACTICAL BUTTSTOCK-ED AK TO CONTEMPORARY ARMY IS AKIN TO "INCREASE TRAINING KA KHARCHA" - i'll *CENSORED* him next time i encounter him and this happens

angled foregrips hhmm yeh toh abhi bhi kar hi sakte hai handguards ke neeche attachment laga kar

MLOK aluminium handguards seems right step

what kind of iron sights changes, if i may ask? like going back to aperture-peep sights thing with some BUIS or something else

AUR B#ENGH0D FACTORY SE STANDARDISED OPTICS NIKALO RE, YEH SERKARI OPTICS BANANE WAALE CHUTIYO KO TRIJCON ACOG YA KUCHH DHANG KA MAAL HAATH ME DO JISKI WOH DESI COPY BANA SAKE AUR MASS ISSUE HO SAKE YEH NAA HO SAKE TOH TONBO KO SAADHO

 

[BlackViking]

modified by who or what? like straight from Amethi factory or putting FAB or other aftermarket stuff on these "modern" AKs ?

first thing muh adjustable folding butt is so hypocritical when certain armyjeet on teligram had lengthy arguments with me over HOW GIVING TACTICAL BUTTSTOCK-ED AK TO CONTEMPORARY ARMY IS AKIN TO "INCREASE TRAINING KA KHARCHA" - i'll *CENSORED* him next time i encounter him and this happens

angled foregrips hhmm yeh toh abhi bhi kar hi sakte hai handguards ke neeche attachment laga kar

MLOK aluminium handguards seems right step

what kind of iron sights changes, if i may ask? like going back to aperture-peep sights thing with some BUIS or something else

AUR B#ENGH0D FACTORY SE STANDARDISED OPTICS NIKALO RE, YEH SERKARI OPTICS BANANE WAALE CHUTIYO KO TRIJCON ACOG YA KUCHH DHANG KA MAAL HAATH ME DO JISKI WOH DESI COPY BANA SAKE AUR MASS ISSUE HO SAKE YEH NAA HO SAKE TOH TONBO KO SAADHO

Not factory installed.
Fab+Eotech+Someone else for handguards

 

[VictorDelta4]

AUR B#ENGH0D FACTORY SE STANDARDISED OPTICS NIKALO RE, YEH SERKARI OPTICS BANANE WAALE CHUTIYO KO TRIJCON ACOG YA KUCHH DHANG KA MAAL HAATH ME DO JISKI WOH DESI COPY BANA SAKE AUR MASS ISSUE HO SAKE YEH NAA HO SAKE TOH TONBO KO SAADHO

ABSOLUTELY!!! Get Tonbo or anyone to create one that can be mass produced and bring them out as a package straight from the factory!!!

 

[VictorDelta4]

Not factory installed.
Fab+Eotech+Someone else for handguards

WOW! and then we are called nationalist anti nationals when we call out the blatant corruption that goes on with procurement policies!

 

[johny_baba]

Not factory installed.
Fab+Eotech+Someone else for handguards

TOH FIR MODERN KALASHNIKOV KI FACTORY DAALNE KA FAAYDAA HI KYAA JAB AISA MISTRI JAISA UPGRADES KE LIYE WAPAS IMPORTKHORI KARNI PADE

anyways thanks for info,
one of my very early post on good ol' D F I during late 2017 perhaps, was regarding Ghaatak rifle, that fork of INSAS in 7.62x39mm, and i suggested how it can be improved similar to polish Beryl rifle, with hinged top rails + galil style thumb operated fire selector + AR buffer tube adapter with folding feature to put any preferred tactical buttstock + better handguards and all...

overall a desi alternative to what we later got in Arsenal M5F41 here

years passed, yet situation overall remaining same, except now we have a modern AK that still needs upgrades from aftermarket

anyways, thanks a lot for info

 

[Baseplate]

ABSOLUTELY!!! Get Tonbo or anyone to create one that can be mass produced and bring them out as a package straight from the factory!!!

tonbo made a fixed 5x sight , guess how many i have seen till date with army --- once

Apollo-VX | Tonbo Imaging

tonboimaging.com

 

[Baseplate]

You will soon see modified AK203s, probably by year end. I came across some chatter regarding this. Probably will be adjustable folding butts, angled fore grips and MLOK aluminium hand guards along with sights

Pls pls ,make a full length handguard ; if not in requirement sell it aftermarket .

 

[Yt2211]

tonbo made a fixed 5x sight , guess how many i have seen till date with army --- once

Apollo-VX | Tonbo Imaging

tonboimaging.com

View attachment 31409

I'm pretty sure that's smash 2000

 

[johny_baba]

ABSOLUTELY!!! Get Tonbo or anyone to create one that can be mass produced and bring them out as a package straight from the factory!!!

our army closely followed british armaments doctrine (except perhaps with adopting sniper rifles/dmrs, where we drifted towards Dragunov, but brits themselves still had L1A1 + scope as dmr-ish rifle so overall still in that line, wish we had kept bolt action sniper things as mainstey though) - but brits themselves were keen to move on to optical sights wayyy back in post-ww2 trials of Enfield EM-2 bullpup that had some optical sight, same optical sight was also forked for L1A1 SLR but didn't see mass adoption, then they had SUIT 4x sight for their SLRs, and when they adopted assault rifle with SA80 pogrom they literally equipped every one of them with SUSAT 4x - AND BOTH SUIT AND SUSAT WERE TRITIUM ILLUMINATED FOR DUSK/DAWN STYLE OF LOW LIGHT FIGHTING APPLICATIONS

we have serkari optical sights that are akin to very old school technology of long-tubed refracting telescopes with some adjustments, for INSAS LMG and so, and that BEL made chunky night vision sights and all...AND YET IT'S NOT A STANDARD ISSUE HERE....

ab jab optics laga ke chalane laayak SIG-716i aur AK-203i le aaye hai toh optics par dhyaan do toh bhala ho sabka

 

[VictorDelta4]

ab jab optics laga ke chalane laayak SIG-716i aur AK-203i le aaye hai toh optics par dhyaan do toh bhala ho sabka

Come on man. If this happens then how will Pandey ji get to call us Nationalist anti nationals/Morons for expecting standardisation.

 

[username unkown]

ABSOLUTELY!!! Get Tonbo or anyone to create one that can be mass produced and bring them out as a package straight from the factory!!!

I think lpvo are going to replace fixed sight in general our dpsu or tonbo , mku should get few lpvo and mass produce it

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Watching IHR about Small Arms by Saurav Jha, Sandeep and Sriram. We are pretty much an joke at this stage.

Taking an US Fire team.

Before Sig Sauer - It is M4 along with an SAW which uses 5.56x45mm Round. There is commanality.
US Operated in this round for 5 decades now.
Now the are moving to 6.8x51 mm Round where rifle and SAW will share.

Now coming IA Fire team.

Fire Team A
1. AK 203i - 7.62x39mm
2. SAW will be NG7 which is 7.62x51mm

Fire Team B
1. Sig 716i - 7.62x51mm
2. NG7 - 7.62x51mm

Fire Team C (Somewhere from Southern Command)
1. INSAS - 5.56x45mm Round
2. INSAS LMG - 5.56x45mm Round.

Now the big brains in our IA decided to simplify this by ordering an AK round and NATO Round. Now the logistics is screwed up but in larger scale.

From IHR, Army also silently asking ARDE to start 6.8x43mm Round. Now are we going to move into this round. If yes, what about the AK203 and its corresponding loss in Tax payers money. Again with this round does Army select indigenous gun or simply do drama and wait for some highest bidder outside India.

This is the small section level problem IA created with respect to guns. The concept of scope is not touched since no one give a crap about it.

 

[VictorDelta4]

I think lpvo are going to replace fixed sight in general our dpsu or tonbo , mku should get few lpvo and mass produce it

In an ideal world, something like the EoTECH VUDU or the Trijicon VCOG would (and should) be our mass produced option.

 

[Baseplate]

I'm pretty sure that's smash 2000

idk it was claimed to be apollo

 

[johny_baba]

just a small recap of the kind of different kalashnikov and kalashnikov forks we have in armed forces
- INSAS 1B/1B1, of course
- INSAS Excalibur, Mk1, Mk1A, MK1C,
- INSAS LMG
- Kalashnikov, Russian Type 1 to Type 3 AK47, AKM etc
- Kalashnikov, Romanian PM md. 63, PM md. 65, PM md. 90 etc
- Kalashnikov, Hungarian AMD-63F at least
- Kalashnikov, Polish ones
- Kalashnikov, East German MPi series (MPi-KM-72, MPi-KMS-72 etc)
- Kalashnikov, Bulgarian Arsenal AR-M series (AR-M1, AR-M1F41, AR-M5F41 etc)
- Ghaatak Assault Rifle = Kalashnikov forked from INSAS 1B1 in 7.62x39mm
- Galil, carbines, assault rifles, Galatz DMR
- Amogh Carbine, in 5.56x30mm MINSAS
- MSMC and JVPC, in 5.56x30mm MINSAS
- Trichy Assault Rifle, Copy of Bulgarian Arsenal Kalashnikovs
- AK-103, AK-103M
- AK-203i
- Chinese / POF made Type-56, mostly captured and repurposed ones from various terrorshit subhumans
- RPK (some there at least, probably captured ones)
- PK / PKM machine guns (yeah it's a Kalashnikov fork)
- Negev / Negev NG-7 (same as above)
- FN M249 / Minimi (in some SF units) - both 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm, it's FNC fork but FNC's a loose fork of Kalashnikov, so yeah
- (if you count it based on tech) SIG SG550 series among SFs, SG-551, SG-552/553 etc


not in service yet for most parts, but still kalashnikov forks
- INSAS' very first, mostly export oriented "Assault Rifle" fork with Safe-Semi Automatic-3 Round Burst and Full Automatic, hence 4-position fire selector (shouldn't this have been standard issue INSAS than muh 1B thing with only Safe-Semi Automatic-3 Round Burst ?)
- INSAS Bullpups, at least two distinct variants, first one from 90s when INSAS was into prototype stage, later one from 2020s by perhaps Col. Prakash Bansod
- some 'MRF-91' copy of standard AKM, most likely a predecessor of current Ghaatak assault rifles
- ARDE's 5.56x30mm Carbine, based on SIG-550 design
- Ugram rifle in 7.62x51mm
- 6.8x43mm fork of ARDE Carbine
- 'Indian Assault Rifle' in 5.56x45mm = INSAS Excalibur Mk1C fork with further enhancement
- 'Ishapore Assault Rifle' in 7.62x51mm = INSAS Excalibur Mk1C fork in that calibre, previously also called OFB R2
- 'Ishapore Carbine' = INSAS Excalibur Mk1C fork in carbine short barrel
- some Trichy fork in 7.62x51mm, was showcased in some exhibition
- Kalantak 'Micro Assault Rifle' = INSAS 1B1 carbine fork
- TriCa = Trichy Carbine = AKS-74U styled fork of Trichy in 7.62x39mm
- OFB made PKT = vehicle mounted version of PKM (yeah it's a Kalashnikov fork, also, IF OUR GUYS CAN MAKE PKT HERE HOW THE HELL THEY DIDN'T FORK OUT STANDARD PKM OUT OF IT, 'SPECIALLY WHEN IT'S ALREADY IN SERVICE?! )
- Galil ACE series, as offered by Adani PLR
- SSS Defense's P72 assault rifle
- some of those desi defense manufacturer's AK copies, like Astr Defense and so, that they proudly flashed in some defense expos, but never shown again outside those things

this is all i can count in my head so far, do add if i'm missing anything from here, though i think if i go through my photo library in pc i might be able to find some more

 

[BlackViking]

Pls pls ,make a full length handguard ; if not in requirement sell it aftermarket .

View attachment 31410

150-200gm me full length handguard ban jayega?

 

[VictorDelta4]

150-200gm me full length handguard ban jayega?

Is that what they specified as weight requirements?
Apparently Zenitco B30U Lower is 193gms, B30 Lower - 276gms