Indian Economy (16 Viewers)

like getting out of your house is death warrant in India.
It actually is right now, thanks to municipal baboons accumulating sewer trash and destroying footpaths to rebuild them again for no reason. I twisted my ankle last week due to this. Don't downplay the amount of urban shitholery of major Indian cities, in monsoons it become unfathomable.
 
Things won't be better with Congress either.

The issue is with DEMOCRACY.

Tell me, do you think Congress will punish the Government employees responsible for the project or the Private contractors who do infra projects?

DEMOCRACY and Bureaucracy under Democracy ensure that nobody faces consequences for bad infra.
Issue is the other systems are not perfect either. Dictatorship like you see in China has its own flaws. It can very efficient at purging officials, but depending on the main guy it can go either way. CCP almost starved their own people to death under Mao, destroyed many of their own culture, etc. If it wasn't for the American blessings they would be a shithole worse than sub Saharan african countries by now.
 
It actually is right now, thanks to municipal baboons accumulating sewer trash and destroying footpaths to rebuild them again for no reason. I twisted my ankle last week due to this. Don't downplay the amount of urban shitholery of major Indian cities, in monsoons it become unfathomable.
I'm not downplaying. There is issue. But angry India is saying like people shouldn't talk about economical growth because that is irrelevant. That is not the truth. Economical growth doesn't come without infrastructural growth. There have been issues but there also have been growth in that front too. You can't deny that. There are systematic problems with it. We can all discuss that in a more appropriate ways but what he did was just your avg xitter rant of "Endia khatam hogawa, Dunia Jalgawa" type bs. I didn't react in this way, when Azaad pointed out problem with our municipality in a previous post, because he pointed out in a more appropriate manner..
 
Things won't be better with Congress either.

The issue is with DEMOCRACY.

Tell me, do you think Congress will punish the Government employees responsible for the project or the Private contractors who do infra projects?

DEMOCRACY and Bureaucracy under Democracy ensure that nobody faces consequences for bad infra.

It actually is right now, thanks to municipal baboons accumulating sewer trash and destroying footpaths to rebuild them again for no reason. I twisted my ankle last week due to this. Don't downplay the amount of urban shitholery of major Indian cities, in monsoons it become unfathomable.

Nexus between local politicians and contractors is the reason behind this

And it is a bipartisan matter, you'd find this in TMC's Kolkata, DMK's Chennai or the assorted Bhajipao and Congi controlled cities.

Here they were digging perfectly ok roads for ((( concretization ))) and ofc it's shittily done so the concrete is coming off now 🤡

In my case i think municipal elections are pending so they're trying to ((( spend ))) the existing budget before the election

Urban infra is a nationwide issue and electing xyz party doesn't seem to solve it.
 
Man dies After falling into an open drain in Gurugram. This just a few days after a graphic designer was electrocuted by a live wire dangling on a flooded road.

View attachment 43140

The situation in India today is so dire that you cannot walk even 10 meters from your home without significantly risking your life. Last month, I was walking toward the revenue inspector's office to pay my land tax when street dogs attacked me. Thankfully, I had a long-handled umbrella to protect myself.
Even if you manage to escape street dogs and other dangerous animals, you still face open drains, potholes, exposed live wires, reckless driving, and poor traffic management—any of which could send you straight to the grave.

This is why debating GDP growth rates and the size of the economy is pointless when safe living conditions remain elusive.
Sewers -- Municipality or Development Authority Responsibility

Situation has improved much more than in past. Now Open Sewers are not as common as they were in past. In past they will not even made into headlines. But now they do. Ofcourse we need to improve even more and eliminate this problem completely. The real bottleneck is we know to outrage when an incident happen else people go unbothered daily. Most of the people are actually not bothered by poking Sewers in middle of the road. No one complains to the authority. Its business as usual unless someone dies.

I will suggest don't get your blood pressure up. If you see an open sewer or a broken manhole cover atleast complain to the police. Yes, They will be like what??? But in end if many people complain or you pester them with complain they themselves will go to the responsible authority and get it fixed. Its better than loosing patience in municiaplity departments. Give the policeman high BP. Remember Police Department is eyes and ear of the state government too. Once the complains start reaching them. It makes way to the upper echeleons and into anti-incumbency brief to CM.
 
It's an anecdote.

My family shifted recently from Tirupati to Hyderabad.

My mother complains on a daily basis on how bad the municipality stuff is in Hyderabad compared to a tier 3 city like Tirupati. Our large metros are broken with no accountability. BTW, it's Congress in power in Hyderabad.
 
It's an anecdote.

My family shifted recently from Tirupati to Hyderabad.

My mother complains on a daily basis on how bad the municipality stuff is in Hyderabad compared to a tier 3 city like Tirupati. Our large metros are broken with no accountability. BTW, it's Congress in power in Hyderabad.
True. There is very little accountability. India’s municipal system really needs a structural reform. One of the biggest issues is how little connection there is between local governments and the people they serve. Apart from election season, there’s hardly any real communication. Most people feel like they have no say in how their neighbourhood is managed, and municipalities often seem slow or indifferent to everyday issues. Meanwhile, countries like Japan show us a different way. There, communities regularly take part in keeping their surroundings clean, managing waste, or even helping plan local improvements. And importantly, their efforts are appreciated. Local governments acknowledge and support these contributions, which builds a sense of pride and shared ownership. While it is true that Indian municipality has very little financial capabilities, they still have enough to build such relationships.But they simply don't have that intent.

In India, that kind of cooperation is still rare. It’s not because people don’t care, but because they often don’t feel seen or supported. When citizens do try to step up, they’re usually left to do it alone. If we want to build better cities, we need both stronger local bodies and a mindset that encourages teamwork between people and municipalities. Local governments should not just function better, they should feel closer, more open, and more human. But, what we have are some human shaped vote taking machine who shows up on election season.
 
in my paternal village, like usual villages. pre 1980, the situation was 0 all weather road. but with links from politicians, we got asphalt road and concrete road. and a main sewer line on the main road just like a city has. if your politicians want to do work, they can.
our village regularly does repair of sewer system. reconstructed it in 2016 with funds. even made a footpath on it. but got encroached by sand, stone and construction items and sometimes cows.
 
It's an anecdote.

My family shifted recently from Tirupati to Hyderabad.

My mother complains on a daily basis on how bad the municipality stuff is in Hyderabad compared to a tier 3 city like Tirupati. Our large metros are broken with no accountability. BTW, it's Congress in power in Hyderabad.
Yeah, I too feel like it. It appears to be the case in HR atleast. Electricity supply is more reliable. Streets are paved with tile bricks. Major streets have a rainwater drainage channel. Sewers are covered. Tap water supply is reliable. Trash is picked up daily. Heavy footfall areas are concretized. Roads are more smoother than a decade back. They are also more wide. Even villages have the same facilities like cities. All have paved streets and connected with roads. Now big villages are even getting ring streets (feerani) bounding them. Major paths between neigboring villages are now paved. Heck even some farm field streets are getting paved now.
All in all life for an average joe in Tier 3-4 Cities is better.
 
Yeah, I too feel like it. It appears to be the case in HR atleast. Electricity supply is more reliable. Streets are paved with tile bricks. Major streets have a rainwater drainage channel. Sewers are covered. Tap water supply is reliable. Trash is picked up daily. Heavy footfall areas are concretized. Roads are more smoother than a decade back. They are also more wide. Even villages have the same facilities like cities. All have paved streets and connected with roads. Now big villages are even getting ring streets (feerani) bounding them. Major paths between neigboring villages are now paved. Heck even some farm field streets are getting paved now.
All in all life for an average joe in Tier 3-4 Cities is better.
One more thing i forgo to add. Earlier village ponds only had one or two ghats with only a few ponds having some boundary wall. Now almost every pond has a boundary wall and ghat. Water channel to farm fields are also concretized now.
I think people are not noticing how sneakily urban and rural infra is improving in India, atleast in HR.

Well, I will list one bad thing too, the liberal proliferation of unscientific speed breakers. Sometimes its feels like every one is having their own personal speed breakers in front of their houses. Just too many speed breakers. Every other street seems to have a speed breaker. (exaggeration of course)
 
Only way to measure accuracy is to have the same students take an international test like PISA or something
Funny thing is our govt and a lot of citizens get pissy, when you tell them that avg indian students got no analytical skill.

Cbse is by no mean is the gold standard of education but holy shit state boards are whole diffence tier of being shitty, bad teachers, bad infra, and genuinely shitty syllabus all of this comes into play.

Another factor is how our exams are conducted,any of you may have not known but state boards have tendency to often repeat questions as is from previous years and then there is fact that most questions pretty much require no ability to actually apply an concept, this creates a situation where most of our students can only apply a formula they have rote many times over.

2009 Pisa perfomance actually gets much worse then you realise than we decide to only test kids form tamilanadu and Himachal hoping that we would bring good results, and guess what, we still got clobbered.

This article goes over some pretty good points on why :- https://www.edtechreview.in/trends-...a-test-why-do-indian-students-struggle/?amp=1

Essentially it's not that questions were "out of context" , the main reason was it revealed the issue with our glorious education system.
 
Funny thing is our govt and a lot of citizens get pissy, when you tell them that avg indian students got no analytical skill.

Cbse is by no mean is the gold standard of education but holy shit state boards are whole diffence tier of being shitty, bad teachers, bad infra, and genuinely shitty syllabus all of this comes into play.

Another factor is how our exams are conducted,any of you may have not known but state boards have tendency to often repeat questions as is from previous years and then there is fact that most questions pretty much require no ability to actually apply an concept, this creates a situation where most of our students can only apply a formula they have rote many times over.

2009 Pisa perfomance actually gets much worse then you realise than we decide to only test kids form tamilanadu and Himachal hoping that we would bring good results, and guess what, we still got clobbered.

This article goes over some pretty good points on why :- https://www.edtechreview.in/trends-...a-test-why-do-indian-students-struggle/?amp=1

Essentially it's not that questions were "out of context" , the main reason was it revealed the issue with our glorious education system.
True. One can easily observe the consequences of this from the rise of private education which is largely due to the poor quality of state-run schools. Some state boards were still using outdated syllabi until just a few years ago. The fact that it took them so long to even catch up with NCERT standards says a lot. Even in states like Tamil Nadu, for instance, basic analytical skills among students in government schools have been on the decline, and alarmingly so. Even their academic scores aren’t impressive, yet somehow the actual skill levels are getting worse.

Private schools aren’t necessarily exceptional either. At best, they offer the kind of education central schools used to provide a few years ago, which wasn’t extraordinary to begin with. But because the standard of state schools has dropped so low in recent years, even an average private school seems superior in comparison.

And I agree, how can we expect kids to develop analytical thinking when their entire education revolves around memorising textbooks and practising previous years' question papers? There's little to no room for actual understanding or critical thought in such a system where kids only mug up sample papers or guide books.
 
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As per the public information that's available, China has stalled/paused exports of
1) TBMs - Construction sector
2) Fertilizers- Agriculture sector
3) Rare Earths- Manufacturing sector
4) Equipment & personnel for Iphones- Manufacturing sector/ exports

to India.

I am sure there's more to the list, it's unprecedented tbh, but it also shows how nervous China is when it comes to India.
 
Funny thing is our govt and a lot of citizens get pissy, when you tell them that avg indian students got no analytical skill.

on the contrary, the reason NEP came about in 2020 is because one of the points made by the industry was taken aboard by this gormint(central).

policy side background goes like this:

UPA and affiliated intellectuals, for almost a decade prior to 2014 were saying, India missed the manufacturing bus. service sector is our pathway to growth. adding more sectors to industry was not on their agenda because their economic worldview was limited to wealth redistribution by the state and not wealth redistribution via economic growth. aka nehruvian socialism.

NDA gormint disagreed with this, their economic worldview is that poverty alleviation has to come thru economic growth, meaning there has to be additional wealth in the basket to re-distribute within the society in a productive manner. their point was, all avenues of job creation including manufacturing will have to be explored, even if it goes against prevailing global opinion pre-2015 that India will be world's backoffice and IT, china will be manufacturing power house, europe will be knowledge economy, and U.S will be economic and security guarantor of the world.

farm laws, focus on textiles, focus on tourism and even space and defence manufacturing etc, all of them are based on same core fundamental i.e exploring more avenues of economic growth and job creation.

once it has been decided revival of manufacturing has to be undertaken, Industry's point was, people with degrees are of no use to our companies, if they don't have skill. this gap occurred in the first place, because previous central gormint did not focus on skilling, states like TN did because their industrial policy is one of the best in the country for decades. companies wanted to frontload the skills education during the education phase, instead of having to run 6 month courses after giving employment letters, or at the minimum as much skill to be imparted during education phase so that remaining delta can happen after giving employment letter.

some companies like tata's have gone to the extent of saying, we are willing to put in our own money to up-skill students, contributing to local and national pool of skilled labour, irrespective of whether they join TATA or not.

that's when NEP came about, media wallahs focussed on language and history because their worldview is marxist, but NEP's main goal is to make the students ready for the jobs.

then comes the issue of gap between demand and supply, there will always be a lag because of the scale of the country. but in the case of education, it is largely dependant on state gormints.

how your discussion fits into this background is that, analytical thinking has a correlation with high level skills, and skills have a correlation with jobs, and skilled jobs have a correlation with economic growth.
 
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on the contrary, the reason NEP came about in 2020 is because one of the points made by the industry was taken aboard by this gormint(central).

policy side background goes like this:

UPA and affiliated intellectuals, for almost a decade prior to 2014 were saying, India missed the manufacturing bus. service sector is our pathway to growth. adding more sectors to industry was not on their agenda because their economic worldview was limited to wealth redistribution by the state and not wealth redistribution via economic growth. aka nehruvian socialism.

NDA gormint disagreed with this, their economic worldview is that poverty alleviation has to come thru economic growth, meaning there has to be additional wealth in the basket to re-distribute within the society in a productive manner. their point was, all avenues of job creation including manufacturing will have to be explored, even if it goes against prevailing global opinion pre-2015 that India will be world's backoffice and IT, china will be manufacturing power house, europe will be knowledge economy, and U.S will be economic and security guarantor of the world.

I get my BP high when i think we missed the whole decade plus where we could have grown our manufacturing just because of these Raghuram Rajan esque "opinions" and assumptions.

In that time the global climate was good, it was much easier to get investments, Choina was not as aggressive.

Chorgress just sat on it

Today in this drought of a global climate we now have to do mujra to get manufacturing investments when there are over 9 other competitor countries
 
I get my BP high when i think we missed the whole decade plus where we could have grown our manufacturing just because of these Raghuram Rajan esque "opinions" and assumptions.

In that time the global climate was good, it was much easier to get investments, Choina was not as aggressive.

Chorgress just sat on it

Today in this drought of a global climate we now have to do mujra to get manufacturing investments when there are over 9 other competitor countries

in practical terms, "missing the bus" translates to opportunity cost.

meaning if an expressway was to be completed a decade ago, it would have costed 1000 crores, now it costs 6000 crores.
if a company has expanded a decade ago, it would have costed 1000 crores, now it costs 2000 crores.

etc.

nothing much can be done now, other than paying the opportunity cost to build the capacity and capability that should have been completed a decade ago, and move on, within the limits of resources available ofcourse.
 

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