Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (79 Viewers)

[FalconSlayers]

What a junk these YIHA drones were. Expensive and useless. Fuckin piston engines running these slow and noisy turkish crap

 

[ezsasa]

The thinking in Pakistan establishment before Op Sindoor was that India has much more to lose in conflict with Pakistan given it's higher gdp, growth rate and FDI. And Pakistan is already stagnating and has less to lose in comparison. This in their thinking deterred conflict with India and gave them space for unconventional warfare against India.

If this is the thinking in India too then why even bother with Op Sindoor type of operations and rhetoric, India can just absorb the pain like it was done pre 2016.

do check if this answers you question.

at some point all these "would have" "could have" theoretical assumptions have to consciously fall back on reality checks for confirmation. reality check here is what has been stated and executed by the actual main players in the game, in this case the gormint and security forces. they checked almost every box, that security focussed intelligentsia of the country have been debating on.

we need to have clarity on what has been achieved:

- demonstrate that terrorism is the primary issue between India and pakistan.
- combat proven tag to many of the defence equipment
- raise the cost of an misadventure i.e deterrence
- demonstrate restraint factored into the operational planning
- find space for conventional deterrence, as a response to sub-conventional warfare imposed by paki army.
- find space for conventional retaliation under nuclear overhang.
- call out nuclear bluff
- let pakis know, pakjabi heartland is no longer out of bounds
- there is space for both kinetic and non-kinetic responses.
- remind pakis of their lack of strategic depth .
- erase the distinction between jihadis and their state sponsors.


if folks want to apply their mind, and add more chapters to the playbook, can use the above mentioned points as the new baseline and build on it. we also have to be careful not to over read the outcomes, beyond a point so much so that it blurs the lines between hallucinations and reality.

 

[snakeeyes07]

do check if this answers you question.

People should realise and come out of this comparison mentality, our economic growth shouldn't be derailed over some worthless failed state. We shouldn't sacrifice anything, and we should ensure that.

But in interest of economic growth, if India doesn't hit back next time then it is back to square one. Established deterrence will start withering away and be gone entirely soon enough.

If India hits back but doesn't ensure escalation dominance then it will be Pakistan who would be thinking that they have established deterrence. In this case, even though you can argue that sub-conventional warfare is not cost free for them anymore, but giving Pakistan military a sense that they can achieve escalation dominance with India is more dangerous in my opinion.

 

[Savageking456]

They don't have anything worth extracting. "Waferless" kuchh bhi? The TATA fab is literally a wafer fab worth $11 billion. There is a Micron OSAT semiconductor plant worth $3 bn in Sanand as well. A petrochem refinery getting hit is no joke. How difficult is it to comprehend?

Yeah
Billions of dollars worth investment losing will be detrimental
I'm sure GoI also knows this hence all this Measured non-escalatory nonsense
I also want pakjabi ships being splitted in half and it will happen probably
But completely getting rid of pakistan is not possible(unless 1.Its nuked 2.balkanized)

 

[snakeeyes07]

Yeah
Billions of dollars worth investment losing will be detrimental
I'm sure GoI also knows this hence all this Measured non-escalatory nonsense

From a strategic perspective, why so many billions dollars worth of industry and data center is being concentrated in Jamnagar?

There are safer and more distant places from Pakistan in Gujarat itself.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

But in interest of economic growth, if India doesn't hit back next time then it is back to square one. Established deterrence will start withering away and be gone entirely soon enough.

If India hits back but doesn't ensure escalation dominance then it will be Pakistan who would be thinking that they have established deterrence.

People are not relevant here. GoI isnt total duffers. Op Sindoor remains pretty much only operation in last 20 years where massive damage is dealt at the cost of nil losses, at worst, negligible losses ( 5 planes cost to bow up 11 airbases and terror sites, including nook storage facility is the bargain of the century), even if true.

In such a scenario, India has zero reason to not strike back, unless overwhelming intelligence is recieved of PAK recieving some sort of game-changer strike capability to retaliate in disproportionate ways.

Pak has done a lot on social media, but reality is simple - we have no record of any local media of any credibility of any losses taken, that the govt is trying to hide and 5 planes going down is going to leave SOME sort of local new trail ( at least weird truck movements to retrieve debris etc)- which is all lacking.

So reality is, this has been a blowout victory for India. In such a status quo, India has zero reasons to sit back and take a repeat Pehlgam 2.0 scenario and do kari-ninda and nothing else.

 

[Savageking456]

People are not relevant here. GoI isnt total duffers. Op Sindoor remains pretty much only operation in last 20 years where massive damage is dealt at the cost of nil losses, at worst, negligible losses ( 5 planes cost to bow up 11 airbases and terror sites, including nook storage facility is the bargain of the century), even if true.

In such a scenario, India has zero reason to not strike back, unless overwhelming intelligence is recieved of PAK recieving some sort of game-changer strike capability to retaliate in disproportionate ways.

Pak has done a lot on social media, but reality is simple - we have no record of any local media of any credibility of any losses taken, that the govt is trying to hide and 5 planes going down is going to leave SOME sort of local new trail ( at least weird truck movements to retrieve debris etc)- which is all lacking.

So reality is, this has been a blowout victory for India. In such a status quo, India has zero reasons to sit back and take a repeat Pehlgam 2.0 scenario and do kari-ninda and nothing else.

5 aircrafts were not shot down
There were 3 wreckages 2 aircrafts and 1 drone as per initial estimates
P0rkis too initially came up with 2 aircraft being shot down but later they exaggerated the claim since their response was very weak so they had to make up big claims
Besides pakis are also hiding their own loss
We have video evidence of their kaum finding pilot in their territory I'm sure it was theirs

 

[FalconSlayers]

Wake up babe, fauji foundation has officially released documentary of their operation chaddi-banyan-ul-manboobs

View: https://youtu.be/9ipldlwguHI?si=wOn8EdXZt-ckgblo




You'd expect it to be filled with evidences? No, you ignorant kuffar! It's filled entirely with edited clips of Indian and western media anchors

Anyone with single digit IQ can comprehend this is just a low quality propaganda meant to sell their jahil awaam. Full of islam and jingoistic rocket firing over India while hitting nothing. I expected better from ISPR, which is their biggest movie producer


But you gotta agree, they do know perception warfare and what buzzwords, memes and videos sell better to their jahil awaam.

 

[ezsasa]

But in interest of economic growth, if India doesn't hit back next time then it is back to square one. Established deterrence will start withering away and be gone entirely soon enough.

If India hits back but doesn't ensure escalation dominance then it will be Pakistan who would be thinking that they have established deterrence.

that's the game, it's not a binary of 0 and 1, between 0 & 1, there is 0.1, 0.2 all the way to 1.

for both nations,finding space to execute respective tactical and strategic goals is the game.

if folks are interested, figuring out pakjabi's next move is worth investing time in.
being judgemental about something that has already happened is easy, figuring out what is going to happen next while staying within known terms of reference is the hard part.

 

[Drwho]

The way this drama is going it seems only trump will spill the beans.
Who lost what. Because till now public on both side is happy that we won.
But realising that we both lost a few important assets will fume them.
Trump is having full masti fun with both countries.

 

[Adibot]

UN designated terrorist Masood Azhar reportedly spotted in Skardu, PoJK. Acc to intelligence inputs, he is freely moving in Gilgit-Baltistan under full state protection. Recent mock drill in Skardu Airport is a coverup. They are planning a massive terrorist attack sooner. Pak received multiple warheads from china & turkey, testing and preparation are underway by PAF.

Recent developments point to that only
They just want to burn jammu at any cost, they want to get a hit anywhere in India and US may be with them to arm twist us into giving into their demands
We are still not fully prepared I think
They have an aavam that is literally cannon fodder and that's what they will throw at us
Do we have any defense against Chinese and turkish missiles and warheads
The news ones that are being supplied
Also they are playing some tricks to saturate our satelite intelligence

 

[Ajith Kamath]

Hosting cost.

Let us know how we can contribute. We need to make this as brand

 

[MasterChief]

Which target is this? Previously unreported?

View: https://x.com/rajfortyseven/status/1946437677403844843

Takla Raj.. is just looking for eyeballs..
Does not mention before / after .. satellite image dates..

 

[snakeeyes07]

View: https://x.com/Dig_raw21/status/1946423603215610274

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1946470608977690963

 

[shade2]

I think the crippling effect on economy/nation will be order of magnitudes higher on Pakistani side than India. India will have alternate supply chain and plants elsewhere and much more financial capital to bring damaged infra back online soon.

For example, hypothetically if India destroys Karachi port and Pakistan destroys JNPT, India would still have alternate mega ports but with Pakistan almost 80% capacity be gone for years.

Pakistan is a beggar with a fata hua filthy salwar.

India is a businessman with 3 piece italian silk suit and platinum cufflinks.

If both get into a fight to make each other nanga guess who loses the most?

Till we build up our armed forces to overwhelming superiority viz Pak & parity against China Op Sindoor style short conflicts are best.


Anyway if they hit Jamnagar we must make sure their ports, oil storage, air bases, aircraft, ships sabka swaha ho jaye

 

[MasterChief]

But in interest of economic growth, if India doesn't hit back next time then it is back to square one. Established deterrence will start withering away and be gone entirely soon enough.

If India hits back but doesn't ensure escalation dominance then it will be Pakistan who would be thinking that they have established deterrence. In this case, even though you can argue that sub-conventional warfare is not cost free for them anymore, but giving Pakistan military a sense that they can achieve escalation dominance with India is more dangerous in my opinion.

You want a happily ever after Fairy tale ?
There is no such thing with Pakistan.. Deterrence established by India has always had an expiry date.. Be it 65 war, 71 war, or 2016, 2019 or Operator Sindoor..
What India gets in return for Kicking Pakistan in the head, is a few years of respite until the next big attacks... How many years of respite from a big attacks..? I don't know..
But, India will not be strong enough to impose a final Solution to Pakistan, atleast for another 2 decades .

 

[Simon Riley]

it is pointless to discuss and ruminate over trump's statement, we already know that jets have been downed on both sides. From a political pov opposition may use this to target bjp again and paijans with 30000 black fighter jets will use his statement to validate their claim to 'victory'. so, nothing new comes of it, the cycle only repeats.

 

[shade2]

it is pointless to discuss and ruminate over trump's statement, we already know that jets have been downed on both sides. From a political pov opposition may use this to target bjp again and paijans with 30000 black fighter jets will use his statement to validate their claim to 'victory'. so, nothing new comes of it, the cycle only repeats.

More than Dolund i would be concerned about vague statements from the CDS and Defence Secretary

If Rafale was shot down, politically it would be very difficult to do a G2G purchase of additional Rafales.

By politically i mean Raul will raise a hissy fit and Leaderji will get scared.

So if not Rafale then F16? F15? Leaderji wants to appeasementmaxxxx with Dolund so those are very possible purchases.

 

[snakeeyes07]

You want a happily ever after Fairy tale ?
There is no such thing with Pakistan.. Deterrence established by India has always had an expiry date.. Be it 65 war, 71 war, or 2016, 2019 or Operator Sindoor..
What India gets in return for Kicking Pakistan in the head, is a few years of respite until the next big attacks... How many years of respite from a big attacks..? I don't know..
But, India will not be strong enough to impose a final Solution to Pakistan, atleast for another 2 decades .

I don't get it if people just reply without reading or understanding the posts.

This is precisely what I am arguing that don't give up the momentum and precedence that Op Sindoor established. To hit back next time even if there is risk of economic targets getting hit during next cycle of hostilities/exchange otherwise the deterrence effect will be lost. Just like Op Sindoor, it is important for India to have the escalation dominance by the end and not to conclude it like the Balakot exchange.

I raised a question that if economic interests are supreme and India do not want to accept losses in case Pakistan chooses to keep climbing the escalation ladder then why do Op Sindoor and rhetoric at all. To clarify, my position is that India should keep climbing the escalation ladder until Pakistan backs down.

Earlier replies for context


---

---

 

[shade2]

I don't get it if people just reply without reading or understanding the posts.

This is precisely what I am arguing that don't give up the momentum and precedence that Op Sindoor established. To hit back next time even if there is risk of economic targets getting hit during next cycle of hostilities/exchange otherwise the deterrence effect will be lost. Just like Op Sindoor, it is important for India to have the escalation dominance by the end and not to conclude it like the Balakot exchange.

I raised a question that if economic interests are supreme and India do not want to accept losses in case Pakistan chooses to climb the escalation ladder then why do Op Sindoor and rhetoric at all. To clarify, my position is that India should keep climbing the escalation ladder until Pakistan backs down.

Earlier replies for context

The next escalation should cripple them into being unable to resist us conventionally, therefore reigning in their jihadi pets.

By crippling i mean sink the PN, destroy the PAF as much as possible, especially planes on the ground, destroy PA ammo and tank/arty storage sites.

Otherwise they won't "back down" they'll lick their wounds and make a comeback like their idol Ghori did.

OTOH because of the crippling they'll sell themselves fully to China which will make Uncle Sam behave himself and come to us instead of trying to vassalize us to work with Pakistan