DRDO and PSUs

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Bleh said:
At 600 kg weight & 5m length giving 250km range, this should definitely be an air to surface weapon 😕



Same with the STAR. In A2A mode this could kill all enemy AWACS & ground radars in A2G mode. Why don't we have our own R-37 equivalent
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It's in testing I think
 
Bleh said:
At 600 kg weight & 5m length giving 250km range, this should definitely be an air to surface weapon 😕



Same with the STAR. In A2A mode this could kill all enemy AWACS & ground radars in A2G mode. Why don't we have our own R-37 equivalent
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Because IAF hasn't asked Drdo for something like R37 otherwise we would have seen some kind of project on it.
 
ArjunMK1A said:
Yup, you need an successor aircraft to SU30 class heavy fighters. People here cheering for dozens of F-35, SU-57 not getting the clear picture. Buying this planes is like renting the bike, you can use it happily buy you cannot modify anything and the lender may ask high prize for doing the job.


F35
1. No access to the Radars.
2. Collected information will be passed into centralized USAF Database.
3. High probability of disallowing mating of Indigenous/Russian weapons.
4. Subjected to US Whims.

SU57
1. Inferior Stealth.
2. Russian Engines have similar Power output but poor Life. (known problem IAF faced).
3. Inferior Avionics.
4. Too much upgradation India needs to pick up similar to SU30 Program. Which questions that are we buying Ariframe and engines only.

Advantages of an Indian Platform.

1. Complete control over Mission computers, Radars.
2. Ability to mate Russian, Indian, Western weapons without asking permission.
3. Indian Avionics can be mated and optimized very well.
4. By having an Airframe design, Indian Scientist have clear understanding regarding the aerodynamic behavior of various designs. Helps them in long term when we are designing future platforms.
How do we think Tejas MK2, AMCA in better timeline. The precursor is Tejas Program which shed lights on various things like Control laws, Aerodynamics of the design we have taken. Billions lines of data points we are having from these program.

ADA needs to develop the Next gen Heavy fighter. GOI should start loosing up their purses. GTRE needs testing facility and we are not ready to provide anything to them. More the data we collect, more we can understand and improve the product.

No Full fledge Wind Tunnel, No FTB and we are expecting these guys to give F404/F414 style engines by moving the engines to Russia for FTB, Germany for Wind tunnel testing. Just massive delays in just doing test alone.

Also Ghatak does not get any funding till now. MOD babus were sitting on files on average 4-5 years and then everyone blames the DRDO, HAL and other vendors. ISTAR, SCA planes were not get any fund, Netra MK2 were stuck in intermediate steps, Netra MK1 (buying second hand ERJ-145) is stuck. Netra MK1 and MK2 can be easily done in 5 years.

Within 5 years, IAF can rapidly expand its AWACS capability.

1. Netra MK1 based on ERJ 145 - 3 + 6 (Second hand frame)
2. Netra MK2 based on Airbus A321 - 6.
3. ISTAR, SCA - Procure the Planes.

Speed run the CATS Program which may give CATS Hunter PGM which is similar to SCALP. Lot of stuffs India needs to do on faster level to gain good military capability.
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Listen , your points are indeed valid are good .
But we are known users of russi maal.
Sukhoi 30 mki performed superb.
IF we ought to buy, buy su 57 .
Change avionics to ours , plus we have experience in dealing with Russians .that's why
 
Corvus Splendens said:
Launch it from a fighter and we get desi Rampage.
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I could never make sense of IAF buying Rampage out of the blue.
Had they asked DRDO to put guided Pinaka on Sukhois and DRDO declined?
Air launched Pinaka should be a low hanging fruit (3 yrs), have a decent range(~150kms) and will be sasta-sundar-tikaoo($100-200k per round?)
 
Magadha Naresh said:
Listen , your points are indeed valid are good .
But we are known users of russi maal.
Sukhoi 30 mki performed superb.
IF we ought to buy, buy su 57 .
Change avionics to ours , plus we have experience in dealing with Russians .that's why
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Su-30MKI is superb because of the extensive third party customisation which is done along decades of experience and tactics developed for it.

When it comes to Su-57, IAF already pulled out of FGFA citing the aircraft not meeting their requirements. It's stealth, better than Su-30 but similar to or a little less than those other high end 4.5 gen aircrafts like Typhoon or Rafale, thanks to some design features.

Avionics again u need to put your own.

Tactics u need to develop from scratch. Su-30 tactics won't work with Su-57.

So, if u buy Su-57, what are u exactly buying? A heavy fighter aircraft sure, but does it meet your stealth requirements? No. Does it have cutting edge avionics? No, u will customise it. Does u have tactics already in place? No. Just because we operated a system doesn't mean the successor to that system we need to operate. Su-57 has been designed based on Soviet Philosophy, prioritising Maneuverability over Stealth. IAF philosophy is different.

Heck I will argue purchasing more Su-30 MkI and upgrading to Super Sukhoi standard will be more logical decision than Su-57.

EDIT: Also, during MMRCA it was Rafale and Typhoon which cleared the technical phase, not the Sukhois and Migs because of "muh familiar systems".
 
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Delta Squad said:
Su-30MKI is superb because of the extensive third party customisation which is done along decades of experience and tactics developed for it.

When it comes to Su-57, IAF already pulled out of FGFA citing the aircraft not meeting their requirements. It's stealth, better than Su-30 but similar to or a little less than those other high end 4.5 gen aircrafts like Typhoon or Rafale, thanks to some design features.

Avionics again u need to put your own.

Tactics u need to develop from scratch. Su-30 tactics won't work with Su-57.

So, if u buy Su-57, what are u exactly buying? A heavy fighter aircraft sure, but does it meet your stealth requirements? No. Does it have cutting edge avionics? No, u will customise it. Does u have tactics already in place? No. Just because we operated a system doesn't mean the successor to that system we need to operate. Su-57 has been designed based on Soviet Philosophy, prioritising Maneuverability over Stealth. IAF philosophy is different.

Heck I will argue purchasing more Su-30 MkI and upgrading to Super Sukhoi standard will be more logical decision than Su-57.

EDIT: Also, during MMRCA it was Rafale and Typhoon which cleared the technical phase, not the Sukhois and Migs because of "muh familiar systems".
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Entire SU-57 needed bro runs on the belief that Russians will gives planes at affordable price with strict deadlines.

History reminds that Russians will rip us out by asking extra money and now they are in slugfest in Ukraine, high chances that the delivery will be delayed.

Basically, 3 years on contract negotiations+3 years of production + 1-2 years of delay (Typical russians). By the time we got the plane the AMCA will be flying.

Also FGFA program is basically Sukhoi asking our money to build the plane but they will not give equal access to the platform.

Also Russian engines have poor life, compared to US Engines. A big reason we are going with GE for AMCA, MWF, LCA and even the new engine the partner will be either French or UK. (Mostly French, since UK is shit in terms of partnership).

IAF indirectly put emphasis on performance along with better engine Life, which only Western manufacturers can provide.

You need AMCA, GOI should spend money to fast track lot of development of the subsystems.
 
ArjunMK1A said:
Entire SU-57 needed bro runs on the belief that Russians will gives planes at affordable price with strict deadlines.

History reminds that Russians will rip us out by asking extra money and now they are in slugfest in Ukraine, high chances that the delivery will be delayed.

Basically, 3 years on contract negotiations+3 years of production + 1-2 years of delay (Typical russians). By the time we got the plane the AMCA will be flying.

Also FGFA program is basically Sukhoi asking our money to build the plane but they will not give equal access to the platform.

Also Russian engines have poor life, compared to US Engines. A big reason we are going with GE for AMCA, MWF, LCA and even the new engine the partner will be either French or UK. (Mostly French, since UK is shit in terms of partnership).

IAF indirectly put emphasis on performance along with better engine Life, which only Western manufacturers can provide.

You need AMCA, GOI should spend money to fast track lot of development of the subsystems.
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The most ideal and fast solution of heavy category fighter would be AMCA Mk2 if it is developed like Tejas Mk2 (bigger fighter with more range and payload) and not just Mk1A style internal changes keeping airframe same. That will be like an F22+ jet and development time will be less than designing a new aircraft all together. But that's Airforce and DRDO and MoD call on how they want the program to proceed.
 
ArjunMK1A said:
Entire SU-57 needed bro runs on the belief that Russians will gives planes at affordable price with strict deadlines.

History reminds that Russians will rip us out by asking extra money and now they are in slugfest in Ukraine, high chances that the delivery will be delayed.

Basically, 3 years on contract negotiations+3 years of production + 1-2 years of delay (Typical russians). By the time we got the plane the AMCA will be flying.

Also FGFA program is basically Sukhoi asking our money to build the plane but they will not give equal access to the platform.

Also Russian engines have poor life, compared to US Engines. A big reason we are going with GE for AMCA, MWF, LCA and even the new engine the partner will be either French or UK. (Mostly French, since UK is shit in terms of partnership).

IAF indirectly put emphasis on performance along with better engine Life, which only Western manufacturers can provide.

You need AMCA, GOI should spend money to fast track lot of development of the subsystems.
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Isn’t Putin offered manufacturing of Su 57 in India Using HAL Nashik Su 30 production line?
 
silentassassin265 said:
Directly increasing budget won't help unless we revamp the entire defence procurement process itself.
Porkies have budget of 7 billion but still maintains all the equipmentss
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Just scale of orders required to spend that much money will help

5% of gdp is like $210b

Question is where does that money come from, and what would it be spent on
 
silentassassin265 said:
Directly increasing budget won't help unless we revamp the entire defence procurement process itself.
Porkies have budget of 7 billion but still maintains all the equipmentss
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Op Sindoor me dekh liya kitna "maintained" hai unka maal.

Regardless agree with your point that we need to revamp the ((( process ))) and have clear goals to as what we want to acquire rather than being stuck in the labyrinth of ((( process ))) and budget chindi giri
 
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