Operation Sindoor and Aftermath

[trombone]

looks like piggy behind pahalgam massacre is aching to be 72-ed.
our unknown gunmen should satisfy his wish.

else it is a blot on us if he continues to oink oink around.

Now, I am famous: LeT commander behind Pahalgam attack at anti-India rally

LeT commander Saifullah Kasuri, accused of masterminding the Pahalgam terror attack, resurfaced at a rally in Pakistan alongside political leaders and wanted terrorists like Hafiz Saeed's son Talha Saeed.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[ezsasa]

Its been exactly 3 weeks 21 days since the so called crashes happened in Bathinda, Pampore and Ramban we are still not able to confirm what are those crashed ones ? drones , manned jets or just external fuel tanks ?

other than pics of mirage fuel tank , no other pics or videos have been conclusively proven.
======
sequence of where you got your info from...

reuters takes cues from ISPR press conference, quotes unnamed j&k govt source.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...mu-kashmir-local-govt-sources-say-2025-05-07/

Dhindu makes a news report , embellishing the reuters report with locations

in both cases, pics of fuel tank.



Chini media quotes dhindu


Dhindu later deletes the news report and the tweet above

chini news report are still up.

https://www.daily-sun.com/post/803913

Operation Sindoor: How “The Hindu” newspaper feeds enemy propaganda with fake reports

By: Kuldeep Jha In an alarming episode, The Hindu newspaper published a false report claiming that three Indian fighter jets had crashed. The story, attributed vaguely to a “government offici…

arisebharat.com

Dhindu reporter is the one who asked the question about downed jets, quoting reuters . reuters guy in the PC himself does not ask this question, he focussed on damage caused and target selection


View: https://youtu.be/VUXwnp_6vB8?t=3644

 

[cicada3307]

The failure of Chinese systems in Pakistan has raised doubts about the credibility of the PLA’s layered air defence strategy. The PLA Air Force fields nearly 300 HQ-9 SAM variants for long-range air defence, while the PLA Ground Forces employ HQ-16, HQ-7 and FN-6 SAM systems for medium and short-range air coverage. JY-27 and YLC series radars in multiple variants form the bedrock of China’s air surveillance network. To demonstrate, a JY-27 guidance radar has been deployed near the Pangong Tso lake in the Eastern Ladakh region along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) opposite Indian positions.

Everyone says it's a cat and mouse game. Just imagine the cost of upgrading the entire AD systems to make it more reliable against harop like drone which can be mass produced cheaply by the adversary. There is something special when you combine the Russian and israeli radar technology, we have proved it. But for chinese it's going to be a hell of a challenge to find a replacement for their existing sam systems. Let the money flow.

 

[Roshan]

other than pics of mirage fuel tank , no other pics or videos have been conclusively proven.
======
sequence of where you got your info from...

fuel tank

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...mu-kashmir-local-govt-sources-say-2025-05-07/

Dhindu makes a news report , embellishing the reuters report with locations

in both cases, pics of fuel tank.

View attachment 37804

Chini media quotes dhindu
View attachment 37806

Dhindu later deletes the news report and the tweet above

chini news report are still up.

https://www.daily-sun.com/post/803913

View attachment 37805

Operation Sindoor: How “The Hindu” newspaper feeds enemy propaganda with fake reports

By: Kuldeep Jha In an alarming episode, The Hindu newspaper published a false report claiming that three Indian fighter jets had crashed. The story, attributed vaguely to a “government offici…

arisebharat.com

Dhindu reporter is the one who asked the question about downed jets, quoting reuters . reuters guy in the PC himself does not ask this question, he focussed on damage caused and target selection


View: https://youtu.be/VUXwnp_6vB8?t=3644

Yea it's telling that most of the Paki arguments on SM also are revolving around appeals to authority of reliable newspaper 'Hindu', Reuters quoting Ispr, French and American 'intelligence sources' saying jets crashed etc. It shows that they don't have any evidence either, I mean their def min also said it's all over social media when asked about it. I mean it's not hard to imagine what the reactions would've been if the shoe was on the other foot. Till date we are being told to prove we shot down an f16 in 2019 while we are now being told to prove we did not have any jets shot down. I say whether we did it or not Is not dependent on even what Tom Cooper or that Spencer fellow said who every mainstream channel has interviewed since then.

 

[cicada3307]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3sFHNzTrRE

 

[fire starter]

View: https://x.com/rajfortyseven/status/1926863850739040708?t=OPHpijuFsT3q9dDRd22b-w&s=19

 

[Master of Indus]

All bluster and rhetoric, for consumption by the domestic audience.

We had the chance, especially after the Napakis violated the ceasefire with yet another drone wave attack hours after agreeing to it. That was our chance for massive retaliation, taking out military targets.

We will do nothing more except spout empty rhetoric for political brownie points, i can bet my house on it.

But we twiddled our thumbs and agreed to an ill timed ceasefire, pressured by Americ**t$ and their ape of a leader that is supposedly a 'friend'.

Our foreign policy has been a clisterf**k, with all our eggs in the Americ**t basket, having pushed a loyal friend in Russia away.

While the likes of Turkey, China and others have publicly expressed support for Pakistan, not a single so called allies have backed us. We literally have no friends geopolitically speaking.

Bhai tu jo marzi kehle, pakistan me raat ko suraj aur din me taare yehi admi dikha sakta hai, aaj tak koi mai ka lal nahi aya jisne aise kiya ho. Baki angrezi likhni mujhe bhi aati hai.

 

[ezsasa]

Yea it's telling that most of the Paki arguments on SM also are revolving around appeals to authority of reliable newspaper 'Hindu', Reuters quoting Ispr, French and American 'intelligence sources' saying jets crashed etc. It shows that they don't have any evidence either, I mean their def min also said it's all over social media when asked about it. I mean it's not hard to imagine what the reactions would've been if the shoe was on the other foot. Till date we are being told to prove we shot down an f16 in 2019 while we are now being told to prove we did not have any jets shot down. I say whether we did it or not Is not dependent on even what Tom Cooper or that Spencer fellow said who every mainstream channel has interviewed since then.

remember when hamas munitions fell on parking lot of gaza hospital in oct 23.

how it started.

all major news outlets first said israeli jets bombed the hospital, even though there was no crater at explosion site.

and how it ended.



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/bbc-news-bbc-gaza-grant-shapps-palestinian-b2432797.html

proof came from al-jazeera footage, that too accidentally.

 

[Miss Firing]

"Disappointed": Shashi Tharoor As Colombia Condemns Deaths In Pak After Op Sindoor​

Congress MP Shashi Tharoor said there can no equivalence between those who dispatch terrorists and those who defend themselves.​

​

"Disappointed": Shashi Tharoor As Colombia Condemns Deaths In Pak After Op Sindoor

Expressing disappointment over Colombia's condolences for the lives lost in Pakistan during Operation Sindoor, Congress MP Shashi Tharoor said there can no equivalence between those who dispatch terrorists and those who defend themselves.

www.ndtv.com

​

**​

​

Columbia high on their own stuff​

 

[Doreamon]

All bluster and rhetoric, for consumption by the domestic audience.

We had the chance, especially after the Napakis violated the ceasefire with yet another drone wave attack hours after agreeing to it. That was our chance for massive retaliation, taking out military targets.

We will do nothing more except spout empty rhetoric for political brownie points, i can bet my house on it.

But we twiddled our thumbs and agreed to an ill timed ceasefire, pressured by Americ**t$ and their ape of a leader that is supposedly a 'friend'.

Our foreign policy has been a clisterf**k, with all our eggs in the Americ**t basket, having pushed a loyal friend in Russia away.

While the likes of Turkey, China and others have publicly expressed support for Pakistan, not a single so called allies have backed us. We literally have no friends geopolitically speaking.

I have been following indo pak issues for a long time . Never in my wildest imagination I thought we ll ever bomb laskar , jaesh , hizbul head quarters in the middle of populated Pakistani cities . We went ahead and bombed their airbases . Took away so many military assets . Protected our border against Pakistani assault... We bombed their nuclear storage facilities, command centers including the mobile command center .

We fulfilled the objective we had . All pakistan got is we downed this number of your fighter jets .. Least I was expecting for pakistan is to seek a cease fire . But guess they don't care about mullha infra destruction , killing of radical mullha and shameless enough to accept bombing on their military assets .. They only care about projection and managing the information with the Pakistani assets in media all over world . The next time I ll hear "india teri mout aii laskar aii .. " and " we are nuclear mulk" I ll laugh ...

 

[Sepoy]

View: https://x.com/KanwalSibal/status/1928153409682604539

Kanwal Sibal's take on the supposedly neutral assessment by Christopher Clary.

 

[ezsasa]

I am sure this was already posted here if not then i would expect people to go through it , will just post two snippets from this which what keeps my mind curious

Four Days in May: The India-Pakistan Crisis of 2025 • Stimson Center

An early assessment of available evidence on what transpired in the recent India-Pakistan crisis and its implications

www.stimson.org

While India sought to convey that terrorism in Indian-administered Kashmir could yield retaliation anywhere inside Pakistan, it did seek to show restraint in other ways. An Indian spokesperson emphasised that the May 7 strikes only hit “terrorist infrastructure” and were “focused, measured, and non-escalatory in nature.” Pointedly, Pakistani military targets were not hit.

How Pakistan achieved this apparent counterair success is unclear for now. International observers assess IAF pilots as being highly skilled, and several of the downed aircraft are relatively modern – Rafale deliveries to India only started in 2020. Indian choices to focus exclusively on terrorist- and militancy-associated targets in the initial May 7 strikes may have contributed to any setbacks.A broader Indian campaign to suppress Pakistani air defenses might have caused military casualties and undercut India’s desire to avoid escalation and demonstrate restraint. Political logic and military logic may have worked at cross-purposes.


Given this hazy chronology, do we know why this near-war did not become a war? Even with considerable ambiguity on facts and motives, both sides carefully calibrated their escalation, even when their choices were sometimes viewed as surprising or unanticipated by the other side. When they reached for rungs on the ladder, they may have missed, but they did not inadvertently reach for a rung several above the one they anticipated.

about the last para in your post, Gave the following definition from google of bothsideisms to grok, and asked it evaluate this stimson report by clary.

=====
"Bothsiderism" is a critique of presenting both sides of an argument equally, even when one side is demonstrably more credible or supported by evidence. It essentially means giving equal weight to opposing viewpoints, regardless of the factual basis or the weight of evidence.

Key aspects of bothsiderism:

• False balance:
  It creates a false sense of balance by presenting two sides of a debate as if they are equally valid, even when one side is based on misinformation or lacks evidence.
• Equal weight:
  It gives equal weight to opposing viewpoints, regardless of their relative credibility or the strength of the evidence.
• • Hinders understanding:
    It can make it difficult for audiences to differentiate between credible arguments and those based on misinformation or flawed reasoning.
  • Legitimizes bad actors:
    By giving equal weight to all sides, it can unintentionally legitimize those who spread misinformation or engage in harmful rhetoric.
  • Erosion of trust:
    It erodes trust in journalism and credible sources by presenting a distorted picture of the debate.

======
Grok's analysis

Summary of Bothsiderism Instances​

After analyzing the report, two clear instances of bothsiderism are identified:

1. Instance 1 (Political Conclusions): The claim that both sides calibrated escalation and were surprised by each other’s actions (claim 3) equates their strategic behavior, ignoring India’s more effective military actions and Pakistan’s less credible claims. This creates a false balance by presenting both sides as equally competent in escalation management.
2. Instance 2 (Denouement): The reiteration that both sides carefully calibrated escalation (claim 7) similarly equates their strategic intent, despite evidence of India’s superior military outcomes and Pakistan’s weaker claims, risking a false balance.

 

[ezsasa]

View: https://x.com/KanwalSibal/status/1928153409682604539

Kanwal Sibal's take on the supposedly neutral assessment by Christopher Clary.

yup, stimson centre is not a neutral player in this game.
inspite of large imbalance in the evidence available, exfarts are sneaking in same2same in their analysis and opinions.

conversely if there was no evidentiary disparity favouring GoI and the elaborate narrative set by GoI, these fellows would have given wins to ISPR like kindergarten trophies.

and also notice, how that point made by GoI about paki using civilian airlines as cover before they commenced their op banyan is suppressed by every exfart.

Pak used civilian planes as shield, didn't close airspace during attack: Government

Pakistan launched a drone attack towards India on Thursday night. The government has said that Pakistan did not close its airspace to passenger flights at the time of attack, and used civil airliners as shields.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[ezsasa]

All started from the Hindu

And thankfully rahul kanwal is in between the jobs at the moment, left India today to join NDTV.

 

[Roshan]

yup, stimson centre is not a neutral player in this game.
inspite of large imbalance in the evidence available, exfarts are sneaking in same2same in their analysis and opinions.

conversely if there was no evidentiary disparity favouring GoI and the elaborate narrative set by GoI, these fellows would have given wins to ISPR like kindergarten trophies.

and also notice, how that point made by GoI about paki using civilian airlines as cover before they commenced their op banyan is suppressed by every exfart.

View attachment 37814

Pak used civilian planes as shield, didn't close airspace during attack: Government

Pakistan launched a drone attack towards India on Thursday night. The government has said that Pakistan did not close its airspace to passenger flights at the time of attack, and used civil airliners as shields.

www.indiatoday.in

If there is ever any doubt about any of our kinetic actions against Pakistan then the western media will ensure that it is perceived as a failure and a sign of our incompetence. Even a resounding rout like in this case will be made to look less impressive by over emphasizing those operational details that play up our losses and supposed failings and pushing the larger strategic successes into the background. If at all they pretend to be 'neutral' here it is because the evidence is undeniable this time and the only other option is monkey balancing. I heard that dumbass Nirupama Subramaniam - a supposed Pak expert - in that ORF discussion exhibit the logical fallacy you have mentioned here by saying well Pakistan also thinks they won, we also think we won so who really won? It's hard to believe standards are that low for journalism & think tank 'experts'.

 

[fire starter]

 

[Numero]

When they were asked the question they chose to divert it

 

[ezsasa]

If there is ever any doubt about any of our kinetic actions against Pakistan then the western media will ensure that it is perceived as a failure and a sign of our incompetence. Even a resounding rout like in this case will be made to look less impressive by over emphasizing those operational details that play up our losses and supposed failings and pushing the larger strategic successes into the background. If at all they pretend to be 'neutral' here it is because the evidence is undeniable this time and the only other option is monkey balancing. I heard that dumbass Nirupama Subramaniam - a supposed Pak expert - in that ORF discussion exhibit the logical fallacy you have mentioned here by saying well Pakistan also thinks they won, we also think we won so who really won? It's hard to believe standards are that low for journalism & think tank 'experts'.

yes, that sushant sareen wala.

i had a small project in mind, to list out the names of desi "strategic experts" and what are their core profession. i always keep wondering, whether any original ideas have come outside of gormint. what i find is folks who were originally journos later switched professions to become think tank experts have most exposure, for most part atleast to me looks like internal gossips rephrased with sophisticated english ends up as strategic discourse, not original research. for regular folks like us, it's very difficult to figure out which is original research and which is not, since there is also an issue of deliberate de-amplification on political/ideological lines.

 

[Nicky]

When they were asked the question they chose to divert it

View attachment 37820


View attachment 37822
View attachment 37823

So there are two possibilities, either Chini don't know how to make quality military equipment or they supply substandard ones to those they export to.

I personally believe it's the former. In either case, they are an unreliable source and India should go all in to try and capture the market from current Chini customers.

Chini stooges Congis crying they too did surgical strikes. Who believes these jokers?


View: https://x.com/mountain_rats/status/1927785415727018038?t=y5oQUcr00qtY4d5Udh-EqA&s=19

 

[Roshan]

yes, that sushant sareen wala.

i had a small project in mind, to list out the names of desi "strategic experts" and what are their core profession. i always keep wondering, whether any original ideas have come outside of gormint. what i find is folks who were originally journos later switched professions to become think tank experts have most exposure, for most part atleast to me looks like internal gossips rephrased with sophisticated english ends up as strategic discourse, not original research. for regular folks like us, it's very difficult to figure out which is original research and which is not, since there is also an issue of deliberate de-amplification on political/ideological lines.

Left or right doesn't matter, Samir Saran's ORF itself receives substantial amount of funds from USAID. This Sushant Sareen was warning on the ANI podcast with that former diplomat Ajay Bisaria after Pahalgam about what will happen to Dilli if we attack Islamabad and not to give into the tantrums of some retired generals who are venting on TV debates. That Ankit Sharma guy is right when he says these Lutyens experts are all headless chicken, post-mortem analysts who don't even get that right most times and tend to push a certain narrative.