Operation Sindoor and Aftermath (98 Viewers)

chnvipgz said:
All his lies can be busted if india releases that most of our strike package was just drones and decoys to fool their ad and jets.
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And the ADHD Tik Tok addicted western crowd will be tuned in the entire time.

No, the damage will be done and then clarifications will just be damage control.

India needs to figure out it's narrative game while not at war. Honestly, the Indian people know the truth of the conflict and have their head in the right place so when the war begins, I don't value this narrative game as much but these do shape the battlespace a little bit.

But when there's no war going on, are you telling me our think tanks, media houses, information ministry and intelligence is still task saturated?
What's the point of sitting around then?

Get a control of the narrative in the meanwhile, at least.
 
snakeeyes07 said:
There can be 2 possibilities, one zdk-03 was seen in satellite images during operations, maybe their retirement was a ruse to obfuscate capabilities until needed. Or the other possibility which I think is more likely is that they were able to integrate Chinese radars like JY-27 and HQ-9 search and fire control radar into a fused air picture and used Chinese data link from ground station (C4 centers) to provide updates to PL-15 either directly or via UAV relay. Maybe that's why IAF went after C4 infrastructure at Nur Khan and Murid airbases. Also, what supports this possibility is that PAF wasn't effective later on as IAF conducted SEAD thus degrading their air picture even though their AEW&Cs would still be on station.

Re guiding an Active Radar seeker BVR missile, they need mid course guidance to be effective at long ranges until they go pitbull. Even PL15 ku band AESA seeker, has a seeker cone of around 6 degree and can only see targets in around 6-8 km deviation from last known target update when they go active at about 15-20 km from target. I think getting a hit at 150km+ with just initial INS is pretty much impossible for fighter targets.
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You are spewing uttern nonesense. AWACS can't guide missiles. AWACS are eyes spotters but not targetters. AWACS radars have less resolution than those needed by missiles to hit a target. What it means is AWACS aren't accurate enough for target.
They can guide the missile in direction of target but thats it. Homing has to be done by Missile or the FA.
 

View: https://youtu.be/Arb-PKN4ErE?si=o-Wa3s5ovqdGCOVx

Extremely animated & explosive podcast hosted by Shoma Chaudhury featuring ex Ambassador TCA Raghavan & Bharat Karnad.

What struck me most about this podcast was not the diametrically opposite positions both the guests took , which was mostly on expected lines but the way the hollowness of Raghavan's & by extension the foreign establishment's outdated position comes across quite clearly pitched as it is against Karnad's brutally honest if ambitious pragmatism.

To all the Millenials & Gen Z guys here the former's position is what guided not only our foreign policy but also our world view for the most part of our ~ 80 years journey including during ABV's tenure & the initial part of present incumbent's term . Some out here would argue it still does.

More to the point it was the accepted norm whereas Karnad's position was always greeted by sneers , charges of adventurism & hawkishness besides being the target of ridicule in the past . I'm glad to report that what he suggests now or even suggested earlier ( in that manner he's been remarkably consistent ) is no longer viewed as outlandish or impossible at least by this generation .

Raghavan's frustration was evident given the many contradictions in his position was exposed ( he's actually admitted there's little we can do about Paxtan which is another way of saying let's move on after 26/11 & focus on the economy . At another point he says the abrogation of the IWT is good coz it sends a message even if we can't do much on the ground to change the situation given our geographical disadvantages & so on ) & which used to be unquestioned earlier including in this podcast where he got away lightly .

Tells one a great deal about how & why the Congress completely lost the plot in the 10 years they were in power on a lot of issues especially Paxtan .

Must watch episode IMO !
 
chnvipgz said:
All his lies can be busted if india releases that most of our strike package was just drones and decoys to fool their ad and jets.
Click to expand...
They are going to do what it takes to keep porki army in survival mode. The real security for us is to have devastating firepower. And be at the forefront of critical Al technology being commercialized. Getting deeper into JVs with Russia, Israel, Japan, France is the way to go. Slacking on advanced technology development is a recipe for disaster. We need to do something about China arming Pakistan. We can only do that if we have the economy to develop and commercialize tech. There is no option for us but to become a superpower in technology. No option at all.
 
Tumba said:
Indian Air Force was a fool observing ROE ans not taking out enemy fighters visible on radar and directly going for terror camp hits.

Even if J35 comes porks cant change thr geography, IAF should directly start cleaning up PAF bases before attacking terror camps next time.

40 J35 cant match 400 Brahmos/Pralay/Nirbhay coming at them same is true for anything porks have … every single target is with in range of our most lethal cruise missile.

Actual range of Brahmos from day 1 was not 280 kms it was always 800 coming from P-800 …

IAF needs to get more Rafales
Add more air defence(Anti drone to Anti sat)
Increase production of Brahmos, Pralay and Hypersonic quasi ballistic missiles
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This air defence could nt do anything because of brahmos is a big cope of Pakistani internet crowd . Only 15 were used and that includes the one on the terrorist camp . Many of the hits are from scalp , hammer , popeya , rampage , saaw . Even there was a news of khagantak being used . Loitering Munitions like harop , Nagastra , sky striker , warmate also did lots of damages .
 
KrishRus said:
And people were suggesting that he is a double agent meant to offer stupid hopiums to pakis. No agent of ours would try this hard to actually give good advise on one of their fundamental weaknesses.
Click to expand...
If you think he's not a double agent you should have been around in the 2000s & earlier when practically every speaker worth his salt was mouthing similar platitudes while our people were being blown up & mowed down not just in Paxtani sponsored terrorists acting in Punjab & Kashmir but all India.

Result - bail buddhi Punjabi Musalman dominated establishment thought bania is on his knees , let's push more.

In fact the post above yours # 17208 brings out precisely the same mindset in a different form .

Today nobody indulges in such rhetoric here for while there are no takers for it , chances are they'd be abused for it like our serving FS Vikram Mesri discovered for little fault of his & Sawhney is all the time .

This double agent is serving what used to be regularly served earlier to the Paxtanis in dollops by do gooders out here who're fortunately in short supply these days and therefore has more chances of being heard especially since a "fascist Hindutva government headed by the butcher of Gujarat" is giving them good.

In simple terms it's also known as the good cop bad cop routine something previous practitioners of the craft didn't bother to include in their tool kit. We need the entire arsenal at our disposal to combat the vermin that is Paxtan. Half measures like what we previously undertook will not work.
 
Doreamon said:
This air defence could nt do anything because of brahmos is a big cope of Pakistani internet crowd . Only 15 were used and that includes the one on the terrorist camp . Many of the hits are from scalp , hammer , popeya , rampage , saaw . Even there was a news of khagantak being used . Loitering Munitions like harop , Nagastra , sky striker , warmate also did lots of damages .
Click to expand...

Only 4 Brahmos were used as per some info and may b a dozen Scalp rest were standard SOW including SAAW it seems and suicide drones…

India kept on restraining to provide pakis an off ramp it seems.

Indian objectives were always limited to taking out terror camps, everything else was bonus.

when we intercepted comm inside paki camp regarding 48 hour campaign to hit India, it seems IAF gave a restrained demo of capabilities which resulted in paki field marshal begging his 3 abbas(US, China and Gulf) to ask India to stop halala… once US ans China called it seems our answer was we are only replying to aggression if pakis want to stop they can call our DGMO and thats what they did…
 
Azaad said:

View: https://youtu.be/Arb-PKN4ErE?si=o-Wa3s5ovqdGCOVx

Extremely animated & explosive podcast hosted by Shoma Chaudhury featuring ex Ambassador TCA Raghavan & Bharat Karnad.

What struck me most about this podcast was not the diametrically opposite positions both the guests took , which was mostly on expected lines but the way the hollowness of Raghavan's & by extension the foreign establishment's outdated position comes across quite clearly pitched as it is against Karnad's brutally honest if ambitious pragmatism.

To all the Millenials & Gen Z guys here the former's position is what guided not only our foreign policy but also our world view for the most part of our ~ 80 years journey including during ABV's tenure & the initial part of present incumbent's term . Some out here would argue it still does.

More to the point it was the accepted norm whereas Karnad's position was always greeted by sneers , charges of adventurism & hawkishness besides being the target of ridicule in the past . I'm glad to report that what he suggests now or even suggested earlier ( in that manner he's been remarkably consistent ) is no longer viewed as outlandish or impossible at least by this generation .

Raghavan's frustration was evident given the many contradictions in his position was exposed ( he's actually admitted there's little we can do about Paxtan which is another way of saying let's move on after 26/11 & focus on the economy . At another point he says the abrogation of the IWT is good coz it sends a message even if we can't do much on the ground to change the situation given our geographical disadvantages & so on ) & which used to be unquestioned earlier including in this podcast where he got away lightly .

Tells one a great deal about how & why the Congress completely lost the plot in the 10 years they were in power on a lot of issues especially Paxtan .

Must watch episode IMO !
Click to expand...

I have been advocating for salami slicing for a long time. That is the same thing Karnad is saying. There is nothing like taking territory which affects the jaahilyat of Pakistan. If Haji Pir is a good area to salami slice into, we should have done that. Do Chinese think about all this when taking territory from India - that is India will nuke China etc ? They just do it because they know these are not areas that India will sacrifice its population centers for. Same applies to Pakistan. Will Pakistan jeopardize Islamabad and Karachi for some peripheral area in Haji Pir? Of course not. Not having salami slicing as a political response has been a big failure for us.
 
It's a organizational problem in IFS. The first IFS came from the direct recommendation of Nehru. They were mostly communist, globalist, sympathetic to pakis, chinis etc. They were also incompetent.

But I feel it's changing. I mean one of our ambassadors called pakis sub humans in a interview during Operation Sindoor. Also, I feel the current lot being inducted into the IFS might be better and more aggressive than the earlier ones. But still they have to overcome the institutional memory of that organization.

It ain't gonna be easy but I feel, there will be a increasing convergence of military foreign policy alignment perhaps for the first time in India's history. Usually both of the organizations are diametrically opposite in their views. We are definitely heading towards a future where I predict military, IFS, internal security, intelligence and the political establishment will be on the same page.

That will be extremely good for India. Even if it's gonna be hard but i feel its gonna happen. I want modi to continue till 2034 atleast.
 
ezsasa said:
it so happened this time, since journos went overboard with fog of war on that night, foreign naysayers are using behaviour of journos to invalidate all info coming from India.
Click to expand...

CLAWS Discussions | Negotiating a Transactional Relationship: India and the US​


aparna pandey was on expected lines with the narrative her tribe wants to amplify, essentially blaming the victim i.e India and Indians for over reacting.

“The concern came when the views and the narrative and noise changed from, you know, sort of as long as India was targeting terror infrastructure, there was a tacit American consent… when it changed from attacking terror attacks to a war or, you know, attacking Pakistani military facilities or on the Indian media when it went to, you know, things like we’re going to destroy Pakistan, that is when India lost some part of the support.”
Click to expand...

Lt. gen Dushyanth Singh(r) made an impassioned plea about terrorism, but i suppose it fell on deaf ears since murican exfarts think and say as per instructions from their respective organisations . we'll see.

  • Domestic Perceptions and Operation Zindur: Lt. Gen. Singh emphasized that India’s public sentiment is shaped by global developments occurring alongside Operation Zindur, where India has only paused operations, not agreed to a ceasefire. He noted that these events, perceived as unfavorable, create a sense that India is politically disadvantaged, particularly due to Pakistan’s role in the UN Security Council’s counterterrorism committee.
  • Frustration with Global Response to Terrorism: He expressed dismay over the lack of international resistance to Pakistan’s involvement in terrorism, despite India providing evidence of Pakistan’s role in groups like the TRF for over 30 years. He argued that assigning Pakistan to monitor terrorism undermines India’s efforts and fuels domestic frustration.
  • Terrorism as a Global Threat: Drawing from personal experience as a colonel intercepting terrorist communications, he cited the 9/11 and 26/11 attacks to underscore that terrorism has no allies and requires a unified global response. He warned that supporting terrorism risks severe consequences, as it “bites back,” referencing the US experience.
  • India-US Cooperation Amid Bureaucratic Challenges: He acknowledged ongoing India-US cooperation in areas like Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul (MRO) and logistics agreements, despite delays due to bureaucratic regulations in both countries. He noted that no agreements have collapsed, indicating resilience in the partnership.
  • Concerns About the Quad and Public Opinion: He raised concerns about the future of the Quad amidst India’s perceived isolation on terrorism issues and stressed the importance of addressing public opinion in India’s democracy, where “ruffled feathers” need smoothing to sustain bilateral progress.
Click to expand...

needless to say, muricans did not give an inch, tried to turn everything as India is not doing enough.


View: https://youtu.be/VaD2fnfkF9k
 
Azaad said:

View: https://youtu.be/Arb-PKN4ErE?si=o-Wa3s5ovqdGCOVx

Extremely animated & explosive podcast hosted by Shoma Chaudhury featuring ex Ambassador TCA Raghavan & Bharat Karnad.

What struck me most about this podcast was not the diametrically opposite positions both the guests took , which was mostly on expected lines but the way the hollowness of Raghavan's & by extension the foreign establishment's outdated position comes across quite clearly pitched as it is against Karnad's brutally honest if ambitious pragmatism.

To all the Millenials & Gen Z guys here the former's position is what guided not only our foreign policy but also our world view for the most part of our ~ 80 years journey including during ABV's tenure & the initial part of present incumbent's term . Some out here would argue it still does.

More to the point it was the accepted norm whereas Karnad's position was always greeted by sneers , charges of adventurism & hawkishness besides being the target of ridicule in the past . I'm glad to report that what he suggests now or even suggested earlier ( in that manner he's been remarkably consistent ) is no longer viewed as outlandish or impossible at least by this generation .

Raghavan's frustration was evident given the many contradictions in his position was exposed ( he's actually admitted there's little we can do about Paxtan which is another way of saying let's move on after 26/11 & focus on the economy . At another point he says the abrogation of the IWT is good coz it sends a message even if we can't do much on the ground to change the situation given our geographical disadvantages & so on ) & which used to be unquestioned earlier including in this podcast where he got away lightly .

Tells one a great deal about how & why the Congress completely lost the plot in the 10 years they were in power on a lot of issues especially Paxtan .

Must watch episode IMO !
Click to expand...


as more and more discussions happen, chances of core message getting diluted increases, looks like we need to have a point by point base line list of GoI's official messaging that came during and after op sindoor.
 
ezsasa said:

CLAWS Discussions | Negotiating a Transactional Relationship: India and the US​


aparna pandey was on expected lines with the narrative her tribe wants to amplify, essentially blaming the victim i.e India and Indians for over reacting.



Lt. gen Dushyanth Singh(r) made an impassioned plea about terrorism, but i suppose it fell on deaf ears since murican exfarts think and say as per instructions from their respective organisations . we'll see.



needless to say, muricans did not give an inch, tried to turn everything as India is not doing enough.


View: https://youtu.be/VaD2fnfkF9k
Click to expand...


and a counter argument to muricans can be, if they think India lost the narrative war in OP sindoor, where anti-India narrative was amplified by friends of china and pakistan in western media, then U.S will lose the narrative war with china too.

as things stand today, china's soft power is strongly implanted in U.S itself thru tiktok, think tanks and MSM lobbies by utilising democratic structures of the west, but murica has no soft power influence within china. ergo, murican will lose the narrative with china in a military conflict, under the current fundamentals.
 
If there's one eminent weapon system among many that punctured whole paxtan nd mogged PAF face to the dirt is brahmos.

There's no remedy to it.. no antidote.. nd no J35 or HQ-19 gonna save the day for PAF once IAF starts firing brahmos at their airbases.

Quwa guy which is the one of the few sanest of the paxtani defence nerds among loudmouth nd delusional paxtani masses discusses the threat of brahmos with rational.


View: https://youtu.be/r-PQQTXrZyU
 
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