Chit Chat

[Corvus Splendens]

If you look at it closely.
Their heli is about as indigenous as ours.
Somewhat better since it has been exported.

We have to take the L since even our our Import force aren't buying into it.

There can't be no rebuttal to this.

Turks are masters of selling crap. The Mongoose uses Honeywell engines and they can't just sell it to whoever they want. But they hyped up the TB-2 drones as if they were Jesus mk2. Turks always have a full portfolio thanks to steady access to NATO brains and means. On the other hand if you ask our babus to sell a product, the best they'll come up with is a ppt. Turks meanwhile are all over social media with videos, shorts, high quality footage, backed up by aggressive marketing and pricing.

How?
ATAK is more akin to Sukhoi 30 MKI program
whereas LCH is more akin to JAS 39 prog.

Only difference in the Mongoose is Turkish avionics and weapons integration. But they have to pay a heavy licensing fee to Leonardo, and the per unit cost balloons over a Mk1A Tejas at 55 mil a piece. LCH is faster, has a 2500 meters higher service ceiling while carrying a similar payload, has much more engine power, more than a ton higher MTOW, while being a lighter bird. Turks are out of their depth.

 

[Anants]

Avionics are home made ours aren't.
Same for most of the mounted weapons.

The LCH is indigenously designed with 45% made-in India components. What about TAI ATAK?

 

[Suryavanshi]

The LCH is indigenously designed with 45% made-in India components. What about TAI ATAK?

Same but even better probably.
Only the engine is bought from murica

 

[Anants]

Same but even better probably.
Only the engine is bought from murica

Is it presumption or based on some empirical evidence?

 

[shade2]

If you look at it closely.
Their heli is about as indigenous as ours.
Somewhat better since it has been exported.

We have to take the L since even our our Import force aren't buying into it.

There can't be no rebuttal to this.

Avionics are home made ours aren't.
Same for most of the mounted weapons.

LCH Prachand is a Made in India design and product for the specific requirements of high altitude deployments

Mehmet Cockroachoglu's ATAK meanwhile is a license-produced version of the A129 Mangusta, selected to replace the Bell Cobras they had, a basic ass light attack helicopter, perhaps the Mangusta won because the pasta-pizza vendors of it were ok with domestic screwdrivergiri by Mehmet's country.

This alone disproves AbOuT aS InDiGeNoUs aS OurS

The airframe is obviously made here, Engine is screwdrivered and i'm sure portions are manufactured here too.

Integration tests with various missiles are on going.

You yourself have mentioned (((Import))) Force so them not buying it is quite obvious

Spit out that blackpill, there are times to "take the L" do widhwa vilaap and all, this is not one of them

 

[Suryavanshi]

Is it presumption or based on some empirical evidence?

The salt against a counterpart of a Indian equipment is very reminiscent of a Paki forum.
No need for us to get our panties in a twist because we can't cope with our own circumstances.

T129 Atak - TUSAS

T129 Atak

web.archive.org

Turkey heli has been exported and that is a big achievement, everything else pales in comparison.

Let our own import force show interest in our system why no just acknowledged that there is something better out there?

 

[Ayan Barat]

The thing is not that how much indigenous content we both have or what system was copied to make that. The thing is that the curve Turkish defence industry follows is way way steeper than ours.

In 2009 the first ATAK flew with Italian assistance and by 2023 they'd moved on to ATAK 2. This goes same for multiple platforms.

But in our case some things just stop evolving or even if they do, the curve is so gradual that things start to become obsolete even before induction.

 

[srev2004]

umm you got it wrong. No one is against reservation for deserving ST and SC students, even genuine OBC students. Whats really disappoints someone - is somebody affluent grabbing seats of deserving one.
A poor woman children desperate to get school admission in a city where they moved to - but cant as system desnies them adhaar card. But some come for neighboring countries and get all done in jiffy and take leverage of all facilities.

See this is the problem. And there are always two sides to story. Not everyone from GC came from generational wealthy family - infact story is quite opposite. They were struggling before independence and are still struggling after Independence to make themselves. Whats needed is overhauling of reservation such that it reaches all tribal and sc's and lifts them out of poverty and explotation. And for that somebody whose multi generation has benefitted from reservation and made themselves good and independent should ideally give up reservation voluntary.

Stay on.. keep posting.. its always to good to hear various perspectives. I enjoy your Uttarakhand videos.

Reservation should be tied to income / wealth & assets and not tied to caste or lineage or race. I never understood why this wasn’t done in the first place.

 

[shade2]

The thing is not that how much indigenous content we both have or what system was copied to make that. The thing is that the curve Turkish defence industry follows is way way steeper than ours.

In 2009 the first ATAK flew with Italian assistance and by 2023 they'd moved on to ATAK 2. This goes same for multiple platforms.

But in our case some things just stop evolving or even if they do, the curve is so gradual that things start to become obsolete even before induction.

That is not what is being discussed here.
I think the whole forum would be in agreement that the Cockroach defense industry moves much faster than ours, same as the defence industry of our beloved Northern neighbor that is now rivaling the USN in tonnage

 

[Anants]

The salt against a counterpart of a Indian equipment is very reminiscent of a Paki forum.
No need for us to get our panties in a twist because we can't cope with our own circumstances.

View attachment 15204

T129 Atak - TUSAS

T129 Atak

web.archive.org

Turkey heli has been exported and that is a big achievement, everything else pales in comparison.

Let our own import force show interest in our system why no just acknowledged that there is something better out there?

JF 17 is also export success and so Sitara, hence must be better than LCA which has not been ordered sufficiently. Naade ke daayre se bahar aao aur akal kadao. I asked specifically about performance of avionics which you claimed is better than ours. Since ours is imported as you claim - what is the empirical evidence that Turkish avionics perform better than ours?

Turkish benefits from many NATO components being produced in their country. their defense industries are have tech collab with many European companies. Akin to we have with few Israeli companies. So their turn around time is definitely better because of availability of more variety of components.

But still I need to see why you think their avionics is better than our imported avionics in lch?

 

[Ayan Barat]

That is not what is being discussed here.

Isn't that the most important crux?

Both countries start with the same "X% indigenous content" thing and eventually one moves to a completely new iterations of it in a decade. While the other puts a ceremony with big banners saying Achieved the important milestone of 83% indigenous components and keeps patting it's back for weeks, some 20 years after that platform was developed.

But if someone really wanna do that ATAK main rotor diameter just 12m while LCH is 13m then go on, let's see how that helps in the long run.

 

[Anants]

Isn't that the most important crux?

Both countries start with the same "X% indigenous content" thing and eventually one moves to a completely new iterations of it in a decade. While the other puts a ceremony with big banners saying Achieved the important milestone of 83% indigenous components and keeps patting it's back for weeks, some 20 years after that platform was developed.

But if someone really wanna do that ATAK main rotor diameter just 12m while LCH is 13m then go on, let's see how that helps in the long run.

better lift hence better Altitude, hover capabilities - driven by better engine output?

 

[srev2004]

better lift hence better Altitude, hover capabilities - driven by better engine output?

Prachand can fly in siachen. The Turkish helicopter cannot

 

[Ayan Barat]

better lift hence better Altitude, hover capabilities - driven by better engine output?

PS: My most technical post on DFB

 

[shade2]

Isn't that the most important crux?

Both countries start with the same "X% indigenous content" thing and eventually one moves to a completely new iterations of it in a decade. While the other puts a ceremony with big banners saying Achieved the important milestone of 83% indigenous components and keeps patting it's back for weeks, some 20 years after that platform was developed.

But if someone really wanna do that ATAK main rotor diameter just 12m while LCH is 13m then go on, let's see how that helps in the long run.

Literally doesn't change that the Atak which that turkcel memer on Plebbit was kanging about is an Italian A129 Mangusta license-built by Turkroaches with some of their stuff added in, one can say it is as Turkish as the Su-30MKI is Indian

You can plug your "Turki defence industry more faster iterations better than us is more important than this" argument anywhere else, literally make a post by itself and everyone would be in agreement.

If some chinkoid would have compared their Chinky attack helicopters to LCH Prachand which they ofc have copied from somewhere I would give up and "take the L" like suryavanshi was saying

 

[Ayan Barat]

Literally doesn't change that the Atak which that turkcel memer on Plebbit was kanging about is an Italian A129 Mangusta license-built by Turkroaches with some of their stuff added in, one can say it is as Turkish as the Su-30MKI is Indian

You can plug your "Turki defence industry more faster iterations better than us is more important than this" argument anywhere else, literally make a post by itself and everyone would be in agreement

Missed my first post about this Pal eh
Sad...

Ummmn...that's just Turkish defence fanbois being Turkish defence fanbois; nothing unusual.

 

[Suryavanshi]

But still I need to see why you think their avionics is better than our imported avionics in lch?

Never said "Their avionics are better"

The LCH is indigenously designed with 45% made-in India components. What about TAI ATAK?

Same but even better probably.
Only the engine is bought from murica

"Even better probably" is about indigenous content hende why I quoted 95% indigenous content when asked for imperial evidence.

Saar I think you created a strawman statement of me praising their avionics.

Besides they use their own avionics while we use Israeli import


> indigenous content 95% vs 45%
> export
>battle tested
>used by their own forces
>own wepaons
>own avionics

prachand kanging needs to stop.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Prachand can fly in siachen. The Turkish helicopter cannot

Good sir most of the world isn't as high as Siachen, hence most of the world finds this factor redundant.

 

[srev2004]

Good sir most of the world isn't as high as Siachen, hence most of the world finds this factor redundant.

Then armed forces shouldn’t design our defense equipment, most of the world should. Can’t have it both ways

 

[shade2]

Good sir most of the world isn't as high as Siachen, hence most of the world finds this factor redundant.

Prachand was built for our own purposes, A129 Mangusta selected by Turks for their own purposes, exforts came later.
No need to bangle break over phoren platform xyz gigachad meme