AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[randombully]

Turkey is going with France for the FCAS program.


https://www.turkiyetoday.com/turkiye/turkiye-expresses-interest-in-future-combat-air-system-french-senate-report-114320/#:~:text=T%C3%BCrkiye's%20interest%20in%20SCAF%20comes,than%20continue%20Franco%2DBritish%20cooperation.


View: https://x.com/Defence_Turk/status/1886008962589352290?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1886008962589352290%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

India is collaborating with France for the 5th generation engine for AMCA and Safran has already established a plan to open a facility to design said engine.


https://theprint.in/defence/frances...ighter-amca-expands-india-operations/2312842/

Are we designing the new engine for Turkey's jets under FCAS?

From what I know, the engine for amca will be a 5th gen one, like f35.
Not a adaptive cycle one.
Now about fcas, even design is not finalised so can't say what engine it will feature.

Though high chance France would want Turkey to be a partner both for funding reason and production no. Reason, but "germany" may object.
Also can guarantee chinese 6th gen will enter service before fcas and even gcap will.

 

[Operatorr]

 

[Spitfire IX]

From what I know, the engine for amca will be a 5th gen one, like f35.
Not a adaptive cycle one.
Now about fcas, even design is not finalised so can't say what engine it will feature.

Though high chance France would want Turkey to be a partner both for funding reason and production no. Reason, but "germany" may object.
Also can guarantee chinese 6th gen will enter service before fcas and even gcap will.

I guess that no new partner can be added to FCAS without all existing partners agreeing.

What about joining GCAP - would any member object as strongly as one of the FCAS partners? Perhaps it is better to wait to see how FCAS and GCAP progress before trying to join either. At the moment GCAP looks like a more solid proposition than FCAS does. I can see France going its own way unless Germany and Spain agree to France controlling engine and airframe development and production of both.

 

[Operatorr]

From what I know, the engine for amca will be a 5th gen one, like f35.
Not a adaptive cycle one.
Now about fcas, even design is not finalised so can't say what engine it will feature.

Though high chance France would want Turkey to be a partner both for funding reason and production no. Reason, but "germany" may object.
Also can guarantee chinese 6th gen will enter service before fcas and even gcap will.

Why are they calling this a 6th-gen jet? Adaptive cycle engines are what truly set 6th-gen apart from 5th-gen, and during its first flight, it was clearly using a regular engine—you can tell from the smoke trail it left behind.

 

[randombully]

View attachment 23915
Why are they calling this a 6th-gen jet? Adaptive cycle engines are what truly set 6th-gen apart from 5th-gen, and during its first flight, it was clearly using a regular engine—you can tell from the smoke trail it left behind.

It's a 6th gen "airframe".
And I expect these(especially larger j36) to enter service around 2035.
By that time all the "future" 6th gen tech will developed by china( engine could be exception, don't know if they can develop them by 2035 but work on chinese adaptive cycle engine has begun , but again if they can still get enough thrust and power from current 3 engine set ups to fulfill future needs then good enough).

Engines are just a component, a powersource.
Why do you need adaptive cycle engine? It's not just adaptive cycle, these engines are highly efficient and powerful for their size, the adaptive cycle of the engine helps redistribute power at lower speeds to power electronics also to operate more efficiently at lower speeds, and then Change the cycle to prioritise thrust for higher speeds.
But what if you can get enough thrust and electrical power while fulfilling range and endurance from the current set up already?

 

[randombully]

I guess that no new partner can be added to FCAS without all existing partners agreeing.

What about joining GCAP - would any member object as strongly as one of the FCAS partners? Perhaps it is better to wait to see how FCAS and GCAP progress before trying to join either. At the moment GCAP looks like a more solid proposition than FCAS does. I can see France going its own way unless Germany and Spain agree to France controlling engine and airframe development and production of both.

We aren't joining any program.
The development of jv for future amca engine is separate matter, though technologies developed from it can be used in fcas engine if we go with France.

 

[DancingPeacock]

View attachment 23915
Why are they calling this a 6th-gen jet? Adaptive cycle engines are what truly set 6th-gen apart from 5th-gen, and during its first flight, it was clearly using a regular engine—you can tell from the smoke trail it left behind.

Hmm. From what I learnt after reading through gazillion of forums, the chinese haven't reached the 5th-Gen yet like F-135 or F-119 forget about 6th-Gen. Sure they have mastered 4th-Gen. About 6th-Gen, the Primary factor is all aspect stealth. Initially this model looked like it had folding tail. But recent photographs disproved that and showed it has some wingtip control mechanism rather than flaps seen on J-36. I don't know how that can control yaw in extreme maneuverability scenarios. The J-36 is seen akin to a Air to Air Interdictor sniping enemy planes but the J-50 seems to be the 6th-Gen mainframe backbone "Fighter" per se. Whether the PLAAF accepts the reduced maneuverability or such reduced maneuverability would be the norm with USA even is another thing.

 

[randombully]

Hmm. From what I learnt after reading through gazillion of forums, the chinese haven't reached the 5th-Gen yet like F-135 or F-119 forget about 6th-Gen. Sure they have mastered 4th-Gen. About 6th-Gen, the Primary factor is all aspect stealth. Initially this model looked like it had folding tail. But recent photographs disproved that and showed it has some wingtip control mechanism rather than flaps seen on J-36. I don't know how that can control yaw in extreme maneuverability scenarios. The J-36 is seen akin to a Air to Air Interdictor sniping enemy planes but the J-50 seems to be the 6th-Gen mainframe backbone "Fighter" per se. Whether the PLAAF accepts the reduced maneuverability or such reduced maneuverability would be the norm with USA even is another thing.

You should clarify that when you mention 5th gen you are talking about engine generation, not fighter generation.
And about j36, it has big enough weapons way to carry stand off land attack and anti ship munitions.
It's primarly designed as a long Range strike fighter-bomber and command centre, but like every other fighter it will be multirole and can be used other missions to like air to air role, long range patrol etc.

 

[Operatorr]

It's a 6th gen "airframe".
And I expect these(especially larger j36) to enter service around 2035.
By that time all the "future" 6th gen tech will developed by china( engine could be exception, don't know if they can develop them by 2035 but work on chinese adaptive cycle engine has begun , but again if they can still get enough thrust and power from current 3 engine set ups to fulfill future needs then good enough).

Engines are just a component, a powersource.
Why do you need adaptive cycle engine? It's not just adaptive cycle, these engines are highly efficient and powerful for their size, the adaptive cycle of the engine helps redistribute power at lower speeds to power electronics also to operate more efficiently at lower speeds, and then Change the cycle to prioritise thrust for higher speeds.
But what if you can get enough thrust and electrical power while fulfilling range and endurance from the current set up already?

they cant even make a jet engine on par with ruskies bro how do you even expect china to make a 6th gen engine before 2035

 

[DancingPeacock]

You should clarify that when you mention 5th gen you are talking about engine generation, not fighter generation.
And about j36, it has big enough weapons way to carry stand off land attack and anti ship munitions.
It's primarly designed as a long Range strike fighter-bomber and command centre, but like every other fighter it will be multirole and can be used other missions to like air to air role, long range patrol etc.

F-135 and F-119 are engines. They sure have mastered the airframe aspect- aka all aspect Stealth with those two airframes J-36 and J-50.

 

[randombully]

they cant even make a jet engine on par with ruskies bro how do you even expect china to make a 6th gen engine before 2035

Because jet engine is one of the if not "The" Hardest tech to master, and they did create successful 4th gen engine( albet still worse than western 4th gen) but they are pouring billions of dollars worth of money and constantly developing better versions, and just like every other tech, the starting is slow and it gets progressively faster, chinese have develop a base successfuly and they have money, intention and will to develop leap directly into 6th gen engine, which given previous track recods is highly possible by 2035.

And they have caught up with other 5th gen tech.
Jet engine Is the only tech tech where china still lacks behind west significantly.

 

[helin]

they cant even make a jet engine on par with ruskies bro how do you even expect china to make a 6th gen engine before 2035

China now has WS 15, WS19

 

[Operatorr]

China now has WS 15, WS19

Not even 13 minutes and a chinese is already here

 

[randombully]

China now has WS 15, WS19

Ws 19 developed? Completely?

 

[helin]

Ws 19 developed? Completely?

Already tested on J35

Mass production time is not far away

 

[randombully]

Already tested on J35

Mass production time is not far away

What's the dry thrust?
What's the max thrust? 90kn? 110kn?

 

[JTP]

Keep laughing at your enemy (Chinese) while they outshine you everyday. This is for our jingoistic Indians who cant see the big picture.

 

[NerVik]

Keep laughing at your enemy (Chinese) while they outshine you everyday. This is for our jingoistic Indians who cant see the big picture.

They can't see the picture if you showed it to them for free in iMax.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Keep laughing at your enemy (Chinese) while they outshine you everyday. This is for our jingoistic Indians who cant see the big picture.

Hmm isn't every 2 out of 3 message on this forum is about lamenting about appalling situation of Armed Forces. Is it some gotcha like? Enlightenment for us plebs from you?

Everyone with a braincell here knows that our asses gonna be whooped, it's only a matter of when. There is no need of your gyaan here.

 

[Kontakt5]

Apparently F/A-XX won't use adaptive cycle engines either in order to keep the program separate from NGAD and keep costs lower. If F/A-XX is supposedly a 6th generation platform, and the USA, the leader of aerospace science doesn't fit ACE onto it, what exactly defines 6th gen?

I don't think other aerospace programs are on topic with the AMCA thread, AMCA will use 5th generation engines and that will put it on par with the modern aircraft currently in service now. Arguing semantics of what engines may be equipped on future fighters that we know little about is pointless as is.