DRDO and PSU's

Okabe Rintarou said:
AL-31 variant on Su-30 has 76.5 kN
AL-41 variant on Su-35 has 86.3 kN
10 kN difference.

What is the confusion? Are you getting confused with wet thrust? That is what I said:-
Click to expand...
Why are you assuming that the thrust increase is only for dry ? Wouldn't they mention both if it was separate. If we are getting Al-41. Dry and wet both will increase, right.
 
Nutcracker said:
Why are you assuming that the thrust increase is only for dry ? Wouldn't they mention both if it was separate. If we are getting Al-41. Dry and wet both will increase, right.
Click to expand...
So here is the confusion,
1. What kind of technological breakthrough made the thrust increase? Is it Single Crystal Blades or Blisk or Fan Inlet Diameter increase or Turbine Inlet Temperature increase?
2. Is the technology for the upgraded engine indigenously developed demonstrating increased capability in our metallurgy or its just russkies imparting some developed from their own AL-41?
3. What does it mean when entire engine is built from Raw Materials? Does it mean Afterburner section also?
4. The final most burning question is keeping aside whether russkies like it or not, whether they approve it or not, if Modi orders HAL to print a AL-31 engine, can they be able to do it? Or are there still subcomponents in Engine need to be imported from Russia directly which we are not able to indigenize?
 
Nutcracker said:
Why are you assuming that the thrust increase is only for dry ? Wouldn't they mention both if it was separate. If we are getting Al-41. Dry and wet both will increase, right.
Click to expand...
Indeed. But reason I am only assuming it is about dry thrust is because the upgrades listed will increase dry thrust. Nothing about the AB is mentioned. Which is why I am also confused if they are talking about a domestic upgrade or did someone finally blink in the AL-41 negotiations.
 
Pundit Pikachu said:
Do you not know how to read cause It literally written right there on the document that it's an indigenous in house development.
View attachment 6590
Click to expand...
What does it even mean, if bel is doing it then why Japan was involved. This is why our projects are smoke and mirrors and endless B's without inductions in numbers or time. Interim mean same shit testing now and then, is interim not good enough? Then why all this halla bulla on every product branded as indigenous when it's domestically made. I know how to read and digest. I am calling out on the nonsense of calling indigenous a domestic solution.
I can speculate the seeds of this confusion anywhere from license production to cheap political points. If interim is domestic then don't call iim indigenous as it's implicit unless they are covering it.
 
Germany has two awesome turrets for their armoured vehicles.
1. RCT30 - Unmanned RCWS
2. Lance 2.0 - Manned

Soon, IA will also have two new generation weapon turrets for their armoured vehicles.
1. NAMICA MK-2 turret
namica-mk2.jpg
2. DRDO unmanned turret
RDT_20220828_0157066939473470453492943.webp
2.
 
Ultraman said:
update on GE engines .

US is really pushing stryker on us and people on twitter were claiming it was other way around , we were asking them for it.

high level US plan seem to be to slowly try to replace Russian dependency with US one . like with Ukraine .


View: https://twitter.com/Gokul_Sahni/status/1824625330965057549


View: https://twitter.com/Gokul_Sahni/status/1824628451971829843
Click to expand...

Why even Stryker? Its so random. There are so many things that can be imported from US that makes sense whether Seahawk Helicopters, P8 Poseidon, E-7 Wedgetail, C-130J Super Hercules, Predator Drones, LRASM, Global Hawk. Even so many in Electronic Warfare systems in L3Harris or Raytheon. If they want to derail indigenous products, then still there are so many important projects (Iam not advocating for it). Why a Wheeled Combat Vehicle?
 
SlayingHell said:
Why even Stryker? Its so random. There are so many things that can be imported from US that makes sense whether Seahawk Helicopters, P8 Poseidon, E-7 Wedgetail, C-130J Super Hercules, Predator Drones, LRASM, Global Hawk. Even so many in Electronic Warfare systems in L3Harris or Raytheon. If they want to derail indigenous products, then still there are so many important projects (Iam not advocating for it). Why a Wheeled Combat Vehicle?
Click to expand...

there are 10 or 12 variants for stryker , for separate roles . maybe they think IA generals will be interested .
 
SlayingHell said:
Why even Stryker? Its so random. There are so many things that can be imported from US that makes sense whether Seahawk Helicopters, P8 Poseidon, E-7 Wedgetail, C-130J Super Hercules, Predator Drones, LRASM, Global Hawk. Even so many in Electronic Warfare systems in L3Harris or Raytheon. If they want to derail indigenous products, then still there are so many important projects (Iam not advocating for it). Why a Wheeled Combat Vehicle?
Click to expand...

don't expect too much logic behind decisions taken regarding India by muricans on their own, especially the ones GoI has not lobbied for, there are hardly any good policy advisors in DC who can give a non-ideological realistic view on India related matters. as you said, this is so random that it looks like some mid-level bureaucrat inserted it into the text.

what we know so far:

- there was a plan during obama presidency to explore joint defence manufacturing in India
- L&T did refurbish wheeled combat vehicles(not stryker) for phillipines army a few years back
- murican official communication did not mention stryker, they only said armoured vehicle along with jet engines.
- it's the hindu which brought in the stryker angle, saying IA asked for it. (possibly some dalal inserted this angle )
- if this is not resolved now, GoI has to wait for their next president to get settled in office.
ezsasa said:
two line items came up at the same time from iCET, armoured vehicle and jet engines.

hypothetically ..

if you are in doval's place, across the table your murican counterpart is giving hints that one cannot happen without the other, what would you do? sacrifice 50000 crore LCA project at the cost of 5000 crore stryker?


www.whitehouse.gov

FACT SHEET: United States and India Elevate Strategic Partnership with the initiative on Critical and Emerging Technology (iCET) | The White House

President Biden and Prime Minister Modi announced the U.S.-India initiative on Critical and Emerging Technology (iCET) in May 2022 to elevate and expand
www.whitehouse.gov www.whitehouse.gov

economictimes.indiatimes.com

India, US discuss co-producing jet engines, long-range artillery, infantry vehicles

At a meeting with Indian Defence Secretary Giridhar Aramane at the Pentagon, US Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks termed the proposals to co-produce jet engines, long-range artillery and infantry vehicles under iCET "unprecedented opportunities" to strengthen ties between the defence...
economictimes.indiatimes.com economictimes.indiatimes.com
Click to expand...
 
www.team-bhp.com

Why is it so hard to design and build an indigenous engine | Team-BHP

BHPian greenhorn recently shared this with other enthusiasts.I was reading about the new light combat tank here, and after a bit of digging, I noticed that the engine is a Cummins. I noticed that we have ...
www.team-bhp.com www.team-bhp.com

To all generol haters ,unfortunately even aam janata is happy with foreign maal. Desi baniyas ( business men irrespective of caste ) are happy with screwdrivergiri and fooling masses with talks of indegionous tech.

"Our Indian manufacturers have grown up and building their own engines. They do need to work with companies like AVL as they have time-tested advanced simulation environments."

Hopium copium devoid of facts , just like license manufacturing Russian engines don't make HAL IP owners or give them expertise for clean state design e.g the Tejas saga ( along with Kaveri engine troubles ) since 1990s.

Detractors of my reasoning will have to prove (for any quality discussion) how much ip tata /Mahindra actually own or have self developed etc wrt ice technology.


"Bosch builds electronics which are used by literally every manufacturer. These devices can be built by others, but Bosch has proven reliability over the years. It is best to use the product from their factory."

If the comparision is with western automotive manufacturers ,yes they too use technology from others but they on their own hold many patents ( that are useful and have been incorporated into production models) in key technology areas

e g Benz using technology from Bosch

group.mercedes-benz.com

Mercedes-Benz and Bosch driverless parking system: Approved for commercial use | Mercedes-Benz Group

Mercedes-Benz and Bosch have reached an important milestone on the way to automated driving: Germany’s Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA) has approved their highly automated parking system for use in the P6 parking garage run by APCOA at Stuttgart Airport.
group.mercedes-benz.com group.mercedes-benz.com


But then consider the technical ip that Benz holds by itself
"On January 29, 1886, Carl Benz registered a patent for a “vehicle powered by a gaseous fuel engine.” Since then, we have refined automobiles with more than 114,000 patent applications and developed numerous pioneering innovations. Our current focus involves the CASE technologies."

group.mercedes-benz.com

Intellectual Property protects our ideas — and freedom to act | Mercedes-Benz Group

On January 29, 1886, Carl Benz registered a patent for a “vehicle powered by a gaseous fuel engine.” Since then, we have refined automobiles with more than 114,000 patent applications and developed numerous pioneering innovations. Our current focus involves the CASE technologies.
group.mercedes-benz.com group.mercedes-benz.com

Unless we accept the facts what we are lacking in key areas and acknowledge that we depend on other advanced economies for critical technologies , how are we going to develop those on our own?

Safety quality and research these are the basic tenets required for us to develop key technologies, unfortunately private sector and our society as a whole don't take the three aspects seriously.

e.g safety/quality - cough syruph contamination, fda notice to pharma manufacturers , people tried to paint it as a conspiracy by westerners , instead of getting to the root cause and rectifying it.

"For Manu Saale to quit Mercedes and work for Mahindra, it would have to be a very sweet deal."

A single leader will help but more importantly we should create the ecosystem , private companies willing to invest heavily in research, researchers getting good career prospects.

"But BEML is developing an indigenous 1500 HP engine for military vehicles though."
regarding that I have already wrote here , for the interested dig into technology tranfer from tetra bamer polish company to beml hanging fire since 90s.

"Tata/Mahindra/Bajaj/Hero/Royal Enfield/TVS etc leaning on specialist firms is a no-brainer because such firms spend a significant amount of R&D on engine development. After all, it is their only business. So for a relatively small fee, Indian companies will get access to the best ICE technology. They can then focus on what really matters for Tata/Mahindra/Bajaj - which is overall product development."

With all due respect - true baniya speak, this is what makes indian companies to import api in bulk from china to manufacture medicine ( whose basic research was done by foreign pharma firms ) and then make tall claims of being pharmacy to world.

This tall claim was stress tested when usa stopped critical inputs for Oxford vaccine ( which was misleadingly presented as indigenous vaccine from SII), don't take my opinion as negative ,but we have to criticise our current practises so that we improve and become technologically independent.


"we see this specialization phenomenon more prominently in aircraft engines. Whether it is Boeing or Airbus or Embraer or COMAC,"

Very good to compare tata, Mahindra with Boeing or Airbus but as mentioned in the case with Bosch/Benz do try to grasp the fact that Boeing and Airbus on their own are leaders in key aviation technology, that they developed in house.

We can take this in rage and try to shout and claim we are number one in technology or we can do a calm analysis of the facts, dig deeper and accept shortcomings where identified and acknowledge our dependece on Western technology and then take necessary measures to overcome them .
 
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Nutcracker said:
Given how big su30's nosecone was if whole cavity was filled with radar only, even two AL31 might've found it difficult to power the whole radar.. I always thought of swashplate like eurocanards + enlarged Uttam for su,30.
Click to expand...
Can't they get a larger starter-generator in AL-31FP. I saw a 110kW unit somewhere in HAL that is operational. Couldn't they squeeze out another 10kW by say advanced avionics using less electric power? What about cooling? If only a 2000 TRM GaN AESA could be installed on Su-30MKI, it would be a beast.
I heard the earlier variants of Su-57 and J-20 flew on AL-31, if then how were they able to power the huge radars present in both of them?
 
SlayingHell said:
Can't they get a larger starter-generator in AL-31FP. I saw a 110kW unit somewhere in HAL that is operational. Couldn't they squeeze out another 10kW by say advanced avionics using less electric power? What about cooling? If only a 2000 TRM GaN AESA could be installed on Su-30MKI, it would be a beast.
I heard the earlier variants of Su-57 and J-20 flew on AL-31, if then how were they able to power the huge radars present in both of them?
Click to expand...
AL31 was used pnly for prototype/ Tech Demonstrator variants. There is a reason both of them got upgraded engines for production run.
 
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