DRDO and PSU's

[Blood+]

We can't keep manufacturing LRSAM for very long as it's not viable. When you've a smaller home market and also a very unreliable one then the only way to survive is on foreign markets. Today people are all praise for MKU and Tonbo Imaging but imagine what would have happened if they had not received international orders in their initial years.

But the problem with using someone else's IPR like in the case of Barak-8 is that they define the market in which you're allowed to sell it and most of time it's just the home market. PLR can't sell its Tavors or Galils in USA because then they would be eating market share of IWI-US.

Another interesting and quite funny fact is that we also have some IPRs in Barak-8 as it was a joint development; especially the later upgradation to a dual-pulse rocket motor are all ours. So by the same logic, IAI can't sell a dual-pulse rocket motor variant of Barak-8 in international market unless we allow them. This was the whole reason why IAI ditched this whole Israel - India joint venture thing and made a completely new Barak-8 family by the name Barak-MX all by itself so that they can sell it without needing any permission or sharing royalty.

Ok, so why don't we just replace the seeker with an Indian one (perhaps one of those new AESA ones they made for AAMs and , scaled to a suitable proportion of course) and call it a day?? Maybe add a booster to it.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Ok, so why don't we just replace the seeker with an Indian one (perhaps one of those new AESA ones they made for AAMs and , scaled to a suitable proportion of course) and call it a day?? Maybe add a booster to it.

View attachment 8583

Credits: marich01

 

[fire starter]

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[Ayan Barat]

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View attachment 8617

The most interesting part of this is not that we're doing a CFD of bus but rather the bus diameter of 754mm

We only have three missiles that use more or less the same rocket motor; a 740mm caliber motor...

...Pralay, Shaurya and Sagarika

So apparently a Pralay with three N-capable MIRV
Noice

 

[fire starter]

View: https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1832128105466781914?t=tH7bN6PbRCtq-BLeVanxZQ&s=19

 

[Azaad]

The most interesting part of this is not that we're doing a CFD of bus but rather the bus diameter of 754mm

We only have three missiles that use more or less the same rocket motor; a 740mm caliber motor...
View attachment 8622
...Pralay, Shaurya and Sagarika

So apparently a Pralay with three N-capable MIRV
Noice

How's a TBM capable of being an MIRV missile ? What are we missing here ? Besides the Shaurya & Sagarika are practically one & the same.

 

[Ayan Barat]

How's a TBM capable of being an MIRV missile ? What are we missing here ? Besides the Shaurya & Sagarika are practically one & the same.

Not just two, but rather all three are just different stages of a metamorphosis like process.

Sagarika (pure SLBM, with hydrodynamic cap) -> Shaurya (unmodified Sagarika, still having the hydrodynamic cap but used as a quasi-ballistic missile) -> Pralay (highly refined version of Shaurya, with all SLBM featured omitted)

You can definitely use MIRV in TBM role. Why wouldn't you want more redundancy against an threat that has sophisticated ABM capabilities? And even if cost factor doesn't make sense in last two, you'd definitely want MIRV capability in your SLBMs.

 

[Blood+]

Are these the Su-35 engines?... 122kN upgraded to 132kN?

There's even a 142kN version for Su-37.

Where did you find that??!!

 

[Bleh]

Where did you find that??!!

AL-31FM1 version made for RAF Su-30SM gives out 132kN wet thrust. You can find the variants on wiki itself. There Chinese version AL-31 all has between 130-140kN thrust. Baaas hum hi chutiye hy, 25 saal me no progress.

The AL-41-F1S of Su-35 & Su-30SM2 gives out 137kN with afterburner. Older versions had AL-31FP of Su-30MKI

 

[Blood+]

AL-31FM1 version made for RAF Su-30SM gives out 132kN wet thrust. You can find the variants on wiki itself. There Chinese version AL-31 all has between 130-140kN thrust. Baaas hum hi chutiye hy, 25 saal me no progress.

The AL-41-F1S of Su-35 & Su-30SM2 gives out 137kN with afterburner. Older versions had AL-31FP of Su-30MKI

Oh, ok never mind. I misunderstood your point, I thought you were saying that somehow WE had managed to find a way to increase the thrust of these engines. Anyways, I'm more interested in the dry thrust and what can be done to squeeze more of it out of these AL-31FPs.

 

[Nutcracker]

AL-31FM1 version made for RAF Su-30SM gives out 132kN wet thrust. You can find the variants on wiki itself. There Chinese version AL-31 all has between 130-140kN thrust. Baaas hum hi chutiye hy, 25 saal me no progress.

The AL-41-F1S of Su-35 & Su-30SM2 gives out 137kN with afterburner. Older versions had AL-31FP of Su-30MKI

Where did you find that??!!

Here.. 2200lbf

View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1823918363925516644?t=2tDcMSjB3Wi6k7xDuiixEw&s=19
View attachment 6601

 

[Bleh]

Here.. 2200lbf

2200lbf is 9.786kN.

So 122.6kN to increase to 132.4kN.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Well, regarding the confusion with Project Kusha, I initially thought that DRDO took Akash NG missile and integrated it with boosters of different shapes and grain configuration to improve range.

Then I had a closer look at the pic posted by Porky Kicker and came to the conclusion that M2 and M3 use a brand new missile which is distinctly different from M1.



Well, I was wrong.



Kusha uses a new missile design. It's neither Akash NG nor Barak-8.

M2 uses a 500 mm dia booster.
M3 uses a 730 mm dia booster.

All the three variants use the same base missile. This missile has dual solid rocket motors labelled P1 and P2. This new missile has a 60 kg warhead. Barak-8 ie Mrsam has a 23 kg warhead. This missile has a dia of 250 mm while Mrsam has 225 mm. Grain length of solid motor is more than 1500 mm. This new missile is thicker, longer and heavier than Barak-8.

Instead of emulating the Russian model of having three distinct missile designs for different ranges like in the S-400 Triumf, we decided to follow the MBDA and IAI Barak MX approach of having a single missile design integrated different boosters to meet different range requirements.

The Germans on the other hand have different missiles designs when it comes to their ground launched sam system, Iris T SLS SLM and SLX .



If you consider the booster, then M2 and M3 are three pulse rocket motor missile designs.

 

[Blood+]

2200lbf is 9.786kN.

So 122.6kN to increase to 132.3kN.
View attachment 8639

It's still a speculation though.

 

[Arihant Roy]

According to DRDO, Akash NG has a 30 km range.



Have a look at this missile and compare it with M1. You will see that the frontal cruciform control surfaces are located much further from the seeker bay in Akash NG vs the M1 missile design.



At present, Astra mk1, Qrsam, Akash NG, Akash prime share the same radome. But work is going on to improve acquisition range and in future NG will have a new seeker. An aesa seeker is also in the works.



Akash NG battery can track and engage 10 targets having 0.1sqm RCS simultaneously. This makes it capable of engaging very low RCS Tier 3 uas, ALCM and LACM and even TBM.

 

[Bleh]

It's still a speculation though.

142kN version engine of Su-30SM2 is too much to hope for from Indians.

 

[Arihant Roy]

Astra mk2 being launched from Su-30MKI.



This is a hot launch. Not a drop test or a captive carriage trial.



Dual pulse solid rocket motor of Astra mk2 being tested out on a ground rig.

 

[Arihant Roy]

AL-31FM1 version made for RAF Su-30SM gives out 132kN wet thrust. You can find the variants on wiki itself. There Chinese version AL-31 all has between 130-140kN thrust. Baaas hum hi chutiye hy, 25 saal me no progress.

The AL-41-F1S of Su-35 & Su-30SM2 gives out 137kN with afterburner. Older versions had AL-31FP of Su-30MKI

AL-31FM1 versions have been made for NAPO Su-34.

IAPO Su-30SM and SM2 use AL-31FP. And now there's an active program to switch to AL-41F1-S.

AL-41F1-S has a max wet thrust of 145 kN although Russians call this special thrust setting.

For normal usage, max wet thrust is 140 kN.



In Russia Flankers are built in Irkutsk and Komsomolsk on Amur. Our MKI originated in Irkutsk. The J-11 and it's various clones and the Su-30K that PLAAF use are from Knaaz in Komsomolsk. Both these plants use AL-31 series engines sourced from different engine makers for their Sukhoi 30 series. IAPO uses engines of NPO Saturn which makes the AL-31F and FP series. And the AL-41F1 and F1S. MMPP Salyut makes the AL-31FM variants which power Su-34 and Su-30K.

 

[Nutcracker]

AL-31FM1 versions have been made for NAPO Su-34.

IAPO Su-30SM and SM2 use AL-31FP. And now there's an active program to switch to AL-41F1-S.

AL-41F1-S has a max wet thrust of 145 kN although Russians call this special thrust setting.

For normal usage, max wet thrust is 140 kN.

View attachment 8646

In Russia Flankers are built in Irkutsk and Komsomolsk on Amur. Our MKI originated in Irkutsk. The J-11 and it's various clones and the Su-30K that PLAAF use are from Knaaz in Komsomolsk. Both these plants use AL-31 series engines sourced from different engine makers for their Sukhoi 30 series. IAPO uses engines of NPO Saturn which makes the AL-31F and FP series. And the AL-41F1 and F1S. MMPP Salyut makes the AL-31FM variants which power Su-34 and Su-30K.

So there are chances that we will opt for AL-31FM1 with 10kN higher thrust instead of FP. That's possible if we are changing supplier from NPOsaturn to Salyut.
How different can these engines are, can our ground force absorb the changes quickly ?

 

[Fatalis]

M2 uses a 500 mm dia booster.
M3 uses a 730 mm dia booster.

All the three variants use the same base missile. This missile has dual solid rocket motors labelled P1 and P2. This new missile has a 60 kg warhead. Barak-8 ie Mrsam has a 23 kg warhead. This missile has a dia of 250 mm while Mrsam has 225 mm. Grain length of solid motor is more than 1500 mm. This new missile is thicker, longer and heavier than Barak-8.

View: https://x.com/DefSysCI/status/1793654511632036193?t=fqtfvdkrxxaemo-_V7NabQ&s=19

But here you can see booster diameter is 350 mm. So chances are the configuration of missiles are old and there might have been some changes.