DRDO and PSU's

[Ayan Barat]

Like force feeding INSAS?

Yeah, kind of

Or maybe like shoving down AK-103M despite having TAR. Or perhaps like those new Robotic-Kukurs

 

[AbRaj]

This major guy gets high on his own c*m... Looks like his mental abilities are in terminal decline..

He is a Fauzi. If his boss told him that Import is only option , then import is only option for him. From where the money will come, will there be any supply line constraints during war or political arm twisting will be done, a Fauzi doesn’t need to think about it and can always blame others like GOI/DRDO/HAL/Americans/British/French/Isrealis for their own failures.
As per him Weapon procurement is not different from Sabzi khareeding from local Sunday bazar

 

[Chinmoy]

Yeah, kind of

Or maybe like shoving down AK-103M despite having TAR. Or perhaps like those new Robotic-Kukurs

Or maybe like shoving down AK-103M despite having TAR.

Yeah. Equip the whole infantry line with TAR and change the training regime from Top to Bottom.

Or perhaps like those new Robotic-Kukurs[/QUOTE]

Which is taking over the surveillance part.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Yeah. Equip the whole infantry line with TAR and change the training regime from Top to Bottom.

Please tell me you misunderstood TAR [Trichy Assault Rifle] as TAR [Tavor TAR-21] otherwise you've no idea how absurd you're sounding by saying you'll need to change traning regime if you induct an *checks notes* AK in 7.62x39mm instead of an *checks notes* AK in 7.62x39mm.

As for surveillance using Robotic-Kukurs, tell me the value Vs cost of it compared to say a medium sized fixed wing UAV. Consider all parameters like speed, field of view, price, endurance, signal range.

 

[KAB7777]

Where is M-SHORAD?

x.com

x.com

By any chance is this you?

 

[Bhaubai]

View: https://x.com/tataadvanced/status/1891452621312970893?t=Bz-FN7cm9rCHjCb8ziBDTg&s=19

 

[Indianhawk]

People here are indeed focused on the right thing in this forum. Have you been on former DFI, you would have known that people here genuinely wants India to become truly sovereign and not be a mere vassalguru. They have seen enough BS from this whole musing of MoD, forces and Chandigarh lobby to see what is right or wrong.

I've been on many forums. Most people on on-line forums are lack critical thinking and are either over enthusiasts or over pessimist.

You say you want india to be truly sovereign then you must understand how important GE engines f404, f414 are for our domestic jet programs ( lca mk1a , mk2 , Amca, tebdf) in the medium term. Where do they come from. You think USA will allow you to build so much domestic capabilities without demanding anything in return. These programmes and tot for f414 are way way more important for our sovereignty over long term then few Strykers here and there.

Besides whole lot of US origin systems are being integrated into theaters against China so that in war time when china attacks Indian defence production hubs , US can supply those equipment faster.

US build Apache fuselage in India and imports it back to USA. Does that mean USA is not sovereign. It will happen for many more systems.

If west has to match china in terms of weapons manufacturing India will have to become hub for defence manufacturing. Obviously it will have to buy some of the weapons being manufactured locally too.

WhAP is going nowhere it will get its numbers . Just like lca is getting 200 jets numbers even if a bit delayed.

 

[Blademaster]

I've been on many forums. Most people on on-line forums are lack critical thinking and are either over enthusiasts or over pessimist.

You say you want india to be truly sovereign then you must understand how important GE engines f404, f414 are for our domestic jet programs ( lca mk1a , mk2 , Amca, tebdf) in the medium term. Where do they come from. You think USA will allow you to build so much domestic capabilities without demanding anything in return. These programmes and tot for f414 are way way more important for our sovereignty over long term then few Strykers here and there.

Besides whole lot of US origin systems are being integrated into theaters against China so that in war time when china attacks Indian defence production hubs , US can supply those equipment faster.

US build Apache fuselage in India and imports it back to USA. Does that mean USA is not sovereign. It will happen for many more systems.

If west has to match china in terms of weapons manufacturing India will have to become hub for defence manufacturing. Obviously it will have to buy some of the weapons being manufactured locally too.

WhAP is going nowhere it will get its numbers . Just like lca is getting 200 jets numbers even if a bit delayed.

If modi orders 1000 WHaPs and 300 Strykers then I’m good with it. Indian Army needs massive mechanization of its forces anyway.

 

[Bleh]

It's Gan aesa . .
View attachment 24642
It is also having electronic warfare & passive mode operation.

Missed the chance to name it Ganesha

 

[Bleh]

As for surveillance using Robotic-Kukurs, tell me the value Vs cost of it compared to say a medium sized fixed wing UAV. Consider all parameters like speed, field of view, price, endurance, signal range.

Surveillance smurveillance.

Starwars kukur wants

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5gCd3y8JzE

Also I'm gonna do another classic "Bleh prediction"
The robonaut-centaur & centaur will actually work as combat drone & exoskeleton over any robo kukur or khacchar. We already got Vyommitra who can mimic the operator movements at long distances. Tremendous military potential!

 

[Ayan Barat]

Surveillance smurveillance.

Starwars kukur wants

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5gCd3y8JzE

How are you going traverse for aiming?
Chinese Kukur : Leggsss
How are you going to elevate for aiming?
Chinese Kukur : Legggsss
What are you going to use for recoil control?
Chinese Kukur : Leggggssss
Fine then, fire on this target
Le Chinese Kukur :

Jokes aside, here's the serious point I was trying to convey about these quads; their Value Vs Cost

Below is the comparison of [Spot] which is perhaps the most matured robotic dog and a generic Chinese VTOL UAV {CW-25E}
• Max weight [32kg] {31.5kg}
• Max speed [5.7km/h] {70km/h}
• Max runtime [90min] {150min}
• Max standby [180min] {150min}
• Max payload [14kg] {6.6kg}
• Cost [0.65Cr] {0.27Cr}

And here comes the question that why should I spend let's say 6.5Cr for just 10 robotic dogs when in the same amount I can get 24 UAVs?

There's no doubt about some pros like you can make it "sit" by turning everything off with just its cameras running for an exceptional on-station time compared to an UAV which needs to continuously expend power even when "idle". Or the fact that you can sneak close to a ground target in jungle without alerting anyone whereas in case of a small UAV; it's both noisy and can't get a look inside the foliage.

But so are the cons. Exponentially slow, can cover hardly 10km before needing a recharge, even if you add auxiliary batteries then also range can't go beyond 30km mark, the wireless LOS range can even get 0km because it's traversing in rough terrain with trees and valleys and what not (compared to an UAV which is at 2-3km of altitude, the horizon's at 160km), limited field of view from ground level (from 2km an UAV can scan a large area) and obviously the price.

I'm not saying bio-mimic robots don't have any application, they definitely have and can even radically transform the logistics scenario in militaries...BUT NOT NOW. It's like if you ask someone from 1910 that whether it's possible to use "plastic" to make gun. He'd probably have the best laugh of his life but today almost all of the modern guns are made up of plastic. So was the idea dumb in 1910? No, we just didn't have the required kind of plastics and as with time we invented nylon and fibre reinforcement we're now comfortable doing it. So this idea of robotic dogs too would need some innovation in other fields like motor, battery and RF link before it can reach its maximum potential.

 

[Bleh]

How are you going traverse for aiming?
Chinese Kukur : Leggsss
How are you going to elevate for aiming?
Chinese Kukur : Legggsss
What are you going to use for recoil control?
Chinese Kukur : Leggggssss
Fine then, fire on this target
Le Chinese Kukur :
View attachment 25443
Jokes aside, here's the serious point I was trying to convey about these quads; their Value Vs Cost

Below is the comparison of [Spot] which is perhaps the most matured robotic dog and a generic Chinese VTOL UAV {CW-25E}
• Max weight [32kg] {31.5kg}
• Max speed [5.7km/h] {70km/h}
• Max runtime [90min] {150min}
• Max standby [180min] {150min}
• Max payload [14kg] {6.6kg}
• Cost [0.65Cr] {0.27Cr}

And here comes the question that why should I spend let's say 6.5Cr for just 10 robotic dogs when in the same amount I can get 24 UAVs?

There's no doubt about some pros like you can make it "sit" by turning everything off with just its cameras running for an exceptional on-station time compared to an UAV which needs to continuously expend power even when "idle". Or the fact that you can sneak close to a ground target in jungle without alerting anyone whereas in case of a small UAV; it's both noisy and can't get a look inside the foliage.

But so are the cons. Exponentially slow, can cover hardly 10km before needing a recharge, even if you add auxiliary batteries then also range can't go beyond 30km mark, the wireless LOS range can even get 0km because it's traversing in rough terrain with trees and valleys and what not (compared to an UAV which is at 2-3km of altitude, the horizon's at 160km), limited field of view from ground level (from 2km an UAV can scan a large area) and obviously the price.

I'm not saying bio-mimic robots don't have any application, they definitely have and can even radically transform the logistics scenario in militaries...BUT NOT NOW. It's like if you ask someone from 1910 that whether it's possible to use "plastic" to make gun. He'd probably have the best laugh of his life but today almost all of the modern guns are made up of plastic. So was the idea dumb in 1910? No, we just didn't have the required kind of plastics and as with time we invented nylon and fibre reinforcement we're now comfortable doing it. So this idea of robotic dogs too would need some innovation in other fields like motor, battery and RF link before it can reach its maximum potential.

Bish that's a grenade launcher in the final model

 

[BON PLAN]

View: https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/status/1889651336897241542?s=19

I thought le francais like you viewed HAL as a backward moribund decrepit organization which is the reason Dassault virtually walked out of the deal then went to town expressing reservations about collaboration with HAL on their mfg processes apart from many other reasons, after agreeing to all the terms of the MMRCA tender.

What's changed now? They're still as inefficient. Didn't you see the outbursts of the IAF chief in public against HAL? @BON PLAN

It seems likely to give HAL at least some workshare.
I don't think the indian top brass to be happy to see HAL falling appart of a potential big deal.
These components are not world top technology, and HAL is a 2nd or 3rd source for it, so if HAL can't reach the quality level it's not so important, and if HAL is right, it's a good news for everyone.

Yes I've seen the surprising shouting of IAF chief about HAL. Very impressive ! But HAL is to big to fall, and too important in the indian landscape. The best is to help HAL to grow in quality, price, efficiency. But to do so HAL has to change. And it was why the MMRCA deal in 2011 failed with Dassault.
4 years after that things are changing....

 

[Azaad]

It seems likely to give HAL at least some workshare.

Why's that so ? Is SAFRAN into charity ?

I don't think the indian top brass to be happy to see HAL falling appart of a potential big deal.

What's that got to do with this deal ?

These components are not world top technology, and HAL is a 2nd or 3rd source for it, so if HAL can't reach the quality level it's not so important, and if HAL is right, it's a good news for everyone.

So you mean to say forged parts going into a High Bypass Turbo Fan are not that important for the functioning of the TF & there fore for the functioning & safety of the aircraft. I see. I learn new things everyday from le Francais for which I'm eternally grateful.

Yes I've seen the surprising shouting of IAF chief about HAL. Very impressive !

Was it shouting ? Couldn't tell . I'm losing my sense of hearing as I get on in years. But I trust your hearing more than I do mine.

But HAL is to big to fall, and too important in the indian landscape. The best is to help HAL to grow in quality, price, efficiency. But to do so HAL has to change.

So you're saying HAL hasn't changed. I agree with you . But then why did SAFRAN sign this deal with HAL ?

And it was why the MMRCA deal in 2011 failed with Dassault.
4 years after that things are changing....

 

[BON PLAN]

Why's it that so ? Is SAFRAN into charity ?

No. It's a strategic move.

 

[BON PLAN]

What's that got to do with this deal ?

May be was it made to smooth the indian top brass position for the last west fighter mega deal.
It is my analysis.

 

[BON PLAN]

So you mean to say forged parts going into a High Bypass Turbo Fan are not that important for the functioning of the TF & there fore for the functioning & safety of the aircraft. I see. I learn new things everyday from le Francais for which I'm eternally grateful.

It is less important than single cristal blades for exemple.....
Thank you for your appreciation about french people

 

[BON PLAN]

So you're saying HAL hasn't changed. I agree with you . But then why did SAFRAN sign this deal with HAL ?

I don't know. I'm just saying that MMRCA deal failed due to the fact that Indian want Dassault a full warranty on Rafale jets made by HAL without the possibility to check and correct HAL potential failures.

I also see a IAF chef explaining he's not comfortable (at least) with HAL.

So I hope they changed or are ready to.

 

[Patriots]

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1891528444824944890

 

[Azaad]

I don't know. I'm just saying that MMRCA deal failed due to the fact that Indian want Dassault a full warranty on Rafale jets made by HAL without the possibility to check and correct HAL potential failures.

MMRCA failed coz Dassault walked back on their word. If Dassault had reservations about HAL it's should have issued a dissenting note or a note of no conformance when submitting their technical & commercial bids.They did no such thing.

It was only once negotiations commenced after they were declared the winner that they reneged on their word making excuses blaming HAL . That's the long & short of it.

I also see a IAF chef explaining he's not comfortable (at least) with HAL.

So I hope they changed or are ready to.

Didn't you check this one out ? Pls do.

Post in thread 'Indian Navy Developments & Discussions' https://defenceforumbharat.com/threads/indian-navy-developments-discussions.28/post-89828

It's all part of the great game of politics we Indians right from the bottom tier of society to the very top love to play .