DRDO and PSU's

[Ayan Barat]

It seems now the Iskander and Oniks have similar weights of around 3.5 ish tons and 600 km range.

• Ballistic Missile usually don't have a fixed warhead, rather a curve of warhead Vs range. For Iskander it's 700kg at 500km to 500kg to 400km.
• For BrahMos it's a fixed 300kg at 850km.

• Iskander not only let's you play in the warhead weight but also supports multiple different warhead types compared to just SAPHE on BrahMos.

Russia or any other force standardize around Oniks considering that both costs nearly same?

• The biggest reason for using Oniks is it's cost. Oniks/BrahMos is an insanely expensive weapon because of things like active radar seeker and ramjet engine. I don't have any hard data but my estimation is it's $5 mil a pop for BrahMos; should be slightly less for Oniks.
• Iskander is an extremely simple missile compared to BrahMos. Just a big solid booster, warhead, a CAS and a rudimentary INS + GNSS in majority of the variants. We again don't have any hard data but a similar ATACMS cost $1.5m per shot.

• This is where simple ballistic missiles shine; you can do a barrage attack with them because you can fire 3x. If BrahMos would haven't been so expensive then we'd have seen more of them on our warships instead of just 16.

What's the special necessity of less survivable quasi-ballistic missile when it goes only to low supersonic at terminal phase bleeding energy

• Every single weapon is for one specific target, we can definitely use it for others but the efficiency would decrease. A full power rifle can go through most of the body armours but this doesn't mean we can replace pistol, SMGs and shotguns with those.
• There are numerous targets like forward staging areas that need multiple missile like and don't have adequate ADS to counter a quasi-ballistic missiles; you can't waste $15 mil for this.

I don't believe on Ramjets being expensive to manufacture. It's just economies of scale problem.

This same applies to Iskander too. If economies of scale is utilised to its fullest then a solid rocket motor would be cheaper than ramjet because before Iskander way more solid rocket motors have been made compared to numbers of liquid ramjet before Oniks.

Again, my whole argument is based on the current scenario. If someone comes up tomorrow with a $2 mil supersonic cruise missile then there's absolutely no need for these short range ballistic missiles, throw them away. But till then this is the most efficient way

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Hansa NG: Hits a "Canadian" Roadblock - alphadefense.in

Hansa NG, India’s first indigenous trainer aircraft, faces a setback as Rotax blocks engine supply. Explore more..

alphadefense.in

Cockblocked by Canada.

 

[Azaad]

Hansa NG: Hits a "Canadian" Roadblock - alphadefense.in

Hansa NG, India’s first indigenous trainer aircraft, faces a setback as Rotax blocks engine supply. Explore more..

alphadefense.in

Cockblocked by Canada.

Good. Gives us an excuse to block the Strykers. It comes from a GD plant in Canada.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

There seems contradicting reports regarding NG-CCM. DRDO developing an NG-CCM. Nothing to do with ASRAAM.

IAF inducts ASRAAM as NG-CCM.

So the weapon will be called as NG-CCM. So the product from DRDO will receive an name.

AFAIK block 6 ASRAAMs are called NG-CCM and older block 5 missiles are just called ASRAAM. Plan was to induct in-development Astra-IR as NGCCM but IAF was in a hurry and Block 6 ASRAAMs were given this nomenclature instead.

 

[Varoon4]

Good. Gives us an excuse to block the Strykers. It comes from a GD plant in Canada.

Or make the purchase of the Strykers conditional on supply of the Rotax engines.

 

[Azaad]

Or make the purchase of the Strykers conditional on supply of the Rotax engines.

Those engines will be available anyway once Turdeau is out of office & Poilievre is in.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Or make the purchase of the Strykers conditional on supply of the Rotax engines.

Stryker is an failed product for us. Army can run that turd on Ladakh and call it success. But on anyday

WHAP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stryker.

As for ROTAX is concerned. DRDO/MOD Babus missed the trick of not using the countries industrial capabilities. We have 2 wheelers company with good understanding of air cooled engines. It is matter of priority.

 

[Ayan Barat]

We have 2 wheelers company with good understanding of air cooled engines.

Ah yes, India...the country famous for its automotive engines.

 

[Azaad]

Ah yes, India...the country famous for its automotive engines.

Isn't CVRDE developing an engine for Rustom in collaboration with Mahindra ? I distinctly recall reading about it some time back.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Isn't CVRDE developing an engine for Rustom in collaboration with Mahindra ? I distinctly recall reading about it some time back.

This thingy I guess...

But the thing is that we are pretty much in our infancy of automobile engines as compared to something like missiles where we are toe-to-toe with global contemporaries. Most of our R&D is still revolving around making an indigenous analogue of some basic engine; working on something more advanced would take a considerable time because of both lack funds and demands. Not just for PSUs but it's true for private players too. Perhaps even more unfortunate for private players because they've been very sluggish with engines despite having a huge market.

Rotax ones are opposed piston engines, these have better performance than traditional layouts but comes at the cost of advanced R&D. Take the example of Rotax 916; weighs just 86kg and puts out a max of 130hp in continuous. For the abovementioned VRDE one it's 195kg for 180hp.

(PS: In case someone brings in altitude and available power at low oxygen; SW-51 Mustang is powered by the same Rotax 916 and has a max operating altitude of 23,000ft)

 

[Binayak95]

Ah yes, India...the country famous for its automotive engines.

Imagine a 350 cc RE J series engine chugging along behind a Pusher drone.
I would pay folding money to see that

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Ah yes, India...the country famous for its automotive engines.

We are famous for the largest market of single cylinder engines. We simply perfected the art of manufacturing of these engines for decades.

Below 500cc, we have the best single cylinder bikes in the world. There is the reason these guys were surviving for decades long.

We do not manufacture an V8, V6. That does not mean these guys were simple chumps.

 

[fire starter]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1893885960577864181?t=rTcMwW4duUJGytQBhnQjLw&s=19
HMI for the CATS Warrior

 

[Azaad]

This thingy I guess...
View attachment 25961
But the thing is that we are pretty much in our infancy of automobile engines as compared to something like missiles where we are toe-to-toe with global contemporaries. Most of our R&D is still revolving around making an indigenous analogue of some basic engine; working on something more advanced would take a considerable time because of both lack funds and demands. Not just for PSUs but it's true for private players too. Perhaps even more unfortunate for private players because they've been very sluggish with engines despite having a huge market.

Rotax ones are opposed piston engines, these have better performance than traditional layouts but comes at the cost of advanced R&D. Take the example of Rotax 916; weighs just 86kg and puts out a max of 130hp in continuous. For the abovementioned VRDE one it's 195kg for 180hp.

(PS: In case someone brings in altitude and available power at low oxygen; SW-51 Mustang is powered by the same Rotax 916 and has a max operating altitude of 23,000ft)

I get your point . However , CVRDE has developed a 700 hp engine in collaboration with Ashok Leyland recently . If I'm not mistaken they've also developed the automatic transmission for it which means the entire power train something even RoK hasn't managed to achieve .

They're getting it from Germany yet that didn't prevent RoK from signing a ToT with Turkiye for their latest tanks.

Getting back to CVRDE & Mahindra , the latter has developed a series of engines which power their off roaders & they're pretty rugged too. Finesse will come with time.

At least we don't have to be at the mercy of some buffoon somewhere who thinks he holds the power of life over death vis a vis India.

Same story with Zorawar & its power pack. DRDO immediately switched to Cummins & I believe they're now developing the engine in house , with the result Germany is now chasing us for the Project 75 I tender being all accommodative.

How did this come about especially since we opted for Naval Group in the previous tender . It's coz NG played dirty with us & got the boot in this tender. If our situation with respect to submarines wasn't so dire , those 3 nos additional submarines wouldn't have materialised too.

We're actually rewarding those bastards for their underhanded dealings.

 

[ezsasa]

We are famous for the largest market of single cylinder engines. We simply perfected the art of manufacturing of these engines for decades.

Below 500cc, we have the best single cylinder bikes in the world. There is the reason these guys were surviving for decades long.

We do not manufacture an V8, V6. That does not mean these guys were simple chumps.

force motors

Force Motors: The lesser-known Facts about the Indian Manufacturer

An Indian manufacturer, Force Motors has been a well-known brand manufacturing sturdy commercial and Sports Utility vehicles. But the brand is much more

gomechanic.in

 

[Azaad]

force motors
View attachment 25975

View attachment 25976

Force Motors: The lesser-known Facts about the Indian Manufacturer

An Indian manufacturer, Force Motors has been a well-known brand manufacturing sturdy commercial and Sports Utility vehicles. But the brand is much more

gomechanic.in

The IPR would be vested with the principals I guess. Force Motors is only a contract manufacturer.