Electronics and Semiconductor Manufacturing Industry

Azaad said:
What prevents GoI from taking the initiative ? It can start out with our armed forces , DRDO labs , academia & the Pvt sector mixed together into a consortium with the armed forces being the project manager. Wasn't that how DARPA came up with the kind of inventions we use in everyday life like internet , mobile telephony etc ?

The primary aim must be the creation of a new OS for computers followed by one for all other devices like tablets , phones etc .
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BOSS was govt initiative. You know how it went. No committees(govt or private) have designed or delivered good product. IT minister went all the way to IIT chennai to celebrate and declare indian kids developed mobile OS ...only to realize it was poor fork of GrapheneOS more as PoC.. than a product with definite road map.
 
Anants said:
BOSS was govt initiative. You know how it went. No committees(govt or private) have designed or delivered good product. IT minister went all the way to IIT chennai to celebrate and declare indian kids developed mobile OS ...only to realize it was poor fork of GrapheneOS more as PoC.. than a product with definite road map.
Click to expand...
This is the reason I've asked for more stake holders being involved including academia & the Pvt sector , with a proper project management structure in place - deadlines , third party validation et al in a government funded project.

No clue who was funding mentoring or supervising the BOSS project .
 
Azaad said:
This is the reason I've asked for more stake holders being involved including academia & the Pvt sector , with a proper project management structure in place - deadlines , third party validation et al in a government funded project.
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Bhai Hum bhi wohi keh rahe hain. Bolded adiyal hain toh kya karein?
Azaad said:
No clue who was funding mentoring or supervising the BOSS project .
Click to expand...
GOI funded. Developed by CDAC
 
Anants said:
Bhai Hum bhi wohi keh rahe hain. Bolded adiyal hain toh kya karein?
Click to expand...
Nope. There's a difference. You're expecting them to start up self funded . I'm asking for a government funded initiative with other groups / bodies including the pvt sector as a partner.

Let's face it when the entire PC industry came up in the US it was a very niche sector. You could have an Apple labouring to create the hardware & software or an MS dedicated to S/W springing up. But the internet was a government enterprise.

I'm asking for something equivalent . An OS to replace MS & Android. I'm not referring to a Java or any other product with specific applications.
Anants said:
GOI funded. Developed by CDAC
Click to expand...
 
Azaad said:
Nope. There's a difference. You're expecting them to start up self funded . I'm asking for a government funded initiative with other groups / bodies including the pvt sector as a partner.
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Azaad as I already outlined in my earlier post. Govt started BOSS. Industry could have been proactive in atleast making apps and solutions for this operating system so that ease of use of OS could increase for the govt dept. For eg Zoho could have easily solved what one general was lamenting that BOSS did not allow presentations to be made. These were all low hanging fruits with huge margin had industry shown proactiveness. And You need to be in Industry to know how R&D vertical in these kind of service industries are sham. They mainly concentrate on creating or renaming enough tools at one point - which could help in showing Visa Petitions legible. Now why I am asking to create products ? (Remember i am not talking about products which are run of the mill like Calculator or CRUD applications - but i am talking about apps like Security apps, Secured communication apps, productivity apps, cloud infra ). Private companies would need to walk before they could run to develop OS from scratch. OS developments are iterative and are dependent on legacy Codebases created over decades. They would need to do mix of self development (grow vertically) and critical expensive acquisitions (grow horizontally).

OS's are like Turbine Engines. Long Gestation time, tough competition but always better to have home grown alternative. Truth is we don't have a private company in India which would like to develop new age Operating system ecosystem. Grand Thekedaars detest that. It would be difficult for you to understand.

Ok let me try. Since you are from mechanical field. This is rough analog. You know there are tons of suppliers to automotive plants in India. Each make tons of profit but have cut throat competition among each other to compete on price and time. They invest very little in adopting latest Industry practices and automation as they balk on seeing needed upfront onetime investment and worry more about next FY baseline than wager on something 2-3 years down the line. Its another matter they are getting massacred by Chinese substitutes slowly.

Same shall be case of Indian Service Industry in near future.

Azaad said:
But the internet was a government enterprise.
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Decades back after Snowden. Russia asked India to collaborate and invent own "Internet"(meaning defining our own standards and reinventing full protocol stack) to isolate ourselves from US blackmail and spring our own IT revolution from scratch. Guess what we did with this Golden Opportunity - same as what we did with UN Permanent Seat offer.
 
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Deloitte report
economictimes.indiatimes.com

Japanese firms keen to set up semiconductor units in India: Deloitte

Japanese firms are eager to establish semiconductor units in India, bringing expertise and specialization. India aims to have 10 semiconductor plants in 10 years. Successful partnerships between Indian and Japanese firms, along with government support, are essential for the sector's growth and...
economictimes.indiatimes.com economictimes.indiatimes.com
 
Anants said:
Azaad as I already outlined in my earlier post. Govt started BOSS. Industry could have been proactive in atleast making apps and solutions for this operating system so that ease of use of OS could increase for the govt dept. For eg Zoho could have easily solved what one general was lamenting that BOSS did not allow presentations to be made. These were all low hanging fruits with huge margin had industry shown proactiveness. And You need to be in Industry to know how R&D vertical in these kind of service industries are sham. They mainly concentrate on creating or renaming enough tools at one point - which could help in showing Visa Petitions legible. Now why I am asking to create products ? (Remember i am not talking about products which are run of the mill like Calculator or CRUD applications - but i am talking about apps like Security apps, Secured communication apps, productivity apps, cloud infra ). Private companies would need to walk before they could run to develop OS from scratch. OS developments are iterative and are dependent on legacy Codebases created over decades. They would need to do mix of self development (grow vertically) and critical expensive acquisitions (grow horizontally).

OS's are like Turbine Engines. Long Gestation time, tough competition but always better to have home grown alternative. Truth is we don't have a private company in India which would like to develop new age Operating system ecosystem. Grand Thekedaars detest that. It would be difficult for you to understand.

Ok let me try. Since you are from mechanical field. This is rough analog. You know there are tons of suppliers to automotive plants in India. Each make tons of profit but have cut throat competition among each other to compete on price and time. They invest very little in adopting latest Industry practices and automation as they balk on seeing needed upfront onetime investment and worry more about next FY baseline than wager on something 2-3 years down the line. Its another matter they are getting massacred by Chinese substitutes slowly.

Same shall be case of Indian Service Industry in near future.


Decades back after Snowden. Russia asked India to collaborate and invent own "Internet"(meaning defining our own standards and reinventing full protocol stack) to isolate ourselves from US blackmail and spring our own IT revolution from scratch. Guess what we did with this Golden Opportunity - same as what we did with UN Permanent Seat offer.
Click to expand...
Grand total of what you're saying can be summarised as GoI not only has to finance this undertaking it has to actively promote it which means being predatory about it eliminating competition i.e making it mandatory for all IT devices like PCs , tablets , Laptops , phones etc to EXCLUSIVELY carry this MII OS much like the Chinese who could afford to do so as they didn't have a lucrative IT services industry unlike us.

And we can't do it is coz if we tried the US will come down on us like a ton of bricks. However that still doesn't answer my question of why can't select government services like defence , R&D labs , etc EXCLUSIVELY access this OS wherein it's perfected within a closed group who're also its users before it is introduced to the wider world WHEN the opportunity presents itself.

We didn't team up with Russia for the same reason i.e we didn't want to antagonise the west especially since we were doing a lot of cyber coolie work ( still doing ) for them assuming the opportunity presented itself in the early 2000s.

Thanks for the elaborate post. Makes it easier to understand.
 
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indianexpress.com

Fresh US-China trade war breaks over chips, ‘connecting economies’ like India could gain

IMF's First DMD Gita Gopinath had said that evidence suggests non-aligned countries (such as India) did not play an important role serving as connectors between rival blocs during the Cold War.
indianexpress.com indianexpress.com

China’s latest export ban comes after it partially restricted key material exports earlier this year by introducing licensing requirements for exporters. The Chinese Commerce Ministry announced these measures in response to the US expanding its export control list targeting Chinese tech firms

1733320047222.webp
 
(This is first of my three parts essay on technology today)

Technology and Its Impact on Our Lives

In simple terms, technology is the discovery of new ways to simplify our lives or to perform tasks more efficiently than ever before. Technological innovations have made our lives easier, more productive, and more interconnected. Computers, in particular, have played a pivotal role in driving continuous innovation since the first analog systems were developed in the last century. Today, the power of what once required a room-sized computer is now available in handheld devices like smartphones.

The future of technology becomes even more fascinating with the emergence of new advancements. One of the most significant trends today is Artificial Intelligence (AI)—a field that enables machines to perform tasks typically requiring human intelligence. These tasks include problem-solving, decision-making, understanding and translating language, analyzing data, and making recommendations.

For instance, consider the use of AI in a hospital setting. A group of doctors might diagnose a patient, and then AI systems are used to provide a second opinion. In many cases, AI diagnoses match the accuracy of human experts. Other everyday applications of AI include self-driving cars, voice recognition, biometric identification, and much more. While AI is still evolving, it’s only a matter of time before it becomes an integral part of daily life.

In last two years, Generative artificial intelligence (generative AI, GenAI or GAI) which is a subset of artificial intelligence has taken over. It uses generative models to produce text, images, videos, or other forms of data. It is up and coming technology.

More Technology:

Let’s also explore the realm of interconnected computers and servers. The advent of the internet marked the beginning, followed by breakthroughs in communication technologies. Today, we are in the era of Cloud Computing, which allows users to access resources globally on demand and pay as they go. This revolution in computing has redefined how services and resources are delivered over the internet.

Other examples of technological leaps include robotics, which has transformed manufacturing and scientific research, as well as innovations in cryptocurrency, quantum computing, and cybersecurity.

All these advancements have been made possible by the rapid evolution of the backbone of modern technology: the computer chip. This remarkable piece of engineering has consistently pushed the boundaries of what technology can achieve.

What is a Computer Chip?

A computer chip is a tiny wafer of silicon, a semiconducting material embedded with millions of electronic circuits, such as transistors, that transmit electrical signals. The evolution of computer chips began in 1968, when a silicon wafer could accommodate hundreds of circuits, each measuring around 20 micrometers. By 1990, advancements in technology had reduced the size of these circuits to 600 nanometers, significantly increasing the number that could fit on a single wafer. Today, it is the high band-width memory chips which are in great demand.

The Intel and chip industry:

The progress didn’t stop there. The development of 28-nanometer circuits marked another milestone, and today, cutting-edge chips feature circuits as small as 2 to 5 nanometers. These advancements allow modern chips to accommodate millions—if not billions—of circuits, revolutionizing computing power and efficiency.

The microchip, a groundbreaking invention in technology, was pioneered by Jack Kilby and Robert Noyce in the United States. Robert Noyce, along with Gordon Moore, later founded Intel in 1968, where they developed the microprocessor—a revolutionary invention that laid the foundation for today’s global chip industry.

While Americans have mastered the science of chip design, Taiwanese and South Korean manufacturers have become leaders in the art of chip fabrication, driving innovation and production in the industry.

(To be continued).
 
Hari Sud said:
(This is first of my three parts essay on technology today)

Technology and Its Impact on Our Lives

In simple terms, technology is the discovery of new ways to simplify our lives or to perform tasks more efficiently than ever before. Technological innovations have made our lives easier, more productive, and more interconnected. Computers, in particular, have played a pivotal role in driving continuous innovation since the first analog systems were developed in the last century. Today, the power of what once required a room-sized computer is now available in handheld devices like smartphones.

The future of technology becomes even more fascinating with the emergence of new advancements. One of the most significant trends today is Artificial Intelligence (AI)—a field that enables machines to perform tasks typically requiring human intelligence. These tasks include problem-solving, decision-making, understanding and translating language, analyzing data, and making recommendations.

For instance, consider the use of AI in a hospital setting. A group of doctors might diagnose a patient, and then AI systems are used to provide a second opinion. In many cases, AI diagnoses match the accuracy of human experts. Other everyday applications of AI include self-driving cars, voice recognition, biometric identification, and much more. While AI is still evolving, it’s only a matter of time before it becomes an integral part of daily life.

In last two years, Generative artificial intelligence (generative AI, GenAI or GAI) which is a subset of artificial intelligence has taken over. It uses generative models to produce text, images, videos, or other forms of data. It is up and coming technology.

More Technology:

Let’s also explore the realm of interconnected computers and servers. The advent of the internet marked the beginning, followed by breakthroughs in communication technologies. Today, we are in the era of Cloud Computing, which allows users to access resources globally on demand and pay as they go. This revolution in computing has redefined how services and resources are delivered over the internet.

Other examples of technological leaps include robotics, which has transformed manufacturing and scientific research, as well as innovations in cryptocurrency, quantum computing, and cybersecurity.

All these advancements have been made possible by the rapid evolution of the backbone of modern technology: the computer chip. This remarkable piece of engineering has consistently pushed the boundaries of what technology can achieve.

What is a Computer Chip?

A computer chip is a tiny wafer of silicon, a semiconducting material embedded with millions of electronic circuits, such as transistors, that transmit electrical signals. The evolution of computer chips began in 1968, when a silicon wafer could accommodate hundreds of circuits, each measuring around 20 micrometers. By 1990, advancements in technology had reduced the size of these circuits to 600 nanometers, significantly increasing the number that could fit on a single wafer. Today, it is the high band-width memory chips which are in great demand.

The Intel and chip industry:

The progress didn’t stop there. The development of 28-nanometer circuits marked another milestone, and today, cutting-edge chips feature circuits as small as 2 to 5 nanometers. These advancements allow modern chips to accommodate millions—if not billions—of circuits, revolutionizing computing power and efficiency.

The microchip, a groundbreaking invention in technology, was pioneered by Jack Kilby and Robert Noyce in the United States. Robert Noyce, along with Gordon Moore, later founded Intel in 1968, where they developed the microprocessor—a revolutionary invention that laid the foundation for today’s global chip industry.

While Americans have mastered the science of chip design, Taiwanese and South Korean manufacturers have become leaders in the art of chip fabrication, driving innovation and production in the industry.

(To be continued).
Click to expand...

Great article! Keep it coming!
 
Azaad said:
Grand total of what you're saying can be summarised as GoI not only has to finance this undertaking it has to actively promote it which means being predatory about it eliminating competition i.e making it mandatory for all IT devices like PCs , tablets , Laptops , phones etc to EXCLUSIVELY carry this MII OS much like the Chinese who could afford to do so as they didn't have a lucrative IT services industry unlike us.

And we can't do it is coz if we tried the US will come down on us like a ton of bricks. However that still doesn't answer my question of why can't select government services like defence , R&D labs , etc EXCLUSIVELY access this OS wherein it's perfected within a closed group who're also its users before it is introduced to the wider world WHEN the opportunity presents itself.

We didn't team up with Russia for the same reason i.e we didn't want to antagonise the west especially since we were doing a lot of cyber coolie work ( still doing ) for them assuming the opportunity presented itself in the early 2000s.

Thanks for the elaborate post. Makes it easier to understand.
Click to expand...
No worries - I understand your question, I have torn my hair over it many times in the past - trying to get an answer why "IT power house" country resembles more like IT Labour chowk.
 
Azaad said:
However that still doesn't answer my question of why can't select government services like defence , R&D labs , etc EXCLUSIVELY access this OS wherein it's perfected within a closed group who're also its users before it is introduced to the wider world WHEN the opportunity presents itself.
Click to expand...
Azaad forgot to reply to this question. The only closed space right now you can or govt can force indigenous OS is as Mobile operating system in - - - Defense orgs (Army and various Defense entities). Because Mobile is one thing where no critical day to day official tasks are done other than communicating and chatting. And these two are basic thing which can be targeted to work at get Go. Later own build your own App Market place for defence - and bring in Indian Vendors to develop apps for them. We have our own 5g chipset and 5g stack. Use them exclusively in Armed forces Network to work in Cantonments. This is something Govt shall have to put to its foot down - so that Uber like MoU - stupidity should not have any chance to happen without Govt Overseeing Mechanism.

For PC OS's - You cant really force Defence Orgs to have them in every day to day activity - simply because some of the paid tools they are working with could be tied with specific OS's.

Building OS right is huge task but is just 1% of operationalizing it. Building and porting complete app ecosystem - with ability get regular updates + thriving App availability foreseeable future is rest of 99% .

Windowz Mobile 7, Blackerry 10 and Meego, Ubuntu Mobile Linux - all are well developed infact brought in unqiue features which are now licensed or copied into market favorite OS flavors. Yet could not survive - because of lack of apps. Microsoft poured in billions and lot of years yet could not make it success.

So for your homegrown Mobile OS to survive and thrive you need closed market. In China case - they had liberty of experimenting with whole country - which they did for last 20 years. Now they are reaping fruits.

In India's case - you cant really create whole closed market because our GDP is excessively dependent on outsourcing IT services business. The only place they can force is your Defence dept and that too in Mobility space first.
 
Artificial Intelligence and 2/5 nm Chipsets: Shaping the Future

(Technology Part - 2)

The unstoppable advance of artificial intelligence (AI) is reshaping the landscape, creating new winners while heralding the end of the old order. A newer, more fascinating world is beginning to unfold.

Over the past decade, we have witnessed the meteoric rise of AI as a transformative force in computing. Personally, I’m a fan of ChatGPT, a tool that has evolved into a practical and powerful application of AI. It performs exceptionally well on my Apple hardware, showcasing how far AI integration has come.

However, for further advancements across the AI spectrum, the availability of sufficiently large datasets and enhanced hardware will be essential. Progress in chipset design and processing capabilities remains the cornerstone of this future, unlocking the full potential of AI and making its applications even more impactful.

Let’s start with hardware: Today’s computational needs revolve around the design of increasingly advanced chips, crucial for both artificial intelligence (AI) and cloud computing. Leading the charge is Nvidia, a company at the forefront of this revolution. Nvidia’s specialized chipsets, designed for AI applications, have propelled its profits by 760% in a year, with its market cap surpassing $2 trillion. Originally built for graphics processing units (GPUs) to render images for video games etc., Nvidia’s GPUs have proven ideal for complex computations that regular CPUs can’t handle, making them energy-efficient and indispensable for AI tasks.

While competitors like AMD and Intel are closing the gap, Nvidia remains ahead, though the race is far from over. Although Intel is short on cash and talent today, hence they are having difficulty innovating yet sooner than later that gap will be plugged.

Next 2nm/5nm Chipset is already here, the next phase is to go into the unknown phase where chipset will be made more efficient, consume less energy and give price advantage to replace the existing legacy systems. That evolution is only a year or two away.

The second driver of this computational leap is software, spearheaded by Silicon Valley’s OpenAI. Recognizing AI’s transformative potential, companies like OpenAI and its derivative GenAI have developed tools for analysis, decision-making, and problem-solving etc. Generative AI, once science fiction, is now a reality, enabling everything from specific tasks to end-to-end processes. However, such advancements require massive datasets and enormous computing power, made possible by today’s cutting-edge chips—like the 5nm chips or already designed and built 2nm chips, which we will see sooner than later in our smartphones. The latter has put the power of a supercomputer in our hands.

The third driver is ‘compute power centres’, or data centres, which form the backbone of the AI revolution. These centres must scale rapidly to meet the demands of AI and Generative AI. Ten years ago, a 30MW center sufficed; today, 200MW centers are the norm. In 2024 alone, 78 large data centers are under construction in the U.S., costing $9 billion. These centers consume vast amounts of power and water for cooling, hence often located near surplus energy supplies or new power plants. These centres inter-connected are also powering the growth of cloud computing.

Unleashing the full potential of AI and Generative AI hinges on advancements in chipset design, data center infrastructure, and supporting hardware—a challenge and opportunity that is reshaping the tech world.

(To be continued)
 
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