Failed Terrorist State of Pakistan: Idiotic Musings

[Nibbler]

What makes you think if the Chinese are building them 8 submarines with a BM launch capacity in some of them they won't give them an adequate reach BM or CM to go with it ?

Besides why do you think they're going in for a massive expansion of the PN for what with all those frigates corvettes destroyers etc they're getting from around the world? It's to create & protect their "bastion ," that's why.

Ideally they'd have preferred it to be in Gwadar when the PLAN comes to base there which could still be the case next decade .

hangor doesn't have BM launch capacity

cruise missles are always going to be limited in terms of payload they can carry.

what function does a little 5kt nuke on a 400km range cruise missle serve on a submarine?

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

People here are uninformed maybe... all the 8 subs are not the same... it's 2 different models... 4 each... & 4 of them indeed have SLBM capability. Here's the source:

Pakistan Navy's Project S-26/Type 032 Qing-Class & Project S-30/Type 032 Qing-Class Submarines

China’s R & D programme to develop the double-hulled Project S-26/Type 032 Qing-class and Project S-30/Type 032 Qing-class SSK submarine...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

 

[Nibbler]

People here are uninformed maybe... all the 8 subs are not the same... it's 2 different models... 4 each... & 4 of them indeed have SLBM capability. Here's the source:

Pakistan Navy's Project S-26/Type 032 Qing-Class & Project S-30/Type 032 Qing-Class Submarines

China’s R & D programme to develop the double-hulled Project S-26/Type 032 Qing-class and Project S-30/Type 032 Qing-class SSK submarine...

trishul-trident.blogspot.com

er i thought hangor was a yuan class submarine.

these look to be a much bigger sub, this is a pretty old article too how accurate is it

 

[Yuyutsu]

It seems like folks are missing a key point here. If China has tech that India already possesses, you can bet they'll share it with porks . Whether it's east or west we're really just gearing up to face off against Chinese war machines. Sure, they might keep some of their top-tier tech to themselves, but they'll definitely hand over the less impressive stuff to their dogs.

Take their 5th gen fighters, for example. So, anyone in India thinking we can just outdo Pakistan's weapons and win war is seriously mistaken. We need to either surpass or at least keep up with Chinese tech and weaponry to win war at any end.

 

[Azaad]

hangor doesn't have BM launch capacity

cruise missles are always going to be limited in terms of payload they can carry.

what function does a little 5kt nuke on a 400km range cruise missle serve on a submarine?

That's what I'm asking - how can you be so sure the Hangor class isn't built to accomodate CMs with a larger reach ?

The Israelis have done it with similar capacity submarines. The Chinese have not & will not take too kindly to our second strike capabilities. You can be sure they'd help the Paxtanis get a better class of CMs if not BMs whether land or sea launched , preferably SLCMs for a second strike capability.

Besides the Babur - III missile you're referring to already exists on their Agosta class submarines with a range of 900 kms as per their own sources.

 

[Nibbler]

That's what I'm asking - how can you be so sure the Hangor class isn't built to accomodate CMs with a larger reach ?

The Israelis have done it with similar capacity submarines. The Chinese have not & will not take too kindly to our second strike capabilities. You can be sure they'd help the Paxtanis get a better class of CMs if not BMs whether land or sea launched , preferably SLCMs for a second strike capability.

Besides the Babur - III missile you're referring to already exists on their Agosta class submarines with a range of 900 kms as per their own sources.

i thought 900km is the land launched variant. surely popping out of a torpedo tube underwater has some tradeoffs.

same with range/payload. theres got to be tradeoffs there. second strike as a concept needs to be a credible countervalue threat. idk how little tactical nuke sized warheads offer that.

1st strikes are meant to destroy the opponents strategic nukes/command and control/airfields/ports etc

a credible second strike would be that if you did that the opponent could destroy your cities. the size matters, cause you would sitll retain the ability to wipe their population centres off the map after first strike.

will they be willing to lose lahore/karachi in exchange of tossing 5kt cruise missles at mumbai

 

[Azaad]

i thought 900km is the land launched variant. surely popping out of a torpedo tube underwater has some tradeoffs.

same with range/payload. theres got to be tradeoffs there. second strike as a concept needs to be a credible countervalue threat. idk how little tactical nuke sized warheads offer that.

1st strikes are meant to destroy the opponents strategic nukes/command and control/airfields/ports etc

a credible second strike would be that if you did that the opponent could destroy your cities. the size matters, cause you would sitll retain the ability to wipe their population centres off the map after first strike.

will they be willing to lose lahore/karachi in exchange of tossing 5kt cruise missles at mumbai

Which is the reason I'm of the opinion those submarines they're getting from China will have the ability to launch BM in at least some of them.

In any case their primary & secondary strike weapons are land based. This is more of a deep seated need of theirs to seek parity with us.

Having said that , the destruction caused by a SLCM launched at say Reliance Jamnagar can't be underestimated. That there is the world's biggest oil refinery going up in smoke.

 

[Nibbler]

Which is the reason I'm of the opinion those submarines they're getting from China will have the ability to launch BM in at least some of them.

In any case their primary & secondary strike weapons are land based. This is more of a deep seated need of theirs to seek parity with us.

Having said that , the destruction caused by a SLCM launched at say Reliance Jamnagar can't be underestimated. That there is the world's biggest oil refinery going up in smoke.

Well, if we were to engage in a first strike I would think that intelligence on where these subs are woould be part of the planning. Which is why a SSBN is key to a credible secon strike. They can stay submerged for so long and can be anywhere. The submerged range for a stirling AIP sub the size of the yuan is like 2000km i believe. It will be less for some jumbo version that can launch BM. Draw a radius from karachi thats 1000km and you see that the area that needs to be looked at is not that large (relatively). The have to popup enough that you can somewhat put a picture together surely.

This is all theoretical for now. I think for india to be able to pull off a first strike you would have to see the warhead numbers go up (i hope after the breeder reactor goes online). More surveilenc satelites (which i think is happening).

If the opportunity ever does present itself though, I hope there is someone with the balls to push that button around.

Fuck pakistan

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Kis book mein likha hai... that 2nd strike should be able to reach all parts of India... prominent cities of Gujarat, Mumbai, Pune, Thane, Bengaluru, all of kerala are within 300km of coastline(same for Chennai, vishakhapatnam etc. on eastern coast)... add 300km more standoff range... a 600km sub launched nuke armed cruise missile does the job.

That said... Pakis are getting 4x nuke SLBM armed conventional subs... the SLBM probably being JL-1.