Global 6th Generation Fighter Aircraft Projects

[VictorDelta4]

Wonder what they'll say now.

Its unlikely that those are canards. I would wager on LEX.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

I don't think people understand just how big this news is. This is a tsunami-supernova-earthquake all rolled into one for the Military Industrial Complex and the world.

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• New player in the US stealth aircraft game

When Lockheed Martin won the contract for the F 35 in 2001, they knew they had a $1 trillion deal to supply the F 35A (F16/F15 replacement), F 35B (Harrier replacement) and the F 35C (F 14/F 18 replacement). Lockheed Martin was already the leading contractor for the development of the F 22A while Boeing was the secondary.

Northrop Grumman in 2015 won the contract for the B 21 Raider and had previously made the B 2 stealth bomber.

Boeing so far has never been the prime contractor for any US stealth aircraft and this deal has opened the doors to atleast a $20 billion contract, possibly $1 trillion+ in the coming decades.

• Boeing has a guardian angel in the oval office :

The Biden regime went hammer and tongs after Boeing and their issues with the KC 46A refueling aircraft. Orders for the F 18 Super Hornet had dried up and the new F 15EX was chugging along very slowly with little chance of export orders.

Trump has always favored Boeing over Lockheed Martin. He pushed the F 15EX onto the Pentagon in 2018 despite their preference for more F 35s and kept alive the F 18 Super Hornet production line much longer than it's sell by date.

Boeing also won the $3.9 billion contract for 2 new Air Force One planes in 2018 in addition to the T-7 Red Hawk trainer in the same year. F 47 by POTUS 47 has a nice ring to it.

• Smaller lighter NGAD (F 35 class) is out :

View attachment 28064

I had previously speculated in November 2024 that the NGAD winner would be Lockheed Martin based on some renders by Skunk Works and some statements by the previous/lameduck US Secretary of the Air Force Frank Kendall favoring a smaller cheaper aircraft.

With the announcement of Boeing's selection, this idea appears to have been dropped for good given that the F 35 is very much in active production and may even be produced until the 2040s.

• China is the new Soviet Union for the US

The smaller NGAD that was previously envisioned was primarily designed for European (read Russian) theatres of war. However Russia seems to be moving towards a cold peace with US as per a ceasefire deal with Ukraine under the works.

The bigger NGAD was designed purely for a Pacific war and with the appearance of the J 36A, designed for long range/ stand off air superiority roles, this has become the favored choice.

Which emerging superpower lies in the Pacific? I don't think the answer is Japan.

• Indian F 35 purchase

With multiple countries pulling out of prospective F 35 deals and looking forward to FCAS/GCAP and the US itself moving onto the F 47, it seems increasingly likely that India could go in for a limited 36-40 F 35A deal to counterbalance a prospective Pakistani purchase of the J 31/J 35A.

The US has a tendency to give India Tier 2 military equipment to maintain production lines and push for some level of concurrency.

Trump pushing for India and promising all waivers to buy the F 35 in February 2025 and then announcing the F 47 in March 2025 shows that the timeline aligning in that respect.

Additionally, the US might show slight leniency towards the GE414 deal to allow India to equip it's AMCA and Tejas MK2 aircraft in the same way it allows Turkey (KAAN, GE F110), Japan (F-2/F-X, GE F110), South Korea (KF 21, GE F414) and Taiwan (F-CK-1, F125-GA-100) to use it's proprietary engines.

• Boeing's future is secure

Boeing has been facing a lot of turmoil due to quality and delivery issues of it's projects (KC 46A refuellers, Starliner, 737-MAX) and this had previously called into question it's long term health.

It's F 18 Super Hornet production line was ramping down and it was reduced to 12 F 15EX a year.

Boeing had prospectively been working on the NGAD/FA-XX projects to secure additional funding for it's military wing after being denied a morsel of the F 35 pie for over 2 decades. This order has given it a massive shot in the arm to go for the FA-XX.


View: https://x.com/AirPowerNEW1/status/1903032944547049777

• Design influences and prospective performance

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https://www.twz.com/air/boeing-wins-air-forces-next-generation-air-dominance-fighter-contract

• Northrop Grumman is the favorite for the FA-XX (US Navy)

https://www.tipranks.com/news/the-f...-for-navy-f-a-xx-award-after-lockheed-setback

> Like i said earlier, USA has been confusing entire world on NGAD. It currently looks like Bird-of-Prey + Boeing F/A-XX concept, rather than diamond/delta as speculated earlier. the confusion was created not by USG/USAF/USN but by private firms advertisements & 3D artists.

> The posters are heavily edited to hide rear half of airframe hiding wings, exhausts, intakes, etc. The wings could be diamond, delts, lambda, etc, optimised for speed/range or lift/payload. The wing tips could be drooped, perhaps movable.

> The size of internal weapons, sensors, fuel capacity decide the size & weight from which USA has never ever felt shy. They don't have to worry about proper engines bcoz they know money into R&D is the only way forward for self-reliance & supremacy in military & business. If a jet is made as modular as possible, for example with CFT (Conformal Fuel Tank) right from beginning then in bigger theater they can be retained & can be removed in shorter theater while still retaining stealth, agility, etc.

> With F-35, USA is regretting giving source-code to Israel for modifying. They say there is no kill switch but they can certainly monitor the health & sortie-data whatever the sensors picked up, which Israel blocked out completely. Hence our F-35 deal is also huge concern as it can leak RCS & IRS of all our air & surface assets.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

> Like i said earlier, USA has been confusing entire world on NGAD. It currently looks like Bird-of-Prey + Boeing F/A-XX concept, rather than diamond/delta as speculated earlier. the confusion was created not by USG/USAF/USN but by private firms advertisements & 3D artists.

> The posters are heavily edited to hide rear half of airframe hiding wings, exhausts, intakes, etc. The wings could be diamond, delts, lambda, etc, optimised for speed/range or lift/payload. The wing tips could be drooped, perhaps movable.

> The size of internal weapons, sensors, fuel capacity decide the size & weight from which USA has never ever felt shy. They don't have to worry about proper engines bcoz they know money into R&D is the only way forward for self-reliance & supremacy in military & business. If a jet is made as modular as possible, for example with CFT (Conformal Fuel Tank) right from beginning then in bigger theater they can be retained & can be removed in shorter theater while still retaining stealth, agility, etc.

> With F-35, USA is regretting giving source-code to Israel for modifying. They say there is no kill switch but they can certainly monitor the health & sortie-data whatever the sensors picked up, which Israel blocked out completely. Hence our F-35 deal is also huge concern as it can leak RCS & IRS of all our air & surface assets.

If you look at nose size, don't you think it can fit like 4000 TRMs?

 

[randombully]

If you look at nose size, don't you think it can fit like 4000 TRMs?

No.
2500-3000 trm.
Though they seem to going for more horizontal angle than vertical.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

If you look at nose size, don't you think it can fit like 4000 TRMs?

It is very difficult to say. But better stealth also means better emissions control, means more # of beams doing their individual tracks rather than a big beam.


Moreover 6gen also focusses on networked sensor fusion from AWACS, other air & ground assets, satellites, etc w/o revealing self position.

At this time, it is very difficult to estimate its size & compare with other jets. The cockpit canopy looks very big compared to entire nose, as if 2 pilots can sit side by side like speculated for J-36.




See how difficult it is to compare. where would you equalize - the tyres, canopy, entire fuselage, nose?

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

It is very difficult to say. But better stealth also means better emissions control, means more # of beams doing their individual tracks rather than a big beam.

View attachment 28112
Moreover 6gen also focusses on networked sensor fusion from AWACS, other air & ground assets, satellites, etc w/o revealing self position.

At this time, it is very difficult to estimate its size & compare with other jets. The cockpit canopy looks very big compared to entire nose, as if 2 pilots can sit side by side like speculated for J-36.

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See how difficult it is to compare. where would you equalize - the tyres, canopy, entire fuselage, nose?

Look at that tyre and equalize both. The Right looks smaller

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Look at that tyre and equalize both. The Right looks smaller

I did that 1st but it made F-22's cockpit very small.
The camera angle & distance need to match for proper approimation.
They have not revealed the dimensions of F-47. Let's wait for better images, diagrams.

 

[randombully]

I did that 1st but it made F-22's cockpit very small.
The camera angle & distance need to match for proper approimation.
They have not revealed the dimensions of F-47. Let's wait for better images, diagrams.

From what I know, f22's cockpit will be significantly small than f-47
From the released pics, the cockpit to rest of body ratio of f-47 is higher than f22. And f47 will not be smaller than tempest, most likely bigger, seeing the range and payload mentioned.
So Try to equalize the tires.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

From what I know, f22's cockpit will be significantly small than f-47
From the released pics, the cockpit to rest of body ratio of f-47 is higher than f22. And f47 will not be smaller than tempest, most likely bigger, seeing the range and payload mentioned.
So Try to equalize the tires.

F-35's cockpit is slightly more spacious than F-22's, more than that is not required unless you want Su-34 type cockpit.
The poster is heavily edited, incomplete & not appropriate to compare. If i equalize the tyres, when the cockpit size is resized then so does the pilot's dimension. It will look like a babyin F-22 cockpit Vs Sumo wrestler in F-47 cockpit

 

[randombully]

F-35's cockpit is slightly more spacious than F-22's, more than that is not required unless you want Su-34 type cockpit.
The poster is heavily edited, incomplete & not appropriate to compare. If i equalize the tyres, when the cockpit size is resized then so does the pilot's dimension. It will look like a babyin F-22 cockpit Vs Sumo wrestler in F-47 cockpit

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That thing is gonna be powered by 2 200kn class thrust VCE so total 400kn max thrust.
J36 with it's 3 engines is expected to have 425kN thrust.
So you can compare it's size to the massive j36, I think slighly smaller than j36.
But larger than even su34.
So not as ridiculous as it looks.
Here f22, vs su57 vs j20 and then j20 vs j36, sew the last pic.

 

[randombully]

Much better comparision

 

[randombully]

Well well well, we got some new pics of "allegedly" f47, or "one of the designs" of f47
@Bhartiya Sainik
This jet in this pic Looks pretty different from the one shown in oval office from the front.
But is a tailess delta canard

 

[helin]

Well well well, we got some new pics of "allegedly" f47, or "one of the designs" of f47
@Bhartiya Sainik
This jet in this pic Looks pretty different from the one shown in oval office from the front.
But is a tailess delta canard
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Make Canards Great Again

 

[randombully]

Make Canards Great Again

Pass this off to the Americans online, if you meet them.

 

[helin]

View attachment 28142
Pass this off to the Americans online, if you meet them.

View: https://x.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1903356970700263576

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

That thing is gonna be powered by 2 200kn class thrust VCE so total 400kn max thrust.
J36 with it's 3 engines is expected to have 425kN thrust.
So you can compare it's size to the massive j36, I think slighly smaller than j36.
But larger than even su34.
So not as ridiculous as it looks.
Here f22, vs su57 vs j20 and then j20 vs j36, sew the last pic.
View attachment 28129View attachment 28130View attachment 28131

J-36 & J-20 from side don't look too much apart in size. But the wing span of J-36 creates the size difference in top/bottom & front views.

Much better comparision View attachment 28132

No, we need F-22's front view from elevated angle, or F-47's view from ground.

Well well well, we got some new pics of "allegedly" f47, or "one of the designs" of f47
@Bhartiya Sainik
This jet in this pic Looks pretty different from the one shown in oval office from the front.
But is a tailess delta canard
View attachment 28135View attachment 28136View attachment 28137View attachment 28138

It is CG, not real factory.

All this intentional suspense automatically creates lots of publicity.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Looks like Boeing might be doing 6th gen for both USAF and USN.
View attachment 28063

No, as us navy is already dissatisfied with f35. As a air force platform can't meet all requirements. Us navy has there faxx program most likely northrop grumman will get t the deal. Secondly there is going to be commonality between avionics suit and electronic as it will bring down cost.

 

[randombully]

J-36 & J-20 from side don't look too much apart in size. But the wing span of J-36 creates the size difference in top/bottom & front views.



No, we need F-22's front view from elevated angle, or F-47's view from ground.




It is CG, not real factory.

All this intentional suspense automatically creates lots of publicity.

It's a digital cgi from Boeing.

 

[Kontakt5]

That thing is gonna be powered by 2 200kn class thrust VCE so total 400kn max thrust.
J36 with it's 3 engines is expected to have 425kN thrust.
So you can compare it's size to the massive j36, I think slighly smaller than j36.
But larger than even su34.
So not as ridiculous as it looks.
Here f22, vs su57 vs j20 and then j20 vs j36, sew the last pic.
View attachment 28129View attachment 28130View attachment 28131

Probably only the prototype J-36 uses WS-10C, if equipped with WS-15 engine for production or in the future China develops VCE engine for J-36, it could have 500kN+ . I think the F-47 will be much smaller in terms of volume than the J-36 but may appear similar in size. The F-47 seems very slim and the nose looks very flat, optimizing stealth and aerodynamics.