GTRE GTX 35VS Kaveri (11 Viewers)

[Savageking456]

Can someone suggest some good books on gas turbines

Gas turbine engineering handbook by Meherwan P boyce

 

[liberalredditor]

kde cad drawing

credit - @shreedharsingh9 from twitter

 

[liberalredditor]

High Temperature Materials for Gas Turbine Applications | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

The monograph discusses gas turbine materials (with emphasis on Ti-alloys and Ni-superalloys). The monograph begins with a historical perspective of turbine development and covers some basic principles of jet propulsion and material science. The main emphasis remains on the high temperature gas...

www.drdo.gov.in

anyone has the pdf?? this is a gem, need to read it.

 

[redpanda]

High Temperature Materials for Gas Turbine Applications | Defence Research and Development Organisation - DRDO, Ministry of Defence, Government of India

The monograph discusses gas turbine materials (with emphasis on Ti-alloys and Ni-superalloys). The monograph begins with a historical perspective of turbine development and covers some basic principles of jet propulsion and material science. The main emphasis remains on the high temperature gas...

www.drdo.gov.in

anyone has the pdf?? this is a gem, need to read it.

 

[Ajatshatru]

View: https://x.com/Manish_K_Jha1/status/1938865263296033183

kaveri toh lmao ded ho gya fr fr no cap

KDE dry is gonna happen at maximum

I don't think it's dead, may be used experience in another project.

Remember given after burner project to bhrahmos jv team.

Tbh there are problem with Kaveri's design itself. And even with afterburner and new materials. They won't be able to reach necessary thrust to weight ratio. So, ig they decided to abandon it in favour of a new project. Kaveri became KDE that's it. So technically not dead. Partial success you could say because KDE will power Ghatak.

i still believe that if we pursue the project properly, kaveri can be integrated with the 97 tejas mk1a or atleast 2/3rd ie the last 60 mk1a

but the reason to lmao ded it might be to shift the entire workforce to amca engine development, idk what was the reason to kill it, but i hope we can get the next gen engine in 8-9 years

Are dukh kyun ho rahe? KDE is still there. This is how R&D goes. You should be glad we learnt something from it and it finally became useful for something. Atleast this R&D went into something. Future of KDE is bright because it exceeds thrust requirements. All they have to do is reduce weight.

Yes. Full credit to DRDO & GTRE for keeping the project alive thru internal funding & for incremental development of various technologies not fully realised on the Kaveri respectively after BA in History / Eng Lit ( Hons ) from St Stephens / JNU babooos in MoD / MoF cut off funding.

Ironically this was done in MP's tenure as Raksha Mantri IIRC. Whatever may be the case it was a monumental blunder on par with whatever we did with the Marut project.

dukhi isliye hun kyunki agar hum kaveri par all in bet karte to maybe 41st tejas se hi kaveri aa jata with full 85kn thrust, we have always let the bus leave, we never missed the bus, we as a country are banana republic

and full respect to drdo people and gtre who somehow continued to research on kaveri and turbofans, atleast we had hopes, which meant we believed them, they redesigned almost every part, from turbine entry fan blades to blisks to bypass ducts to new afterburner

again an ignored and forgotten warrior for kde was dmrl, they have the work to work n superalloys and single crystals, they worked on it in really good way, if given proper funding, work could have been accelerated

kaveri was a really good journey, although didnt finish on a high note on how we wanted, but its daughter kde will fulfil the dreams with ghatak

now all i want to see is amca engine on amca mk2 with full mass production by 2035-36

Kaveri engine program can now be considered a success, as India has developed a dry variant suitable for powering drones. This opens up the possibility of developing a B-2 Spirit-style stealth bomber powered by four dry Kaveri engines. The B-2 itself is powered by four F118 dry engines, each with a thrust of 77 kN, but India wouldn’t require that level of range for missions targeting Pakistani nuclear weapon storage bunkers with bunker-buster bombs. Once the Ghatak drone begins flight tests with the Kaveri engine, I’m confident DRDO will eventually propose a larger drone platform powered by two or even four dry Kaveri engines.

 

[TopWatcher]

Kaveri engine program can now be considered a success, as India has developed a dry variant suitable for powering drones. This opens up the possibility of developing a B-2 Spirit-style stealth bomber powered by four dry Kaveri engines. The B-2 itself is powered by four F118 dry engines, each with a thrust of 77 kN, but India wouldn’t require that level of range for missions targeting Pakistani nuclear weapon storage bunkers with bunker-buster bombs. Once the Ghatak drone begins flight tests with the Kaveri engine, I’m confident DRDO will eventually propose a larger drone platform powered by two or even four dry Kaveri engines.

It's really breakthrough, if it's happened than we can gradually move to jet engine for fighter aircraft.

But if we sum up all our hope sukoi30 mki, better make it in large numbers with latest upgrads.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Too frustrating this govt has spend zilch on testing infra and R&D for propulsion systems. Even HTFE-25 is stuck and won't become ready without similar trials in Russia.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1942092165531992250

 

[TopWatcher]

Too frustrating this govt has spend zilch on testing infra and R&D for propulsion systems. Even HTFE-25 is stuck and won't become ready without similar trials in Russia.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1942092165531992250

Ab umeed bhi naumeed lag rahe hai.

 

[redpanda]

Too frustrating this govt has spend zilch on testing infra and R&D for propulsion systems. Even HTFE-25 is stuck and won't become ready without similar trials in Russia.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1942092165531992250

FTB has mostly been a case of lack of understanding between GTRE, MoD and IAF. MoD has failed to pursue IAF to give their aircraft to GTRE for FTB. They don't need to spend much for it. Money isn't the issue here, it's the incompetency of MoD to establish a proper collaborative environment between each department. Dhotidhari mahoday ke saath saath suit boot dhari babus in MoD iske liye jimmedar hain. Politicians can be replaced, not MoD babus (atleast in short term). Just look at the attitude of our current Def.Sec. I remember a few years back it was him I think who said "We don't need testing infrastructure, because we have partners who can do it cheaply for us." Basically he said "Jo Chal Raha hai Chalne do"

 

[sidmoh]

Excellent interview straight from the horse's mouth : GTRE Director
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypNsCvZluUc&t=1186s

 

[vicky]

Following an extensive consultation process, including detailed input from a technical committee that assessed all critical aspects of fighter jet engine manufacturing, the ministry concluded that French aerospace firm Safran offered the most beneficial terms. The recommendation is part of a ₹61,000 crore (7 billion $) initiative to co-develop a 120 kilonewton (kN) thrust engine, intended for future combat platforms such as the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLaWRAT_PF4

https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/india-france-fighter-engine-deal-safran-technology-transfer-125071800487_1.html

 

[Ajatshatru]

Following an extensive consultation process, including detailed input from a technical committee that assessed all critical aspects of fighter jet engine manufacturing, the ministry concluded that French aerospace firm Safran offered the most beneficial terms. The recommendation is part of a ₹61,000 crore initiative to co-develop a 120 kilonewton (kN) thrust engine, intended for future combat platforms such as the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLaWRAT_PF4

https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/india-france-fighter-engine-deal-safran-technology-transfer-125071800487_1.html

So finally, India and France will begin developing a fifth-generation fighter jet engine. I hope the project is completed within the next 10 years. In the meantime, the dry Kaveri engine should be put to good use—perhaps by building a dedicated stealth bomber powered by two or four of these engines.

 

[shade2]

So finally, India and France will begin developing a fifth-generation fighter jet engine. I hope the project is completed within the next 10 years. In the meantime, the dry Kaveri engine should be put to good use—perhaps by building a dedicated stealth bomber powered by two or four of these engines.

It's more like the French will subsidize the development of their 5th gen engine with our money while we get ghanta or the M88 core mated with Kaveri at best

The French have provided us a cow, milking it is our job.

 

[Interested]

It's more like the French will subsidize the development of their 5th gen engine with our money while we get ghanta or the M88 core mated with Kaveri at best

The French have provided us a cow, milking it is our job.

Instead of the French , not sure why they don't go to the Russians. Yes maybe their tech is not that great but they will share a lot more knowhow. I fear this is another blow to our own engine tech development .

 

[Warlock]

It's more like the French will subsidize the development of their 5th gen engine with our money while we get ghanta or the M88 core mated with Kaveri at best

The French have provided us a cow, milking it is our job.

I wouldn't be surprised if things will follow as below:
--- Few years Down the line, French will ask more Money due to inflation. If GE can do this, If Germany can do this in Submarine deal, so does French.
-----10 Years down the line India still looking for Engine. Just like MRFA and current GE engine Saga. "keep waiting"
----- In Between if coalition Govt. came in to power in India, French may be saying " What Engine". Congi itself will put money on hold.
---- Govt. is doing all this Just for Face saving. they themselves have no faith in Indigenous development.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Even after paying for ISE, 10 years down the line our Rafales can't use our own weapons and even Meteors aren't available. I'm pretty sure it will end up with an egg on our face but you can't convince the BJPigs to invest that much into our own programme. Retards invested just ₹2500 crore in Kaveri programme, including Kaveri Marine gas turbine, over a period of decades and still somehow our engineers managed to build it, even if they were not upto the mark.

But yeah throw ₹61000 crore thinking they will give eveything away for that, and you will suddenly be able to make all sorts of jet engines on your own so easily

Without a parallel program for our own jet engines fully D&D'd in India to absorb the technology and creating our own, this project would mean a similar situation as us license-making GE-F414 i.e. importing the most critical components even after 80% ToT (rest 20% is the most complex components) or the license-making of AL-31F and RD-33, even if we'll somehow hold the so-called IPR of the engine.

Even now these clowns are yet to sanction any money for FTB and other critical infra. HTFE-25 is stuck, while STFE Manik doesn't have much MTBO.

Our turboshaft engine programme is also stuck, and we've been making those French engines here under a joint venture, what exactly did we gain out of that when HTSE-1200 is still not done?

No point getting a 120KN engine but not the knowhow of designing and producing the most critical components and sections of a "5th gen" jet engine (or not being able to absordb it), you'll be back at square one.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Even after paying for ISE, 10 years down the line our Rafales can't use our own weapons and even Meteors aren't available. I'm pretty sure it will end up with an egg on our face but you can't convince the BJPigs to invest that much into our own programme. Retards invested just ₹2500 crore in Kaveri programme, including Kaveri Marine gas turbine, over a period of decades and still somehow our engineers managed to build it, even if they were not upto the mark.

But yeah throw ₹61000 crore thinking they will give eveything away for that, and you will suddenly be able to make all sorts of jet engines on your own so easily

Without a parallel program for our own jet engines fully D&D'd in India to absorb the technology and creating our own, this project would mean a similar situation as us license-making GE-F414 i.e. importing the most critical components even after 80% ToT (rest 20% is the most complex components) or the license-making of AL-31F and RD-33, even if we'll somehow hold the so-called IPR of the engine.

Even now these clowns are yet to sanction any money for FTB and other critical infra. HTFE-25 is stuck, while STFE Manik doesn't have much MTBO.

Our turboshaft engine programme is also stuck, and we've been making those French engines here under a joint venture, what exactly did we gain out of that when HTSE-1200 is still not done?

No point getting a 120KN engine but not the knowhow of designing and producing the most critical components and sections of a "5th gen" jet engine (or not being able to absordb it), you'll be back at square one.

The French collaboration is supposed to be an new engine Core. Same with the RR program. We are the money bags for them to develop this technology. On the other hand GTRE folks will work with them on understand the process.

To avoid rip off, it is better to initiate both RR & Safran programs. It put checks on French and British overplaying their hands like not allowing access to certain tech. It is pitting two bulls to ensure we earn something.

Single developer scenario have high chances of betrayal.

An working Turbofan will spin off everything from Turboshaft, High Bypass Turbofan, Marine Gas Turbine and Industrial Gas turbine.

 

[SKC]

I wouldn't be surprised if things will follow as below:
--- Few years Down the line, French will ask more Money due to inflation. If GE can do this, If Germany can do this in Submarine deal, so does French.
-----10 Years down the line India still looking for Engine. Just like MRFA and current GE engine Saga. "keep waiting"
----- In Between if coalition Govt. came in to power in India, French may be saying " What Engine". Congi itself will put money on hold.
---- Govt. is doing all this Just for Face saving. they themselves have no faith in Indigenous development.

Even after paying for ISE, 10 years down the line our Rafales can't use our own weapons and even Meteors aren't available. I'm pretty sure it will end up with an egg on our face but you can't convince the BJPigs to invest that much into our own programme. Retards invested just ₹2500 crore in Kaveri programme, including Kaveri Marine gas turbine, over a period of decades and still somehow our engineers managed to build it, even if they were not upto the mark.

But yeah throw ₹61000 crore thinking they will give eveything away for that, and you will suddenly be able to make all sorts of jet engines on your own so easily

Without a parallel program for our own jet engines fully D&D'd in India to absorb the technology and creating our own, this project would mean a similar situation as us license-making GE-F414 i.e. importing the most critical components even after 80% ToT (rest 20% is the most complex components) or the license-making of AL-31F and RD-33, even if we'll somehow hold the so-called IPR of the engine.

Even now these clowns are yet to sanction any money for FTB and other critical infra. HTFE-25 is stuck, while STFE Manik doesn't have much MTBO.

Our turboshaft engine programme is also stuck, and we've been making those French engines here under a joint venture, what exactly did we gain out of that when HTSE-1200 is still not done?

No point getting a 120KN engine but not the knowhow of designing and producing the most critical components and sections of a "5th gen" jet engine (or not being able to absordb it), you'll be back at square one.

The world basically operates on: "Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains" <-> ""Whoever holds the stick, owns the buffalo."

Do we really have any bargaining chip with us right now?

Your points sound good, but our own project hasn’t moved forward. It’s better to accept help when it’s easily available than to keep struggling for years without getting anywhere."​

 

[FalconSlayers]

The world basically operated on: "Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains" <-> ""Whoever holds the stick, owns the buffalo."

Do we really have any bargaining chip with us right now?

Your points sound good, but our own project hasn’t moved forward. It’s better to accept help when it’s easily available than to keep struggling for years without getting anywhere."​

That is true, but did we even try? Chinese have spent upwards of $30 bn on their gas turbine programmes, and will spend a lot more to gain further dominance and make up for poor MTBO and MTBF right now to improved ones in future. We've spend $300 million over a period of decades. We're not self-reliant on gas turbines by our own choice.

I am not saying we shouldn't go forward with them, what I am saying is run a parallel programme involving our heavy engineering and aerospace firms with it to make our own equivalents, so that we can absorb the know-how and know-why, and ToT to the fullest extent. If I hypothetically had money, and the ability to acquire GE F414 IPR, I could acquire it's IPR and sole manufacturing rights, but what I could've done with that IPR when I can't even make a screw for it? You get the point.

 

[SKC]

That is true, but did we even try? Chinese have spent upwards of $30 bn on their gas turbine programmes, and will spend a lot more to gain further dominance and make up for poor MTBO and MTBF right now to improved ones in future. We've spend $300 million over a period of decades. We're not self-reliant on gas turbines by our own choice.

I am not saying we shouldn't go forward with them, what I am saying is run a parallel programme involving our heavy engineering and aerospace firms with it to make our own equivalents, so that we can absorb the know-how and know-why, and ToT to the fullest extent. If I hypothetically had money, and the ability to acquire GE F414 IPR, I could acquire it's IPR and sole manufacturing rights, but what I could've done with that IPR when I can't even make a screw for it? You get the point.

We will always be stuck with -> run our parallel programs! We have been doing that and invest whatever we could.
China spent $30B because they could and We spent $300 M again because that's what we could.​