Indian Army Artillery Programme

[mist_consecutive]

Even mgs ,atags and other howitzer are also awaiting orders
Thanks to ia leadership and mars trial

We ordered some odd ~100 dhanush and not even half of them are delivered in last 4 years.

 

[username unkown]

We ordered some odd ~100 dhanush and not even half of them are delivered in last 4 years.

Dhanush isn't atags completely diff thing
Kuch mahine pahle dainik Bhaskar me news chhapi thi ki dhanush k liye israel critical component supply nahi kar raha hai gaza ki wajah se to dhanush bas athos hi hai bas screwdrivered
Atags k order armenia k pure bhi ho gaye or armenia or order kar sakta hai
Meanwhile army is still 'testing' it


Indigenous weapons are tested in hell and mars but it seems imported/ screwdrivered aren't tested at all

Dhristi drone failed still inducted

 

[ezsasa]

poland signed deal in 2022 and got 256 delivered by this year. India first signed in 2016 and we have 100 in inventory and other new 100 will take another 1-2 years.
so 256 to poland in 2 -3 years and 200 to india in 10 years. this is our seriousness.

how much indigenous component in content and work order execution did first polish deal for K9 have?

 

[mist_consecutive]

Dhanush isn't atags completely diff thing
Kuch mahine pahle dainik Bhaskar me news chhapi thi ki dhanush k liye israel critical component supply nahi kar raha hai gaza ki wajah se to dhanush bas athos hi hai bas screwdrivered

Aree I thought Dhanush is completely indigenous replacement of Bofors. Ab isme Israeli component kaha se aa gaya ? (Original SAAB FH777 Bofors is Swedish, not even Israeli).

Dhanush is not Athos screwdrivergiri my brother.

Atags k order armenia k pure bhi ho gaye or armenia or order kar sakta hai
Meanwhile army is still 'testing' it
Indigenous weapons are tested in hell and mars but it seems imported/ screwdrivered aren't tested at all

I am not trying to make it a Army vs. PSU argument. I was just highlighting another "delay" just like you mentioned ATAGS.

Dhristi drone failed still inducted

Dristi will be acquired by Navy & IAF. EoI has been issued.

 

[username unkown]

Aree I thought Dhanush is completely indigenous replacement of Bofors. Ab isme Israeli component kaha se aa gaya ? (Original SAAB FH777 Bofors is Swedish, not even Israeli).

Dhanush is not Athos screwdrivergiri my brother

From what I see in dainik bhaskar delay in dhanush was due to delay in critical component of israeli origin and they were trying to replace those
What my main point is dhanush might be decent but with so many issue in production not good choice considering
Atags is best in range and performance and no issues
I want to ask everyone here a genuine we question if american or our adversy had equipment like atags best in world in performance what do you think they would have done mass production or mars trials

My English is trashy i know and sorry but I am just deeply frustrated with atags saga

 

[mist_consecutive]

From what I see in dainik bhaskar delay in dhanush was due to delay in critical component of israeli origin and they were trying to replace those

Blame completely lies on designing organization (OFB) who used Israeli component instead sourcing it from local industry.

What my main point is dhanush might be decent but with so many issue in production not good choice considering

Well honestly we didn't knew that till it started large-scale manufacturng.

Other points, I agree.

 

[username unkown]

Blame completely lies on designing organization (OFB) who used Israeli component instead sourcing it from local industry.

Design by ofb are next level just look at their ficv prototype
Whatever they try to do they somehow end up messing up big time from their ammunition to sniper rifle to armoured veichle

 

[ezsasa]

I want to ask everyone here a genuine we question if american or our adversy had equipment like atags best in world in performance what do you think they would have done mass production or mars trials

there is no such thing as best in world, what matters is whether the equipment is fulfilling IA's GSQR. as an user IA has every right to seek iterative improvement in the equipment .

since murica is mentioned.

take M777 for example, it's development started in 1984 and order given in 2004(20 years). even after 2004, there were iterations made, that's how M777A2 came about. they haven't stopped there, now they are focussing on increasing the range .it was originally a british designed gun.

ATAGS designed started in 2016, trials completed in 2022, order given in 2024.

be it K9 or ATAGS or dhanush, we have to take into account that MoD is not just interested in acquisitions to boost numbers, they also have a mandate to develop domestic component ecosystem. because last time when India was under sanctions the russians squeezed MoD and forces a lot even for simple modifications on tanks and other equipment.

if the focus was only on boosting numbers, we will get it and even at cheaper cost, because the vendors know that they can squeeze us later.

there is no such thing as a perfect solution, and it is a far more complex process being undertaken by our defence establishment.

10 years down the line, how do we know if this programme is a success or not?
by noticing that no one is talking about it because the process has stabilised, and fanboys would have moved on to some other topic to outrage on. same thing happened over couple of decades to trucks, radars, missiles and now even drones, in the world of desi defence enthusiasts.

 

[username unkown]

there is no such thing as best in world, what matters is whether the equipment is fulfilling IA's GSQR. as an user IA has every right to seek iterative improvement in the equipment .

IA is final user they do have right to seek improvement in equipment agreed
But isn't it also IA responsibly to not change goal post at end when product is ready ?
How many time have IA gernals have destroyed indigenous weapons in favor of import latest whap and stryker
Stryker is trash and rejected by us colony but IA wants it

And despite alot of problems in hermes or so called drishti drone how did it passed armed forces requirements (dalal)

since murica is mentioned.

take M777 for example, it's development started in 1984 and order given in 2004(20 years). even after 2004, there were iterations made, that's how M777A2 came about. they haven't stopped there, now they are focussing on increasing the range .it was originally a british designed gun.

ATAGS designed started in 2016, trials completed in 2022, order given in 2024.

Only downside with atags is its weight which is solved by mgs and mount it on arjuns hull or zorawar hull weight problem is solved now what problem is there with atags not much just that it doesn't come with malai fir dalal
I also mention china and
American in threat of 2 front war would have mass produced any artillery gun if they didn't had decent numbers china is already doing it just that army is waiting it to be outdated and then they will import it

be it K9 or ATAGS or dhanush, we have to take into account that MoD is not just interested in acquisitions to boost numbers, they also have a mandate to develop domestic component ecosystem. because last time when India was under sanctions the russians squeezed MoD and forces a lot even for simple modifications on tanks and other equipment.

Russian used us as cash cow in fgfa than aircraft carrier and in sanction as you said and then in 2020 india in tough situation wants weapons again what does israel , us and Russian does they sell us shit in 2x , 3x cost after getting scam multiple times what does leadership learns nothing
They still want to pay billions for AK with pictanry rails

 

[ezsasa]

IA is final user they do have right to seek improvement in equipment agreed
But isn't it also IA responsibly to not change goal post at end when product is ready ?
How many time have IA gernals have destroyed indigenous weapons in favor of import latest whap and stryker
Stryker is trash and rejected by us colony but IA wants it

And despite alot of problems in hermes or so called drishti drone how did it passed armed forces requirements (dalal)

Only downside with atags is its weight which is solved by mgs and mount it on arjuns hull or zorawar hull weight problem is solved now what problem is there with atags not much just that it doesn't come with malai fir dalal
I also mention china and
American in threat of 2 front war would have mass produced any artillery gun if they didn't had decent numbers china is already doing it just that army is waiting it to be outdated and then they will import it

Russian used us as cash cow in fgfa than aircraft carrier and in sanction as you said and then in 2020 india in tough situation wants weapons again what does israel , us and Russian does they sell us shit in 2x , 3x cost after getting scam multiple times what does leadership learns nothing
They still want to pay billions for AK with pictanry rails

sure there are issues, all complex processes do. untying the knots one by one is what is supposed to happen and is happening. in the previous forum, we all were complaining a lot of things that we take for granted now.

IA too is trying to adjust to new realities as well, that GoI wants to transform Indian defence industry from a buyer to a seller. meaning sections with IA has to shift their mindset from being a user to a stakeholder, i can tell with first hand experience this is not a easy goal to achieve even in large private sector companies. self-reliance in defence as a gormint theme that has been going on atleast since rajeev gandhi's time.

we must also recognise, that in majority of the cases bad PR comes into play is when a foreign vendor is competing for a particular order. talking points are introduced in the discourse, to influence the procurement process. these are lobbies throwing muck at their competitor thru their agents, and fanboys take it too seriously.

S400 - murican lobby gets activated
stryker - russian and desi lobby gets activated
hermes - DPSU lobby gets activated
ATAGS - israeli lobby gets activated
etc etc.

do note, my replies are not intended to change your opinions. i am trying to expand the scope of time frames and information based on my observations. just in case, there are other inferences that can be drawn at a later point in time.