Indian Navy Developments & Discussions (6 Viewers)

[snakeeyes07]

ITT Defense bro sperging over "stealth cupola" when the biggest L of AK630 is it being centrally directed and not autonomous.
This is aside from the 30mm cannon itself being innaccurate
Meanwhile the Korean CIWS has it's own AESA radar and EO/IR camera for autonomous targeting


View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1944215372506575345


imo Admirals must focus on the shiny new method of CIWS going with a single barrel cannon with smart ammo, the US/UK use a Bofors L70 40mm gun like this onlee, the Germans have their 35mm oerlikon millenium gun.

However idk where will we get ToT for smart ammo, DRDO has made a timed fuze 30mm shell

Navy is working on smart (proximity fuse) 30mm for AK-630

 

[ArjunMK1A]

My thinking behind the post was that Kusha naval won't be available for next 3-5 years, if another class of 3-4 destroyers (iterative design of P15B) needs to be ordered soon so that it fills up the gap and keep shipyards occupied till P18s then Aegis is available now.

Thinking is fine. But what about Crores of Rupees Indian Tax payers paid for this projects only to see another crores of rupees spent to buy Foreign radars, SAMs. Mango People cannot be cheated for long time right. Sensible people will started to question, why are we wasting money on projects which is not even getting orders.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

ITT Defense bro sperging over "stealth cupola" when the biggest L of AK630 is it being centrally directed and not autonomous.
This is aside from the 30mm cannon itself being innaccurate
Meanwhile the Korean CIWS has it's own AESA radar and EO/IR camera for autonomous targeting


View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1944215372506575345


imo Admirals must focus on the shiny new method of CIWS going with a single barrel cannon with smart ammo, the US/UK use a Bofors L70 40mm gun like this onlee, the Germans have their 35mm oerlikon millenium gun.

However idk where will we get ToT for smart ammo, DRDO has made a timed fuze 30mm shell

Current AK630 operates like modern CIWS. For RBUs, last week we discussed about building ASROC like UVLS Missile (We have tech, but there is no requirement). But @Binayak95 sir told, that RBU is still cheap and becoming versatile with the advent of Underwater drones.

 

[randombully]

ITT Defense bro sperging over "stealth cupola" when the biggest L of AK630 is it being centrally directed and not autonomous.
This is aside from the 30mm cannon itself being innaccurate
Meanwhile the Korean CIWS has it's own AESA radar and EO/IR camera for autonomous targeting


View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1944215372506575345


imo Admirals must focus on the shiny new method of CIWS going with a single barrel cannon with smart ammo, the US/UK use a Bofors L70 40mm gun like this onlee, the Germans have their 35mm oerlikon millenium gun.

However idk where will we get ToT for smart ammo, DRDO has made a timed fuze 30mm shell

A combination of a modern rotary 30mm ak630/phalanx type ciws and bofors 40mm type with single barrel & airburst ammo is the best overall combo as far as gun based point defense is concerned.

Paired with radar, EO/IR guidance, sophisticated FCS.

Both will be effective at 3-4km, but ak630 due to fast reaction time and firing rate can also engage target if they reach extremely close I.e. 1km or less.
Bofors 40mm with airburst ammo will help at engaging targets at longer ranges compared to ak630.
So for point defense combination of both will allow the increase in engagement envelope, from extremely close 1km or less range to more father 5km and more range.
Plus these systems will also cover each other's weaknesses.
And common range of 3-5 km is where both can engage and basically create a wall of bullets and shrapnels.


But again, will add to extra cost and complexity of having two different types of gun base ciws.

 

[shade2]

Thinking is fine. But what about Crores of Rupees Indian Tax payers paid for this projects only to see another crores of rupees spent to buy Foreign radars, SAMs. Mango People cannot be cheated for long time right. Sensible people will started to question, why are we wasting money on projects which is not even getting orders.

Even if politically it is authorized by US, getting AEGIS still costs $$$.

$$$ which MoD babooze won't approve.
Besides they won't allow ToT for it which is another stickler.

Deshi maal or atleast ToTed foreign maal has better chance of getting order approved by MoD.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

ITT Defense bro sperging over "stealth cupola" when the biggest L of AK630 is it being centrally directed and not autonomous.
This is aside from the 30mm cannon itself being innaccurate
Meanwhile the Korean CIWS has it's own AESA radar and EO/IR camera for autonomous targeting

1. In our context, the stealthy cupolas don't matter as much because our destroyers and frigates aren't that stealthy. But a stealth mount has nothing to do it's fire control being slaved only to the bridge.

2. The AK-630 makes up for this deficit with it's rate of fire. The Russian solution to this problem was to simply add two rotary cannons on one mount. While the chinese went for more barrels (11).

3. We can simply copy the chinese solution and add local radars and EO pods to each gun. The Korean gun may be more precise but the chinese gun fires at 10,000 rpm. Against approaching maneuverable supersonic targets, I'd take the volume of fire over "precise targeting" any time.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

1. In our context, the stealthy cupolas don't matter as much because our destroyers and frigates aren't that stealthy. But a stealth mount has nothing to do it's fire control being slaved only to the bridge.

2. The AK-630 makes up for this deficit with it's rate of fire. The Russian solution to this problem was to simply add two rotary cannons on one mount. While the chinese went for more barrels (11).View attachment 43190View attachment 43191

3. We can simply copy the chinese solution and add local radars and EO pods to each gun. The Korean gun may be more precise but the chinese gun fires at 10,000 rpm. Against approaching maneuverable supersonic targets, I'd take the volume of fire over "precise targeting" any time.

Even US don't give a damn about Stealth design for their Arleigh Burke class. Stealth for ships were overrated.

As you told, we can build something similar to Chinaman design. Recent GRSE 30mm Cannon from Elbit ToT looks very similar barring the Radar.

 

[shade2]

View attachment 43198

Even US don't give a damn about Stealth design for their Arleigh Burke class. Stealth for ships were overrated.

As you told, we can build something similar to Chinaman design. Recent GRSE 30mm Cannon from Elbit ToT looks very similar barring the Radar.

Need a bigger cannon
35-40mm is the sweet spot.

We have L&T Teevra which is the Bofors L70 40mm cannon but navalized.



basically the new CIWS "model" has smart ammo which is a fancy timed fuze, when it reaches the projectile(enemy drone or missile ) the CIWS wala shell explodes like a shotgun shell, shooting tungsten pellets at the enemy projectile the actual cannon also has a high fire rate so the projectile ends up with a lot of holes which kills the missile/drone

This is the Bofors 40 mk4, basically the L70 cannon but uses the 3P smart ammo

 

[snakeeyes07]

Need a bigger cannon
35-40mm is the sweet spot.

We have L&T Teevra which is the Bofors L70 40mm cannon but navalized.

View attachment 43200

basically the new CIWS "model" has smart ammo which is a fancy timed fuze, when it reaches the projectile(enemy drone or missile ) the CIWS wala shell explodes like a shotgun shell, shooting tungsten pellets at the enemy projectile the actual cannon also has a high fire rate so the projectile ends up with a lot of holes which kills the missile/drone

This is the Bofors 40 mk4, basically the L70 cannon but uses the 3P smart ammo

View attachment 43201

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R2paycb24I

 

[snakeeyes07]

MQ-9B AEW could be flying from Vikrant and IAC-2 in future

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgSJtC4mJo

 

[snakeeyes07]

Ways to pack more missiles on existing IN ships

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92wflwChho0

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNBuohfWITc

 

[Interested]

MQ-9B AEW could be flying from Vikrant and IAC-2 in future

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKgSJtC4mJo

Future of carrier operation may be only drones without any human flown craft on it . It would make the ships cheaper and level the playing field between the halves and halve nots significantly .

 

[vampyrbladez]

PN's Azmat class has 8xC802 or 6x Harbah (Babur).

Though not as powerful as but quantity has a quality of it's own. Adding 4-8 NASM-MR to NGMV will make quite it a bit of difference.

It's a replacement for the Veer Class of guided missile corvettes with enhanced range and sea handling thanks to the LM2500 engines.

In 1990, MDL cancelled a study to equip the Indian-built units with a General Electric LM2500 gas turbines and two MTU diesels due to technical difficulties.

Veer (Tarantul I) Class – Indian Navy

I tried to figure out the purpose of the NGMV and it points to a Veer Class corvette replacement with an MFR-X Band AESA radar and 4 x BrahMos missiles.



Veer Class corvette

It is likely that the NGMV will lack any static SAM system and could have manually a aimed Igla-S missile. I made a post earlier about ways to add a turret to give the vessel a fighting chance.

Agreed. However we still need hulls even if for the sake of numbers.

A Brahmaputra Class frigate providing localised air defence with Barak 1 missiles and stationed alongside 1-2 NGMV to protect a Kamorta Class Corvette and 4 ASW-SWC Corvettes undertaking ASW missions in the Arabian Sea is better than nothing.

A Nilgiri Class Frigate or Kolkata/Vishakapatnam Class Destroyer would provide theatre air defence using its Barak 8 missiles.

The alternative would be to divert a Shivalik or Talwar Class Frigate away from a Destroyer Squadron or CBG.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

The new p17B in consideration is rumored to be 8000tons.
P15A/B destroyer are 7500-7600 tons.
P17A frigates are 6700 tons.

P18 destroyer project is on drawing board.
But some components are being tested.
Like this.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1686410678649966592
A nice thread.

View: https://x.com/Flankerchan/status/1886091977160269903

View: https://x.com/Flankerchan/status/1886093994456953211

Isnt these radars should placed higher??? they r very low. if they put higher, they can see sea skimming cruise missiles from more longer range. Is this radar will situated in same position on other ships, like shown in this diagram??? any plan to use GAN based aesa radar for navy ships.

 

[SamFP]

It's a replacement for the Veer Class of guided missile corvettes with enhanced range and sea handling thanks to the LM2500 engines.

Veer (Tarantul I) Class – Indian Navy

Why are we even building missile boats/vessels in this day and age?


Case For Combining Indian Navy’s NGMV & NGC Needs Into A Unitary Procurement

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1944622888729845947

Guess this is confirmation that the cannon used here is the Bushmaster and not the Shipunov used everywhere else.

CRN-91 is in use in Navy since 30 years now and surely the ammo for that is Navalized already.

 

[shade2]

TIL BBC has a Hinthi youtube channel

Anyway video contains high res footage of INS Arnala at sea plus the inside view


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3IejT4OAyE

 

[Fatalis]

View: https://x.com/IN_HQENC/status/1944738119636729898?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1944738119636729898%7Ctwgr%5E4f33a16832792727f719b9bf9ec31a12a8bee42a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.strategicfront.org%2Fforums%2Fthreads%2Fauxiliary-ships-of-indian-navy-news-and-discussions.2365%2Fpage-17

 

[Sanglamorre]

TIL BBC has a Hinthi youtube channel

Anyway video contains high res footage of INS Arnala at sea plus the inside view


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3IejT4OAyE

Worried about BBC HINDI? fucking DW is doing some joint programmes with Kolkata TV in Bengali