Indian Navy Developments & Discussions (23 Viewers)

[snakeeyes07]

Ok, I assumed you were talking about land attack.

Anyway your light frigate concept is stuck on us not having that type of missile

Even on NGMV 4x is used

NASM-MR is being developed for this purpose, cheap subsonic SSM on the lines of Harpoon/Exocet.

Perhaps the current Kora class corvette may be replaced by a larger 3-4k ton light frigate like you describe if the Admirals go that way and ofc if NASM-MR is inducted

View attachment 44049
Kora class has 16x Kh-35 SSMs

If NASM-MR doesn't work out and if we have to impoort, options are this same Kh-35, Exocet, Gabriel V( israel ).

Sea Breaker is the missile I propose, lightweight missile (400kg) with a 115kg warhead and 300km range. It is a stealthy design, will be an IIR seeker missile unlike existing IN AShM which have radar seeker. Meaning it will be stealthy in the EM spectrum as well unlike active/imaging radar seeker missiles which are detected by passive ESM when they turn on their seeker.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Ok, I assumed you were talking about land attack.

Anyway your light frigate concept is stuck on us not having that type of missile

Even on NGMV 4x is used

NASM-MR is being developed for this purpose, cheap subsonic SSM on the lines of Harpoon/Exocet.

Perhaps the current Kora class corvette may be replaced by a larger 3-4k ton light frigate like you describe if the Admirals go that way and ofc if NASM-MR is inducted

View attachment 44049
Kora class has 16x Kh-35 SSMs

If NASM-MR doesn't work out and if we have to impoort, options are this same Kh-35, Exocet, Gabriel V( israel ).

Our Offshor Patrol Vessels can be upgraded to light armed frigate standards, so this does seem like a good idea to have some armed with land-attack cruise missiles. Ultimately you'll need something to strike land largets across paki coast in large numbers, as IAF and IA can't fire as many in one go.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Sea Breaker is the missile I propose, lightweight missile (400kg) with a 115kg warhead with 300km range. It is a stealthy design, will be an IIR seeker missile unlike existing IN AShM which are radar guided. Meaning it will be stealthy in the EM spectrum as well unlike radar guided missiles which are detected by passive ESM when they turn on their seekers.

 

[shade2]

Sea Breaker is the missile I propose, lightweight missile (400kg) with a 115kg warhead and 300km range. It is a stealthy design, will be an IIR seeker missile unlike existing IN AShM which have radar seeker. Meaning it will be stealthy in the EM spectrum as well unlike active/imaging radar seeker missiles which are detected by passive ESM when they turn on their seeker.

It's a good choice( also has air launched version so commonality with IAF ) but don't think it will get past MoD, aside from some drama by DRDO guys since it will hurt NASM-MRs chances.

Navy receives step-motherly treatment from MoD for new subsystem and munitions impoorts, it's why you have them milking the existing stuff and being friendly with DRDO and DPSU to develop more stuff.

 

[FalconSlayers]

We should work toward building something like LRASM of the US Navy, stealth subsonic cruise missiles that are lighter and can be carrier in large numbers, instead of NASM-MR/Sea Breaker and all that. BrahMos is good but it's biggest drawback is it's size and mass, only one can be carried by an Su-30MKI at a time, while at similar range you can fire 2-4 LRASMs from a Naval fighter jet. BrahMos-NG although smaller and faster only has 300km range. At least we could fire it from our Naval C-295s if not P8s.

 

[shade2]

We should work toward building something like LRASM of the US Navy, stealth subsonic cruise missiles that are lighter and can be carrier in large numbers, instead of NASM-MR/Sea Breaker and all that. BrahMos is good but it's biggest drawback is it's size and mass, only one can be carried by an Su-30MKI at a time, while at similar range you can fire 2-4 LRASMs from a Naval fighter jet. BrahMos-NG although smaller and faster only has 300km range. At least we could fire it from our Naval C-295s if not P8s.
View attachment 44060

CATS Hunter was in development apparently but neither of the forces have pushed for it, they seem to be interested in supersonic??
Atleast IAF has the SCALP missile available

Ruskals also have the Kh-69 missile, it is a dabba missile just like this, it is air launched from fighterjets including Mig-29K

 

[FalconSlayers]

CATS Hunter was in development apparently but neither of the forces have pushed for it, they seem to be interested in supersonic??
Atleast IAF has the SCALP missile available

Ruskals also have the Kh-69 missile, it is a dabba missile just like this, it is air launched from fighterjets including Mig-29K

SCALP isn't anti-ship missile. The French have sold us the 120km obsolete Exocet which we *happily* bought as well. But then we don't have own AShM except NASM-MR.

CATS Hunter isn't an AShM either. LRASM is 900-1000km range missile, stealth, and cheaper than a BrahMos. Although it's bigger than typical AShMs, but it's obvious for such ranges.


I doubt we'll ever get to the stage of "anti-ship" hypersonic cruise missiles any soon, especially air-launched.

 

[SamFP]

we should not decrease 16 number of brahmos from our destroyers. coz they can do both antiship nd land attacks. if we decrease brahmos number nd put some nirbhay on it. then our anti ship capability decreases, coz nirbhay cant do antiship missions. although we get near 1000-1500 km long ground attack capability. but i think for ships antiship capability is more important. coz we hv limited platforms from sea to target enemy ships. so nirbhay should only include in our destroyer nd frigate if we can make space for additional missiles on open VLS cells. like delhi class destroyer hv.
View attachment 44046
by looking space in delhi class,,, we can fit 2-3 more VLS cells on it. that will increase its 8 brahmos number to 16 brahmos. same type of setup we can add on our destroyers (Kolkata nd vishakhapatnam) nd frigate (shivalik nd nilgiri class). that will increase missile numbers in our destroyers nd frigate.

With a range of 1500km you dont need to put nirbhay on ships (until a UVLS is developed) to target the paki coast, just fire them from land based launchers from gujarat or mh

 

[FalconSlayers]

With a range of 1500km you dont need to put nirbhay on ships (until a UVLS is developed) to target the paki coast, just fire them from land based launchers from gujarat or mh

You don't need them for pakis alone, you need something to deter some special middle eastern countries. have max 450/800km range.

 

[shade2]

You don't need them for pakis alone, you need something to deter some special middle eastern countries. have max 450/800km range.
View attachment 44063
View attachment 44065

For al-Qutter the best deterrence is removing our gulf-bux enjoying NRIs from there and diversify Gas suppliers.

As for Indogesia etc i concur

 

[Interested]

You don't need them for pakis alone, you need something to deter some special middle eastern countries. have max 450/800km range.
View attachment 44063
View attachment 44065

Qatar ?

The Americans protect Qatar , pretty much the only reason Israelis have not bombed them back to the Stone Age . Hamas is heavily funded by the Qataris , even more than the Iranians .

 

[FalconSlayers]

Qatar ?

The Americans protect Qatar , pretty much the only reason Israelis have not bombed them back to the Stone Age . Hamas is heavily funded by the Qataris , even more than the Iranians .

Who says we should hit them? I said we should have some vessels with LR-LACM just in case.

 

[Interested]

Who says we should hit them? I said we should have some vessels with LR-LACM just in case.

We have ballistic missiles in plenty which can hit them safely from India itself if need be .

 

[FalconSlayers]

We have ballistic missiles in plenty which can hit them safely from India itself if need be .

All those IRBMs/ICBMs are used to deliver nuclear weapons. I mean why even argue? There's no harm having a class of anti-surface warfare ships armed with Nirbhays. Qutter was just an example.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

's biggest issue is it's size, even something big as vizag class can only 16, it's also our only naval missile capable of land attack role

IMO, we need 3-4k ton frigates with something like 10 brahmos, and we should order like 12 of them. While same type of frigates should also have a variant witn a lot SAMs, that we can have both anti air and anti surface/land attack capable vessels.

Further naam mr should be used in slanted launchers on corvette size ships in 12-16 numbers.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Yup, anti-surface warfare vessels are totally absent in Indian ships. All of them filled with BrahMos but where's Nirbhay?

Nirbhay & NASM MR will be available by 2030. Another reason why P18 were delayed to see the maturity of this Nirbhay. NASM MR will be Kh-35 equivalent. So this missile will replace the primary Ashm for Talwar class in future. Also by 2030 entire Kusha Series of missile will be in LSP. At present VLSRSAM is ready for installation in older ships to replace shitil 1

Also , with the rate DRDO Missile bros were working on HSDTV tech. Navy bros will wait for some serious firepower solutions.

Navy is waiting for some serious missile maxing to arm the next gen destroyers.

 

[Nutcracker]

Can Navy get a EMALS based but conventionally powered Aircraft carrier like China.
EMALS system is said to take 130kwh energy. That's equivalent to about 40Liters of diesel if domestic generators are used, LM2500 (can use variety of fuel) might be even more efficient. INS Vikrant fuel capacity if 8000 tons. Just 40 Tons of fuel can facilitate 1000 sorties.
Airwing will either run out of ammunition or aviation fuel (x4 Ton each sorty). Maybe such Carrier could've been sought after if Navy's order book and capex was not already capped to the brim.

 

[shade2]

Can Navy get a EMALS based but conventionally powered Aircraft carrier like China.
EMALS system is said to take 130kwh energy. That's equivalent to about 40Liters of diesel if domestic generators are used, LM2500 (can use variety of fuel) might be even more efficient. INS Vikrant fuel capacity if 8000 tons. Just 40 Tons of fuel can facilitate 1000 sorties.
Airwing will either run out of ammunition or aviation fuel (x4 Ton each sorty). Maybe such Carrier could've been sought after if Navy's order book and capex was not already capped to the brim.

We don't have the EMALS tech saar and GA only sells a cut down version for drones etc.
US obviously won't ToT this and our industrial espionage game is comedy tier.

The problem is we don't have the EMALS, propulsion is not the issue.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Can Navy get a EMALS based but conventionally powered Aircraft carrier like China.
EMALS system is said to take 130kwh energy. That's equivalent to about 40Liters of diesel if domestic generators are used, LM2500 (can use variety of fuel) might be even more efficient. INS Vikrant fuel capacity if 8000 tons. Just 40 Tons of fuel can facilitate 1000 sorties.
Airwing will either run out of ammunition or aviation fuel (x4 Ton each sorty). Maybe such Carrier could've been sought after if Navy's order book and capex was not already capped to the brim.

Your planes also needs to able to handle emals pressure during take off or you risk damaging it's structure. I doubt current fleet of mig-29k are capable of such.

Apart from that designing such a carrier and having built will take 15 years, rather focus on surface and submarine fleet , along with hypersonic missiles. We can get a conventional ski-jump carrier around 65k tonnes, which is probably already on the drawing board

 

[Nutcracker]

We don't have the EMALS tech saar and GA only sells a cut down version for drones etc.
US obviously won't ToT this and our industrial espionage game is comedy tier.

The problem is we don't have the EMALS, propulsion is not the issue.

Frenchies planning for EMALS on PANG, probabs GA only. Our navy arm is blue eyed wing for Amreekis, maybe a deal can be sought.

Your plane also needs to able to handle emal pressur during take off, you risk damaging it's structure. I doubt current fleet of mig-29k are capable of such.

Arre Mig29 is past. I'm not even counting them. RafaleM can surely take the load of catapult. They are built for Charles de Gaulle.