Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Indianhawk]

Agreed. No ship even with MLU served more than 40yrs & Brahmaputra have reached 20-25. And it was kinda obsolete-on-arrival at 2000-2005 only....
Although it's hardly fair to compare with the "F-22 of warships" note that La-Fayette class is a decade older, entering service in mid-90s.View attachment 22707View attachment 22710

So I don't think we can drag it on for very long post 2035. Easier & cheaper to just arm the Saryu class like @Ayan Barat said.

Let's see how the upgrade turns out.
From naval news,

That said, the most consequential upgrade in combat capability is likely to be in the form of inclined BrahMos missile launchers replacing the 16 Kh-35 missile tubes currently on INS Beas. The Delhi class had received such an upgrade, with two four-cell inclined launchers replacing the Kh-35 launchers.

If this turns out to be true then that f22 la fayate will be be outclassed by humble beas.

Besides navy might want to find out true life of indigenous marine engine hence beas atleast will have to sail as long as it literally could.

 

[Bleh]

For example ins rajpur served 41 years for a warship built with 1970s technology.

So a 2000s technology built ins beas should easily serve 45-50 years.

That said, the most consequential upgrade in combat capability is likely to be in the form of inclined BrahMos missile launchers replacing the 16 Kh-35 missile tubes currently on INS Beas. The Delhi class had received such an upgrade, with two four-cell inclined launchers replacing the Kh-35 launchers.

Well Rajput is old as fuck... In any actual combat will be detected & tracked from 1km off port. In a best case scenario where submarines or stand-off missiles launched from air aren't involved, it might just survive long enough to launch it's BraHmos which will allow it a range advantage.

It's the same with Brahmaputra Class as well. In a pure ship-vs-ship surface-to-surface naval combat 8 BraHmos will allow it to strike 1st & fuck-off, just in case it finds itself in anything other than support role.



IMO they should just stuff it with SAMs. It has a good aerial radar.

And/or 2 ballistic missile launcher in the heli-hangers like Sukanya. It has no business being in anti-sub ops.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Let's see how the upgrade turns out.
From naval news,

That said, the most consequential upgrade in combat capability is likely to be in the form of inclined BrahMos missile launchers replacing the 16 Kh-35 missile tubes currently on INS Beas. The Delhi class had received such an upgrade, with two four-cell inclined launchers replacing the Kh-35 launchers.

If this turns out to be true then that f22 la fayate will be be outclassed by humble beas.

Besides navy might want to find out true life of indigenous marine engine hence beas atleast will have to sail as long as it literally could.

The Delhi Class (P 15) has a superior hull design which was used on the Kolkata (P 15A) and Vishakhapatnam Class (P 15B) as well.

The destroyer has 2 x 24 arm launcher based Shtil-1 (32 Km) SAM and 32 x Barak 1 (12 Km) SAM which means it has decent area air defence.

Therefore, it makes sense to upgrade from 16 x KH 35 (130 Km/ M 0.9) to 8 x BrahMos (450-900 Km/ M 3.0) to further enhance the firepower.

The Rajput Class destroyers went from 4 x P 15M missiles to 8 x BrahMos + 4 x P15M for some examples because we had no hulls at the time.

The Brahmaputra Class for now will share the KH 35 AShM with the Veer Class (2) and Kora Class (4) corvettes until the smaller vessels are retired by 2030 and replaced with NGMV and NGC.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Besides weren't you the OG complainer about under-armed boats vs Chong boats having 100+ Universal VLS of Xi Jinping ?

Yeah and also the first on this thread to make everyone realise how expensive it is to field just one BrahMos and one LRASM.

I've always maintained my stand of doing something to deal with our underarmed vessels, especially by reducing the per shot cost of missiles. But never have I said from the depths of despair that we're underarmed, so let's just MLU 'all' of our Abhay class corvettes so that they can serve till the 20th Type-055 get commissioned.

You'll need new air-defence missiles, new radar for those air-defence missile, new AShMs, new radars, new electronics to support all these, new diesel engines...

So what are we planning to have? An upgraded frigate or world's first ship that's literally the Ship of Theseus!?

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1882137308717257113

 

[darkflame]

View: https://x.com/livefist/status/1882137308717257113

The biggest problem with rafale is that exocet is the only anti-ship missile it carries, exocets have only a meagre range of 80km, they are also very expensive and not suitable for modern combat at all, even mig29ks are better in this regard they carry kh35s which have a little better range of 135km. Migs will get more teeths with nasm-mr, idk rafales will get these or not.

 

[Binayak95]

The biggest problem with rafale is that exocet is the only anti-ship missile it carries, exocets have only a meagre range of 80km, they are also very expensive and not suitable for modern combat at all, even mig29ks are better in this regard they carry kh35s which have a little better range of 135km. Migs will get more teeths with nasm-mr, idk rafales will get these or not.

It has the SCALP as well.

Exocet is an obsolete weapon at this point.

 

[abingdonboy]

The Indian navy should’ve been making louder noises about the P76 knowing this was going to happen


View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1882266715452764669?s=46

P75AS buys some breathing room for the indigenous SSK to get ready (around 2034/5), I guess it’ll have to be MDL again, in an ideal world P76 orders could be split with L&T

 

[abingdonboy]

Isse yaad aaya, why do we have two radars instead of one?

We have MF-STAR as the 'main' radar and rotating Lanza-N or LW-08 as the 2nd radar, the two ships you have shown don't have such a setup, I have seen the Admiral Gorshkov having a similar setup as ours but they have the static planar radars and the rotating one on the same "mast" structure, we have it on seperate structures

T45 have a similar split radar design

The VSR is more for anti-air and C2 and serves a different role to the mast radars which are more for fire control and missile detection

 

[abingdonboy]

This is the last update regarding timelines from December 2023. This mentions a contract award in 2029 with construction start in 2030 and delivery of the first vessel in 2035.


https://theprint.in/defence/next-ge...-fighters-expected-by-2032-says-navy/1868213/

AON this year or next, DAC in 2027, CCS 2029 then

Relatively realistic. We’d have all preferred these brought forward 2 years but alas

Definitely a case for another batch of large warships beyond P-17B though as NGF seems even further behind than NGD.

As @Gessler says the IN seems to have reached its limits with the P-15/A/B. P-17C that’s slightly larger makes a lot of sense but maybe too much sense hence it’ll just be a case of standing still between now and 2035ish

 

[Ayan Barat]

The biggest problem with rafale is that exocet is the only anti-ship missile it carries, exocets have only a meagre range of 80km, they are also very expensive and not suitable for modern combat at all, even mig29ks are better in this regard they carry kh35s which have a little better range of 135km. Migs will get more teeths with nasm-mr, idk rafales will get these or not.

Aayein!

And the biggest problem with MiGs is that most of the they are in hangar because of engine issues...

By the way...comparing older, Falkland era solid rocket motor equipped Exocet with a turbofan equipped Kh-35!!!
It's been almost 20 years since AM39 has been more or less replaced by turbojet powered MM40 Block-3. Interestingly this is the same missile for with L&T has a JV with MBDA for local production

 

[AGNI 6 ICBM]

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/defence-ministry-finds-lampt-proposal-non-compliant-in-rs-70000-crore-submarine-deal20250122221402

70,000 Crore for 6 SSK ?
We can get ~3 indigenous SSN with 190 Mw reactor in 70,000 Crore
On any day 3 SSN's >>> 6 SSK
SSK don't have enough range and can't cover beyond Bay of Bengal
Hope MOD cancels p75i & procures 9 SSN in toto

SSBN needs SSN to protect it
2 x Arihant class
2 x S4 class
6 x S5 class

10 SSBN would translate minimum 3 SSBN at sea always so 3 SSN dedicated to protect SSBN

 

[abingdonboy]

View: https://x.com/manupubby/status/1882277916475802085?s=46

Same news but completely different spin, Indian defence media are utterly useless

ANI is usually the govt mouthpiece but Manu is usually pretty reliable too

As clear as mud as usual with these gold plated imports

The case for P75I doesn’t exist anymore, the cost alone makes it a farce

 

[darkflame]

It has the SCALP as well.

Exocet is an obsolete weapon at this point.

Storm Shadow can not be used as an anti-ship missile. Storm Shadow (and the identical SCALP) is designed to hit fixed targets. It can't engage moving targets, let alone moving maritime targets.