Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[shade2]

https://www.reuters.com/business/germany-plans-guarantees-tkms-secure-argentinian-submarine-deal-say-sources-2025-01-29/

Germany plans guarantees for TKMS to secure Argentinian submarine deal, say sources​

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's budget committee is expected to approve state guarantees worth up to 4.1 billion euros ($4.27 billion) to help Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems(TKMS) win an order from Argentina for three submarines, two sources in the budget committee told Reuters on Wednesday.

Several media outlets have reported that a French shipbuilder is also been in the running for the order, worth some 2.2 billion euros, which has not yet been made.

The guarantees would cover the construction and delivery of three Type 209 submarines, made by TKMS, plus replacement parts and training.

The shipyard is in direct talks with the Argentinian defence ministry, according to a budget committee document seen by Reuters. Delivery would be due in 2034 and 2035.

A prerequisite for Argentina awarding the contract to the German shipyard is the offer of credit financing on long-term payment terms. The committee is due to approve the guarantees later on Wednesday, according to the sources.

No comment was immediately available from Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems.

=======================================================================

Sutro se pata chala hai ki
KOI TOH LELO!!!!!!



Hope our Baboons do a good job of negotiating our submarine contract

 

[Bleh]

https://www.reuters.com/business/germany-plans-guarantees-tkms-secure-argentinian-submarine-deal-say-sources-2025-01-29/

Germany plans guarantees for TKMS to secure Argentinian submarine deal, say sources​

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's budget committee is expected to approve state guarantees worth up to 4.1 billion euros ($4.27 billion) to help Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems(TKMS) win an order from Argentina for three submarines, two sources in the budget committee told Reuters on Wednesday.

Several media outlets have reported that a French shipbuilder is also been in the running for the order, worth some 2.2 billion euros, which has not yet been made.

The guarantees would cover the construction and delivery of three Type 209 submarines, made by TKMS, plus replacement parts and training.

The shipyard is in direct talks with the Argentinian defence ministry, according to a budget committee document seen by Reuters. Delivery would be due in 2034 and 2035.

A prerequisite for Argentina awarding the contract to the German shipyard is the offer of credit financing on long-term payment terms. The committee is due to approve the guarantees later on Wednesday, according to the sources.

No comment was immediately available from Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems.

=======================================================================

Sutro se pata chala hai ki
KOI TOH LELO!!!!!!



Hope our Baboons do a good job of negotiating our submarine contract

Who'd but a Type209 in today's time?!

 

[ArjunMK1A]

https://www.reuters.com/business/germany-plans-guarantees-tkms-secure-argentinian-submarine-deal-say-sources-2025-01-29/

Germany plans guarantees for TKMS to secure Argentinian submarine deal, say sources​

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's budget committee is expected to approve state guarantees worth up to 4.1 billion euros ($4.27 billion) to help Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems(TKMS) win an order from Argentina for three submarines, two sources in the budget committee told Reuters on Wednesday.

Several media outlets have reported that a French shipbuilder is also been in the running for the order, worth some 2.2 billion euros, which has not yet been made.

The guarantees would cover the construction and delivery of three Type 209 submarines, made by TKMS, plus replacement parts and training.

The shipyard is in direct talks with the Argentinian defence ministry, according to a budget committee document seen by Reuters. Delivery would be due in 2034 and 2035.

A prerequisite for Argentina awarding the contract to the German shipyard is the offer of credit financing on long-term payment terms. The committee is due to approve the guarantees later on Wednesday, according to the sources.

No comment was immediately available from Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems.

=======================================================================

Sutro se pata chala hai ki
KOI TOH LELO!!!!!!



Hope our Baboons do a good job of negotiating our submarine contract

Argentina order will be cockblocked by small dick britishers stating falklands. Their MEKO itself is in dire state due to United shitdom.

 

[shade2]

Who'd but a Type209 in today's time?!

Argentina order will be cockblocked by small dick britishers stating falklands. Their MEKO itself is in dire state due to United shitdom.

My point is the TKMS/German govt is desperate, we must make use of this desperation.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

My point is the TKMS/German govt is desperate, we must make use of this desperation.

We know our Babudom. It will be a middle ground.

 

[Fatalis]

KEEL LAYING OF SEVENTH SHIP (BY 529, MACHILIPATNAM) OF ASW SWC PROJECT AT CSL, KOCHI​

​

Posted On: 29 JAN 2025 8:05PM by PIB Delhi

Keel Laying of the seventh ship (BY 529, Machilipatnam) of the Anti-Submarine Warfare Shallow Water Craft (ASW SWC) project was undertaken on 29 Jan 25 in the presence of RAdm Upal Kundu, Chief of Staff, Southern Naval Command. Senior officials of the Indian Navy and CSL were also present for the ceremony. With almost all major and auxiliary equipment/ systems sourced from indigenous manufacturers, these ships exemplify the GoI Initiative of “Aatmanirbhar Bharat”. This milestone, in quick succession of the Keel Laying of the sixth ship in Dec 24 and Launching of the fourth and fifth ships at CSL in Sep 24, demonstrates the steadfast efforts of the Indian Shipyards to meet Indian Navy’s growing operational requirements.

Contract for building eight ASW SWC ships was awarded to Cochin Shipyard Limited by the Ministry of Defence on 30 Apr 19. The ships known as the ‘Mahe’ class, will be equipped with indigenously developed, state-of-the-art underwater sensors, and are envisaged to undertake anti-submarine operations in coastal waters as well as Low Intensity Maritime Operations (LIMO) and Mine Laying Operations.

The first ship of the project is planned to be delivered in early 2025. Besides enhancing Indian Navy’s Anti-Submarine Warfare capabilities, the high indigenous content on these ASW SWC ships is also generating large scale employment and capability enhancement of Indian Manufacturing Units.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Given that the top 5 navies of the 2030s (US. China, Russia, India, France-UK) will all use some form of arsenal ships, reloading VLS at sea between conflicts would become a significant challenge.

The problem with most Fleet Supply Ships is that they are big, manned by 100+ soldiers and take several minutes to set up a line between ships, deploy crane, pull out the empty canister, align the VLS reload canister and then push it into the VLS cell.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/n...tical-launch-system-at-sea-for-the-first-time

How about we instead use VLS crane-canister drones to quickly move through contested territory, dock with the respective VLS cell and then load a fresh VLS canister?

Notional drone crane to pickup spent canister/ ship based

Notional VLS Canister drone with detachable wings


Notional docking sequence where VLS canister drone lines up with VLS cell after VLS crane drone has removed the spent VLS canister to transfer the fresh reload canister

Notional VLS canister moved into VLS cell post docking

If you think this is insane then please note that there are plans afoot to turn oil rigs into VLS reloading stations.

Leidos Gibbs and Cox is looking to deliver enhanced logistical capabilities and faster vertical launch cell reloading through its Mobile Depot Platform, a concept that converts surplus civilian semi-submersible oil rigs into relocatable resupply hubs.

Leidos Eyes Oil Rigs for Logistical Hubs, Faster VLS Reloading - Naval News

Leidos Gibbs and Cox is looking to deliver relocatable logistical hubs and faster VLS reloading through its Mobile Depot Platform concept.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Ayan Barat]

Given that the top 5 navies of the 2030s (US. China, Russia, India, France-UK) will all use some form of arsenal ships, reloading VLS at sea between conflicts would become a significant challenge.

The problem with most Fleet Supply Ships is that they are big, manned by 100+ soldiers and take several minutes to set up a line between ships, deploy crane, pull out the empty canister, align the VLS reload canister and then push it into the VLS cell.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/n...tical-launch-system-at-sea-for-the-first-time

How about we instead use VLS crane-canister drones to quickly move through contested territory, dock with the respective VLS cell and then load a fresh VLS canister?

Notional drone crane to pickup spent canister/ ship based

Notional VLS Canister drone with detachable wings

View attachment 23466
Notional docking sequence with VLS cell to remove the spent VLS canister and transfer fresh reload canister

Notional VLS canister moved into VLS cell.

If you think this is insane then please note that there are plans afoot to turn oil rigs into VLS reloading stations.

Leidos Eyes Oil Rigs for Logistical Hubs, Faster VLS Reloading - Naval News

Leidos Gibbs and Cox is looking to deliver relocatable logistical hubs and faster VLS reloading through its Mobile Depot Platform concept.

www.navalnews.com

There is some definite novelty in your idea but the problem is that if we consider a canister to be a "cargo" that can be transported by UAVs then in reality it should be called an "oversized cargo" because of its weight.

A BrahMos canister is 4,000kg. Just to get an idea of what it takes to fly 4t of cargo; 4t is the payload of a typical UH-60 Black Hawk. It requires two turboshaft, totalling 4,000shp of power to achieve this feat.

 

[vampyrbladez]

There is some definite novelty in your idea but the problem is that if we consider a canister to be a "cargo" that can be transported by UAVs then in reality it should be called an "oversized cargo" because of its weight.

A BrahMos canister is 4,000kg. Just to get an idea of what it takes to fly 4t of cargo; 4t is the payload of a typical UH-60 Black Hawk. It requires two turboshaft, totalling 4,000shp of power to achieve this feat.

This is for future 'heavy' drone designs.

 

[Ayan Barat]

This is for future 'heavy' drone designs.

A quadcopter (or a more refined design in my opinion would be a tandem rotor UAV like Chinook as it would match the long, slender over-all shape of the canister better and can be stored in smaller area by folding the rotors) powered by two 2,000hp turboshaft would guzzle around 800kg of fuel per hour. Assuming a speed of even 250km/h and you'd need 1,600kg worth of fuel to cover just a 250km round trip.

With 1.6t of fuel the copter won't even cross the Exclusive Economic Zone (370km) of a country, let alone travelling long distances to replenish in enemy territory.

To replenish just two warships you need something ranging from 30 copters flying together to one copter doing 30 round trips. At some point a slow moving ship with 100 reloads, but defended by its own escort frigate or corvette would feel like a better option than a fleet of 100 high end (priced similiar to Black Hawk) but completely defenceless copters.

The only niché scenario where this makes sense is if you're USA and you're facing an eminent second wave attack from an adversary after you've depleted you're SAM magazine considerably. Because now your priority is to get just 8-10 ESSM canisters as fast as possible and being USA, you've bases all over the world from where these copters can do this.

 

[vampyrbladez]

To replenish just two warships you need something ranging from 30 copters flying together to one copter doing 30 round trips. At some point a slow moving ship with 100 reloads, but defended by its own escort frigate or corvette would feel like a better option than a fleet of 100 high end (priced similiar to Black Hawk) but completely defenceless copters.

The only niché scenario where this makes sense is if you're USA and you're facing an eminent second wave attack from an adversary after you've depleted you're SAM magazine considerably. Because now your priority is to get just 8-10 ESSM canisters as fast as possible and being USA, you've bases all over the world from where these copters can do this.

As compared to BrahMos, I think this would be more relevant in replenishing Barak 8 cells since they are much smaller, lighter and more likely to be expended in a saturation attack from PLAN.

Even the USN was struggling with barrages from an irregular enemy in the Red Sea.

The U.S. Navy’s surface fleet has fired nearly 400 individual munitions while battling Iran-backed Houthi rebels in the Red Sea over the past 15 months. That includes the firing of 120 SM-2 missiles, 80 SM-6 missiles, 160 rounds from destroyers and cruisers’ five-inch main guns, as well as a combined 20 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles (ESSM) and SM-3 missiles.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/n...to-air-missiles-it-fired-during-red-sea-fight

 

[Blood+]

There is some definite novelty in your idea but the problem is that if we consider a canister to be a "cargo" that can be transported by UAVs then in reality it should be called an "oversized cargo" because of its weight.

A BrahMos canister is 4,000kg. Just to get an idea of what it takes to fly 4t of cargo; 4t is the payload of a typical UH-60 Black Hawk. It requires two turboshaft, totalling 4,000shp of power to achieve this feat.

Don't forget the sea state and wind condions.

 

[Fatalis]

Indian Navy's P75(I) submarine program progresses - Naval News

The Indian Navy's P75(I) program progressed with the selection of MDL - TKMS bid for further processing

www.navalnews.com

 

[rohitb3]

Given that the top 5 navies of the 2030s (US. China, Russia, India, France-UK) will all use some form of arsenal ships, reloading VLS at sea between conflicts would become a significant challenge.

The problem with most Fleet Supply Ships is that they are big, manned by 100+ soldiers and take several minutes to set up a line between ships, deploy crane, pull out the empty canister, align the VLS reload canister and then push it into the VLS cell.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/n...tical-launch-system-at-sea-for-the-first-time

How about we instead use VLS crane-canister drones to quickly move through contested territory, dock with the respective VLS cell and then load a fresh VLS canister?

Notional drone crane to pickup spent canister/ ship based

Notional VLS Canister drone with detachable wings

View attachment 23466
Notional docking sequence where VLS canister drone lines up with VLS cell after VLS crane drone has removed the spent VLS canister to transfer the fresh reload canister

Notional VLS canister moved into VLS cell post docking

If you think this is insane then please note that there are plans afoot to turn oil rigs into VLS reloading stations.

Leidos Eyes Oil Rigs for Logistical Hubs, Faster VLS Reloading - Naval News

Leidos Gibbs and Cox is looking to deliver relocatable logistical hubs and faster VLS reloading through its Mobile Depot Platform concept.

www.navalnews.com

Sorry, off topic, but Uk or France wont be anywhere near the Top 5 in the 2030s. US,China,India, Japan...some gap...Russia and then probably South Korea.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Sorry, off topic, but Uk or France wont be anywhere near the Top 5 in the 2030s. US,China,India, Japan...some gap...Russia and then probably South Korea.

They have SSN/SSBN so there is still some institutional power with them.

 

[shade2]

Given that the top 5 navies of the 2030s (US. China, Russia, India, France-UK) will all use some form of arsenal ships, reloading VLS at sea between conflicts would become a significant challenge.

Sorry, off topic, but Uk or France wont be anywhere near the Top 5 in the 2030s. US,China,India, Japan...some gap...Russia and then probably South Korea.

India is not in the top 5 navies, that would be US, China, Japan, SoKo, Russia.
Def in the Top 10 though.

 

[rohitb3]

India is not in the top 5 navies, that would be US, China, Japan, SoKo, Russia.
Def in the Top 10 though.

lol, whatever makes you happy

 

[rohitb3]

They have SSN/SSBN so there is still some institutional power with them.

full marks on the submarine fleet front.
Meanwhile their Carrier , which has already completed 35 years
Their Destroyer fleet whose average design age is around 40 years
Frigate fleet
Fleet support replenishment ships
OPV fleet
Special intelligence ships like INS Dhruv

Though gotta give it to their Corvette fleet

And this gap will will increase by much more by 2030.

 

[shade2]

lol, whatever makes you happy

C'mon, everyone here keeps crying about VLS numbers, LHD, Minesweeper, old submarines, not enough nuclear submarines, Carriers without enough jets etc.

BTS and Anime navies have it much better.

Anyway UK/France/Roosi are declining powers with a shrinking fleet so eventually we'll get into the Top 5.

 

[rohitb3]

C'mon, everyone here keeps crying about VLS numbers, LHD, Minesweeper, old submarines, not enough nuclear submarines, Carriers without enough jets etc.

BTS and Anime navies have it much better.

Anyway UK/France/Roosi are declining powers with a shrinking fleet so eventually we'll get into the Top 5.

You lost me at S.Korea. Russia-Japan-India comparison is debatable. But S.Korea, though a growing Naval power is nowhere near India. Lack of Aircraft Carriers, Nuclear Submarines, Naval Air fleet, Large replenishment ships , OPV and pretty much in every area.
The only areas they can rival India's fleet are its destroyer and submarine fleets.