Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

shade2 said:
Y'all nibbiars know how many MiG-29K's are on Vikrant?



View: https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1885194175987249392

They are split between Vikramadtiya and Vikrant but idk how many, there are total 40 in service so is this a 20/20 split?
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Maybe 12-14 per Aircraft Carrier. Maximum of 16.

The Navy plans to use its 12 MiG-29K fighters on the INS Vikrant, and bolster its fleet by procuring 26 F/A-18E or Rafale M fighters.
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https://www.defensenews.com/global/...nds-light-combat-aircraft-mig-29k-on-carrier/
 
FalconSlayers said:
What exactly is the point of raising defence budget every year when we remain where we were decades ago? I see no growth in strength of armed forces.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1886343351244300709
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Possible reasons could be :
  • The Indian Navy's funding priorities could be as follows :​
P 18 (Destroyer) and NGF > P 77(SSN) > IAC 2 > LPD/LHD

  • The Indian Navy has 40 Mig 29K and will shortly order 26 Rafale M which will be just enough to provide 20 aircraft each to the INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant and some aircraft for attrition, training and deployment to ANC (Andaman Base).

  • The Indian Navy can only provide limited number of assets (MFSTAR equipped destroyers and frigates) and SSN/SSK to accompany a CBG.

  • The expected threat of 1-2 PLAN CBG operating in the IOR by the late 2030s - early 2040s has reduced due to some unknown reasons.
 
Azaad said:
INS Vikramaditya is due to be replaced from the mid 2030s onwards. Any plans to build that 3rd AC should receive sanction now. It'd take us a decade to realize the 3rd AC.
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people dont have kaam dhanda and write reports for timepass. Vikramaditya wont be going anywhere till the mid 2040s. 2 Bil$ paid in 2008 money to use a 45,000 tons Carrier for 24-25 years? 5000 tons Destroyer INS Rana is operational since 43 years and they will decommission a 2 Bil$ 45,000 ton Carrier in 24 -25 years?
Yeah sure!
 
FalconSlayers said:
What exactly is the point of raising defence budget every year when we remain where we were decades ago? I see no growth in strength of armed forces.

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1886343351244300709
Click to expand...


You can see this from another angle that INS Vikramadtiyov is an old ship which was frankensteined into the current "Indiski droog, we gyiv you aircraft carrier at home! ship is free yes?" form( the original hull was built in 1982 ☠️ )

It is literally a jugaad ship that the Rooskies scammed us with including the aircraft.

You could see this as the IN wanting to get rid of this Rooskie jugaad with the next Vikrant class ship which is ofc much better in every way.
 
rohitb3 said:
people dont have kaam dhanda and write reports for timepass. Vikramaditya wont be going anywhere till the mid 2040s. 2 Bil$ paid in 2008 money to use a 45,000 tons Carrier for 24-25 years? 5000 tons Destroyer INS Rana is operational since 43 years and they will decommission a 2 Bil$ 45,000 ton Carrier in 24 -25 years?
Yeah sure!
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Looks like you don't read much or keep track of events. How many overseas calls at ports has the INS Vikramaditya made to say countries in East Africa or ASEAN or in the Persian Gulf which falls exactly in its scope of operations ever since it's commissioning ? How many times has it even sailed to the seas in these places ?

If the answer is in the negative ask yourself why ? In addition to this ask yourself what's the availability of its air complement the MiG-29K. Go on , do some reading before arriving at a conclusion.
 
it maybe a scam, or offcourse nowhere near as good as Vikrant. But....
Here's my prediction - A major refit will take place around the 2030 mark - New radars and sensors, upgradation in the command and control center, improving network centric capabilities, etc which will add another 10 years. After that Vikramaditya will be obsolete in 2040, but still pushed till India's 4th Carrier(something like Vishal) is ready for replacement.

Keep a screenshot of this prediction and come back in 5 years when the major refit is announced ;)
 
Vikramaditya will probably be turned into a drone/heli carrier in the late 30s and real ops will be done by Vikrant class carriers.
 
rohitb3 said:
people dont have kaam dhanda and write reports for timepass. Vikramaditya wont be going anywhere till the mid 2040s. 2 Bil$ paid in 2008 money to use a 45,000 tons Carrier for 24-25 years? 5000 tons Destroyer INS Rana is operational since 43 years and they will decommission a 2 Bil$ 45,000 ton Carrier in 24 -25 years?
Yeah sure!
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That carrier already served as aircraft carrying cruiser for a decade with soviets, it was comminsed in soviet navy in 1987.
The base hull is already 38 years old, by 2035 it will be 48 years old, almost half a century old, and if judge by when it's hull was laid(1982), 53 years old.

it will need to be retired for "safety" regions.
 
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rohitb3 said:
it maybe a scam, or offcourse nowhere near as good as Vikrant. But....
Here's my prediction - A major refit will take place around the 2030 mark - New radars and sensors, upgradation in the command and control center, improving network centric capabilities, etc which will add another 10 years. After that Vikramaditya will be obsolete in 2040, but still pushed till India's 4th Carrier(something like Vishal) is ready for replacement.

Keep a screenshot of this prediction and come back in 5 years when the major refit is announced ;)
Click to expand...
If a major refit is announced in the 2030s , it means we've learned nothing from our experiences & forgotten nothing.

It'd be straight out of the playbook of the MoD right thru the 1980s , 90s & 2000s where in order to replace the original INS Vikrant we came up with another used AC, the HMS Hermes & re christened it the INS Viraat & plowed on.

Every now & then we spent hundreds of crores on a "major refit " while still reading news of a major break down a few months after the major refit requiring further refits & thus squeezed every ounce of juice & life from it like your neighborhood sugarcane juice vendor does by squeezing every drop from the canestick the performance & life cycle of the motor & the electricity thus consumed be damned.

Back then we could at least excuse this thought process on grounds we were a poor nation with a pathetic GDP. It seems old habits die hard for by the end of this decade we should be a 6 trillion USD GDP with the babooos in the MoD & MoF still stuck in the 1980s mentality.

No suprises if your prediction comes true at all for after all as an old acquaintance of mine used to ask - insaan gareeb is liye hota hain kyonki woh paison se gareeb hain ya ki akl se?
 
Vikramaditya is going no where anytime soon. Yes it is not perfect but it is still flagship of the Indian Navy.
We inducted it in 2013 after massive restoration and rebuilding it will undergo modernization refit by 2030s and serve for another 20 years at the least.

Even when it's replacement will arrive it won't be retired fully but shall be used as training carrier .

We are flying 50 years old jets in the air.
We aren't going to let go of this beast unless we milk it dry for 40-45 years.
 
Azaad said:
If a major refit is announced in the 2030s , it means we've learned nothing from our experiences & forgotten nothing.

It'd be straight out of the playbook of the MoD right thru the 1980s , 90s & 2000s where in order to replace the original INS Vikrant we came up with another used AC, the HMS Hermes & re christened it the INS Viraat & plowed on.

Every now & then we spent hundreds of crores on a "major refit " while still reading news of a major break down a few months after the major refit requiring further refits & thus squeezed every ounce of juice & life from it like your neighborhood sugarcane juice vendor does by squeezing every drop from the canestick the performance & life cycle of the motor & the electricity thus consumed be damned.

Back then we could at least excuse this thought process on grounds we were a poor nation with a pathetic GDP. It seems old habits die hard for by the end of this decade we should be a 6 trillion USD GDP with the babooos in the MoD & MoF still stuck in the 1980s mentality.

No suprises if your prediction comes true at all for after all as an old acquaintance of mine used to ask - insaan gareeb is liye hota hain kyonki woh paison se gareeb hain ya ki akl se?
Click to expand...
The difference now is that since we can ourselves design and build carriers. We have almost everything ready to modernize Vikram as we require thanks to ecosystem vikrant construction build.
 
Indianhawk said:
Vikramaditya is going no where anytime soon. Yes it is not perfect but it is still flagship of the Indian Navy.
We inducted it in 2013 after massive restoration and rebuilding it will undergo modernization refit by 2030s and serve for another 20 years at the least.

Even when it's replacement will arrive it won't be retired fully but shall be used as training carrier .

We are flying 50 years old jets in the air.
We aren't going to let go of this beast unless we milk it dry for 40-45 years.
Click to expand...
From what I understand the designs of IAC -2 or the 3rd AC was to have been frozen now & a proposal put up for approval of the construction.

The timing is important not just from the PoV of replacing the INS Vikramaditya whose marked deterioration in performance along with that of its air complement has been more alarming than previously estimated but also with a view to test new technology namely the IEP.

Following this around 2030 we were to design & get approval for the 65,000 Ton AC with IEP + CATOBAR & 5 years after that, around 2035 launch the construction of another 65,000 Ton AC with N Propulsion + CATOBAR.

Indianhawk said:
The difference now is that since we can ourselves design and build carriers. We have almost everything ready to modernize Vikram as we require thanks to ecosystem vikrant construction build.
Click to expand...


You're right in saying the INS Vikramaditya would be consigned to training after a major refit but whether that is for the purposes of training or continuation in service depends on the when's the decision to construct the IAC-2 taken.

The concept's similar to using the INS Arihant for training submariners in N submarines be it SSBNs or SSNs after we've commissioned the S5 series. That's the plan. How will things actually work out is anyone's guess?!
 
Indianhawk said:
Vikramaditya is going no where anytime soon. Yes it is not perfect but it is still flagship of the Indian Navy.
We inducted it in 2013 after massive restoration and rebuilding it will undergo modernization refit by 2030s and serve for another 20 years at the least.

Even when it's replacement will arrive it won't be retired fully but shall be used as training carrier .

We are flying 50 years old jets in the air.
We aren't going to let go of this beast unless we milk it dry for 40-45 years.
Click to expand...

It will be retired if the Navy finds its operation and maintenance costs ( including MiG 29s ) too high as compared to just running Vikrant and it's sister ship.

Our navy is a budgetarily-challenged force, the money saved can be used elsewhere since we'll be already running two carriers, no loss of capability would be there.

Anyway there will be an overlap where we will be running 3 carriers till Navy is confident of Vikrant-2's capabilities, then Vikramadtiyov will be retired
 
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