Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Ayan Barat]

@Ayan Barat, bhaiya ji, hamari fantasy doable hai kya?

INS Baku, circa 2050


After getting utterly irritated by FanBois spinning up all kind of ideas, Warship Design Bureau decided to silence them for once and all.
In 2030, the then INS Vikramaditya was sent to Sevmash for a mid-life crisis update. 12x launchers for LR-AShM was added in the bow, obviously MF-STAR, Strales all over, diesel engines and most importantly, VTOL naval AMCA. The new advanced carrier was christened as INS Baku.

On the day of its commissioning, an immensely accomplished officer, Commodore Sukhjinder Singh commented "Yeah...it was worth it" when asked how good this carrier was.

It is also reported that multiple FanBois commited sudoku near Cochin Shipyard.

 

[randombully]

INS Baku, circa 2050
View attachment 23963

After getting utterly irritated by FanBois spinning up all kind of ideas, Warship Design Bureau decided to silence them for once and all.
In 2030, the then INS Vikramaditya was sent to Sevmash for a mid-life crisis update. 12x launchers for LR-AShM was added in the bow, obviously MF-STAR, Strales all over, diesel engines and most importantly, VTOL naval AMCA. The new advanced carrier was christened as INS Baku.

On the day of its commissioning, an immensely accomplished officer, Commodore Sukhjinder Singh commented "Yeah...it was worth it" when asked how good this carrier was.

It is also reported that multiple FanBois commited sudoku near Cochin Shipyard.

Me in 2050.

 

[randombully]

Me in 2050.

Waise seriously, baat chit kyu na ho Rahi france-India carrier cooperation ke baare me.

 

[Bleh]

Bhai buddy refuling exist karti hai.
4 migs take off.
2 with full fuel and no payload, 2 with half the fuel but decent antiship payload.
The first 2 will return and land back after refuling the other two.
Now you have two migs with full fuel and decent anti ship payload.

Also migs with lighter air to air payload can protect other ships from paki shore based fighter jets .

As the saying goes, air power dominates naval power.

Still way too inefficient to be using half of their already less than a squadrons' strength jets, as refuelers. It'd be more cost effective than catapults if Navy simple uses sea-plane firefighters as refuelers that'd circle the carrier. The large Martin Mars carries 27ton of water, will fit atleast 30k lts of fuel.



And yes, I challenge you to show me fully laden Indian Navy Mig-29 in flight.

 

[randombully]

Still way too inefficient to be using half of their already less than a squadrons' strength jets, as refuelers. It'd be more cost effective than catapults if Navy simple uses sea-plane firefighters as refuelers that'd circle the carrier. The large Martin Mars carries 27ton of water, will fit atleast 30k lts of fuel.

View attachment 23967

And yes, I challenge you to show me fully laden Indian Navy Mig-29 in flight.

"Still way too inefficient to be using half of their already less than a squadrons' "
But still doable.

And for pakistan, airforce refullers can definitely be used( though airforce itself Is in shortage of these)
Though again in case of Pakistan, our navy's main job would be blockade and mig29's (air to air loadout) main job would be to intercept Pakistani shore based fighters which are coming with anti ship strike package to attack our ships.
Without the migs, the paki jets can just launch the antiship missiles from relatively safe distance and retreat.

 

[shade2]

Commodore Sukhjinder Singh

I always knew the ((( deeds ))) of the one admiral who hunted a whale called Natasha but always forgot his name



"Yeah...it was worth it"

 

[shade2]

Besides tedbf is also nowhere near and we all know how more 30-40 more rafale M will cost for another Carrier.
So it seems the next carrier will only get approval after some progress on tedbf. That way we can get max out of a iac-2 carrier at bearable cost.

I think tedbf is the linchpin in all this carrier question. The air wing.

Which gives us some more pointers we won't approve tebdf for just one carrier worth of jets. Because it won't be economical . We will simply import more rafales if that's the case.

So tedbf approval will mean minimum production run of 80-100 jets. Which along with 26 rafale means we will be going for 3 carriers after all.

Tebdf for two iac carries and rafale m will be shifted to catobar based bigger carrier which will be true replacement for vikramaditya in 2045 or later.

The TEDBF CDR isn't thru . It should be over the next financial year & put up before the CCS for budgetary approval. The original plan unfolded was always First Flight of Mk-2 to be followed by AMCA Mk-1 within 2 years & to be followed by the TEDBF within another 2 years. Add a year or 2 to accommodate delays.

If we assume FF TEDBF by 2030 , we should have the FOC within 5-6 yrs & the full complement of the initial 60 nos in another 7-8 yrs after the FOC. As you can clearly see we'd soon be in a situation where we won't be having the air complement in which case what do we do with the AC namely the INS Vikramaditya .

Y'all nibbiars, why did Navy want TEDBF and not a naval version of AMCA?

I'd assume the tedbf would have better payload carrying capacity, and the assumption is it could be completed quicker than AMCA development, but is there anything else?

 

[DancingPeacock]

Y'all nibbiars, why did Navy want TEDBF and not a naval version of AMCA?

I'd assume the tedbf would have better payload carrying capacity, and the assumption is it could be completed quicker than AMCA development, but is there anything else?

Nibba its been repeated 100s of times again and again. A Naval Aircraft is fundamentally different from a Airforce one. You are starting at same starting point whether its supposedly a N-AMCA or TEDBF.

 

[randombully]

View: https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1886407296068018513

Agar Sach Nikla to idrw ke mu me ghee Sakkar.

 

[shade2]

India, France to sign Rafale marine fighters deal, likely during French defence minister’s April visit​

India, France to sign Rafale marine fighters deal, likely during French defence minister's April visit

India also developing 87 Twin Engine Deck Based Fighters. Indian Navy initially sought 145, based on three-carrier force plan, but govt advised planning based on two-aircraft carrier force.

theprint.in

First it was signing during Feb 10-11 in France, then it was before end of this fiscal year( March ) and now it's in April.

I really hope the deals for Rafale-M and Scorpenes get signed and it's not been pushed back indefinitely to make space for Emergency Procurements Jaziya to be paid to Trump since Mudi will be going to US from Feb 13-14th

 

[Indianhawk]

Y'all nibbiars, why did Navy want TEDBF and not a naval version of AMCA?

I'd assume the tedbf would have better payload carrying capacity, and the assumption is it could be completed quicker than AMCA development, but is there anything else?

Converting a airforce oriented jet to a naval one never goes well . You need to design the naval jet first and then can convert it to airforce version if required.

Naval jets require much heavy landing gears. More lift which means bigger wings and more power for naval operations.

Hence clean sheet tedbf instead of naval Amca.

Also maintaing stealth coatings on sea borne carriers is too expensive and taxing.

 

[Indianhawk]

The INS Vikramaditya as it now stands can go on with "major refits " for another decade . Beyond that if you're adamant on keeping it operationally active you can well run it till 2070 . After all we've plenty of institutional experience in running platforms way past their expiry date.

The original plan as I explained in a previous post based on information from a variety of sources was to get the IAC-2 approved by 2025. If for some reason it doesn't come thru then the next deadline would be by 2030.

There's another reason why the above development must be undertaken by 2030 & that is the air complement of MiG-29K which if we don't retire it by 2035 will not need to be retired in much the same way we didn't retire most of the Sea Harriers we imported or the MiG-21 we built & flew.

The TEDBF CDR isn't thru . It should be over the next financial year & put up before the CCS for budgetary approval. The original plan unfolded was always First Flight of Mk-2 to be followed by AMCA Mk-1 within 2 years & to be followed by the TEDBF within another 2 years. Add a year or 2 to accommodate delays.

If we assume FF TEDBF by 2030 , we should have the FOC within 5-6 yrs & the full complement of the initial 60 nos in another 7-8 yrs after the FOC. As you can clearly see we'd soon be in a situation where we won't be having the air complement in which case what do we do with the AC namely the INS Vikramaditya .

It's keeping all this in mind that it is deemed imperative we go in for the IAC-2 ASAP. The news report could well be the IN putting it up before the MoD with the explainer that the IAC-2 would be a replacement for the INS Vikramaditya to allay suspicions of costs incurred in running a 3 AC Navy which prima facie isn't wrong in anyway.

My understanding is that it all depends on tedbf.
Mig29k will only be retired when tedbf will start induction. Right now it is getting new weapons like rampage. Astra integration also in progress. They already have the engine which is going in upgraded iaf mig29.


IAC-2 construction time line will also match tedbf production timeline.

So I guess IAC-2 will only be budgeted after tedbf prototype starts flying.

Only then it all makes sense.

 

[Azaad]

My understanding is that it all depends on tedbf.
Mig29k will only be retired when tedbf will start induction. Right now it is getting new weapons like rampage. Astra integration also in progress. They already have the engine which is going in upgraded iaf mig29.

IAC-2 construction time line will also match tedbf production timeline.

So I guess IAC-2 will only be budgeted after tedbf prototype starts flying.

Only then it all makes sense.

So , 2030 for FF of the TEDBF which is what I put as the final deadline for the approval of IAC-2 .

 

[ArjunMK1A]

So what we are seeing is we are trying to fix the problems of 20 years back but the warfare just changed.

Example 1999 Kargil FARP. 25 years passed and towed artillery become a sitting duck against FPV drones. IA went into limbo where FARP is even relevant for the current situation. On the other hand China man decided to go full SPH, SPA and can survive the FPV onslaught.

Also porkies went with SPH.

Same with IAF where 42 squadron is decade old concept. IN 24 subs also an decades back requirement and current PLAN have bigger submarine fleet, surface fleet.

May be after theatrization happens we may be see the clarity on the requirement.

 

[Indianhawk]

So what we are seeing is we are trying to fix the problems of 20 years back but the warfare just changed.

Example 1999 Kargil FARP. 25 years passed and towed artillery become a sitting duck against FPV drones. IA went into limbo where FARP is even relevant for the current situation. On the other hand China man decided to go full SPH, SPA and can survive the FPV onslaught.

Also porkies went with SPH.

Same with IAF where 42 squadron is decade old concept. IN 24 subs also an decades back requirement and current PLAN have bigger submarine fleet, surface fleet.

May be after theatrization happens we may be see the clarity on the requirement.

Other than Indian missile program all defense programs are a mess.

Everything is an afterthought.

Indian planning elites simply so not give much thought to Indian defence beyond nuclear and missile systems.

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1886777472563466703

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

May the additional P-8I aircraft that get procured are more equipped for over land operations... heavy on EW/ELINT/COMINT & the AN/APY-10 radar modified for over land surveillance... becoming a true tri service platform.

Few years back DAC cleared purchase of additional 6 P-8I but it never went ahead.

 

[Azaad]

May the additional P-8I aircraft that get procured are more equipped for over land operations... heavy on EW/ELINT/COMINT & the AN/APY-10 radar modified for over land surveillance... becoming a true tri service platform.

Few years back DAC cleared purchase of additional 6 P-8I but it never went ahead.

All these will materialise now including 31 MQ-9 , 6 P-8I , more Apaches , Chinooks etc. In fact the agreement for the F-414 was also deliberately postponed so that Trump could take credit for it. Just hope we don't buy stuff which hampers our own industry like in case of Strykers , Javelins , etc.