Indo US Relations

[Prasad]

On the contrary I advocate for hitman style death squads for all anti India fugitives , no matter how Important they're to Americunt deep state. We should put the fear of god into these mother f#ckers head before they plan anti India activities.

We are a mid tier power.
While we all wish for what you are stating, our power projection is no where near to achieve that in a country like US.
We can pull it off in other countries with difficulty but never in US. They will never allow us to get away with it for obvious reasons.

 

[shade2]

We are a mid tier power.
While we all wish for what you are stating, our power projection is no where near to achieve that in a country like US.
We can pull it off in other countries with difficulty but never in US. They will never allow us to get away with it for obvious reasons.

It is not the question of mid tier power.

It is the matter of our dependencies on US whether it is of dhandho or defense gear.

Russkies in their kangal state today can also throw any of their US citizen enemies in America out of windows or give them some Polonium tea, US is also capable of doing the same in Russian territory.

But beyond tit-for-tat they have no leverage on Russkies.

 

[Prasad]

It is not the question of mid tier power.

It is the matter of our dependencies on US whether it is of dhandho or defense gear.

Russkies in their kangal state today can also throw any of their US citizen enemies in America out of windows or give them some Polonium tea, US is also capable of doing the same in Russian territory.

But beyond tit-for-tat they have no leverage on Russkies.

true but we are not russkies.

If we had their low population and the extraordinary resources they have, we could do the same.

 

[shade2]

true but we are not russkies.

If we had their low population and the extraordinary resources they have, we could do the same.

It's their resources + they have a functional MIC + they can import/smuggle whatever they want through their land border with China and Central Asian stans

We are surrounded by shitholes with small dick syndrome, China bullies us, MIC is just not there yet so we have to import and we don't have loads of those natural resources.

Baaki sab ka we can find a cure inshallah but as for oil, gas type resources idk what we will have to do to ensure supplies, Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany both got btfo in this area in WW2 as compared to allies

 

[hurrians]

US To Delist Indian Nuclear Entities From Restricted List To Boost Civil Nuclear Cooperation

The Indian entities that could be soon off the US entity list include the Indira Gandhi Atomic Research Centre and the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre.

zeenews.india.com

The level of drama done by lelis against 123 agreement and the kind of chest thumping by proponents of the agreement both were extreme, US main concern was so called proliferation and to keep indian program under surveillance, anyway let's hope this action leads to some meaningful cooperation .

"Additionally, after an interagency review, BIS also modified one existing entry on the Entity List, under the destination of India, by removing 3 entities within the entry. The removal of Indian entities Indian Rare Earths, Indira Gandhi Atomic Research Center (IGCAR), and Bhabha Atomic Research Center (BARC) will support U.S. foreign policy objectives by reducing barriers to advanced energy cooperation, including joint research and development and science and technology cooperation, towards shared energy security needs and goals. The United States and India share a commitment to advancing peaceful nuclear cooperation and associated research and development activities, with strengthened science and technology cooperation over the past several years that has benefitted both countries and their partner countries around the world."

Commerce Makes Revisions to the Entity List to Strengthen U.S. National Security | Bureau of Industry and Security

www.bis.gov

 

[Spacemarine]

This will hit hard on any AI related start ups in India, this is direct action on India to contain its corporate sector, and this policy cant be made now without getting approval from Trump admin.

India should start looking at alternatives and may be do a tactical integration with Chinese for same

https://www.financialexpress.com/life/technology-how-us-curbs-on-ai-chip-exports-can-hurt-india-3716211/

 

[shuturmurg]

This will hit hard on any AI related start ups in India, this is direct action on India to contain its corporate sector, and this policy cant be made now without getting approval from Trump admin.

India should start looking at alternatives and may be do a tactical integration with Chinese for same

https://www.financialexpress.com/life/technology-how-us-curbs-on-ai-chip-exports-can-hurt-india-3716211/

China doesn't design and manufacture cutting edge AI chips yet. Maybe in 5-10 years, but not yet. Moreover, if we tie up with China, we will be pushed from tier 2 to tier 3.

AI is transformational tech, whose implications we cannot even fully fathom at this point. For eg: My friend works at a company that does AI for semiconductor manufacturing. They are actually able to increase yield of semiconductors (that is % of semiconductors that are manufactured defect free) using AI.

AI is helping in new drug discovery, discovery of new materials for aerospace/space, anomalies in manufactured goods and chemicals. The applications are endless.

So, in a way AI is foundational technology similar to internet or electricity. US definitely wants to retain its lead, that's why this list.

Even the US allies that are not that close (portugal, phillipines, poland), are in tier 2.

 

[Spacemarine]

China doesn't design and manufacture cutting edge AI chips yet. Maybe in 5-10 years, but not yet. Moreover, if we tie up with China, we will be pushed from tier 2 to tier 3.

AI is transformational tech, whose implications we cannot even fully fathom at this point. For eg: My friend works at a company that does AI for semiconductor manufacturing. They are actually able to increase yield of semiconductors (that is % of semiconductors that are manufactured defect free) using AI.

AI is helping in new drug discovery, discovery of new materials for aerospace/space, anomalies in manufactured goods and chemicals. The applications are endless.

So, in a way AI is foundational technology similar to internet or electricity. US definitely wants to retain its lead, that's why this list.

Even the US allies that are not that close (portugal, phillipines, poland), are in tier 2.

View attachment 22255

This looks bad, India wont be able to make any significant strides in training machine learning models with these restrictions 50k is peanuts for the data we have for Tier 2 and Tier 3 is basically the same.

India needs to build tactical ties with Chinese on this for sure otherwise India will
Be left too far behind.

AI chips are no different than normal chips its just that for any AI related workload the processing is sent to dedicated chip.

This can actually restrict import of normal chips in future as all
Chips will
Come with dedicated AI processing modules with i. Few years.

India. Govt needs to raise this at highest of levels with Trump
Admin and understand its situation on this.

Chinese still are importing machining and tooling equipments from Europe, India needs to see how Indian Govt can do the same but this wont be efficient until we understand the skills required to assemble the machining parts to create chips

 

[shuturmurg]

This looks bad, India wont be able to make any significant strides in training machine learning models with these restrictions 50k is peanuts for the data we have for Tier 2 and Tier 3 is basically the same.

India needs to build tactical ties with Chinese on this for sure otherwise India will
Be left too far behind.

AI chips are no different than normal chips its just that for any AI related workload the processing is sent to dedicated chip.

This can actually restrict import of normal chips in future as all
Chips will
Come with dedicated AI processing modules with i. Few years.

India. Govt needs to raise this at highest of levels with Trump
Admin and understand its situation on this.

Chinese still are importing machining and tooling equipments from Europe, India needs to see how Indian Govt can do the same but this wont be efficient until we understand the skills required to assemble the machining parts to create chips

All design for advanced AI chips are owned by US companies (specially NVIDIA), they are manufactured in Taiwan (and some in Korea and Japan), most of the tooling is manufactured in EU and Japan and all the software for chip design and controlling tooling are made in US.

So, US has control of supply chain. At some point China might catch up, but there is some time to go. But if China catches up, then world will be split into 2 like cold war, and if India is non-aligned we will be fucked.

 

[Spacemarine]

All design for advanced AI chips are owned by US companies (specially NVIDIA), they are manufactured in Taiwan (and some in Korea and Japan), most of the tooling is manufactured in EU and Japan and all the software for chip design and controlling tooling are made in US.

So, US has control of supply chain. At some point China might catch up, but there is some time to go. But if China catches up, then world will be split into 2 like cold war, and if India is non-aligned we will be fucked.

Like I told u earlier there is no difference between normal and AI chips its just the workload for any AI related task is routed to dedicated module,

World is moving forward where a single chip will have these dedicated modules like Apple chips which has CPU, GPU and AI modules as part of single chip if this policy is not changed for India in future India will
Not be able to assemble any laptop or mobile phones leave alone setting up AI processing centres.

Either India needs to force Trump hand to change this if not possible go into tactical grouping of nations like BrIcs to circumvent this.

The chip manufacturing depends on machining tools from ASML they are generation ahead of everyone rest of software or packing etc is not core.

Chinese already hoarding ASML prior gen machining tools not just photolithography machines.

Chinese will be able to reverse engineer these machines in couple of years and sell these machines back to west India needs to play its part in this and its only possible if India forces its hands on either USA or Chinese supply chains

USA has better export controls than Chinese, India already imports some advanced machining tools from Chinese which USA has put shadow restrictions,

Something like this India needs to do beg borrow steal get into grouping with Chinese like BRICS or force USA hand,

India has already skipped modern industrial age cant skip AI which depends on chips

 

[shade2]

China doesn't design and manufacture cutting edge AI chips yet. Maybe in 5-10 years, but not yet. Moreover, if we tie up with China, we will be pushed from tier 2 to tier 3.

AI is transformational tech, whose implications we cannot even fully fathom at this point. For eg: My friend works at a company that does AI for semiconductor manufacturing. They are actually able to increase yield of semiconductors (that is % of semiconductors that are manufactured defect free) using AI.

AI is helping in new drug discovery, discovery of new materials for aerospace/space, anomalies in manufactured goods and chemicals. The applications are endless.

So, in a way AI is foundational technology similar to internet or electricity. US definitely wants to retain its lead, that's why this list.

Even the US allies that are not that close (portugal, phillipines, poland), are in tier 2.

View attachment 22255

For national security purposes GPUs and ASICs can be smuggled in.
For Dhandho purposes we are fucked, since our Dhandhos depend on bijness from white man

Alternatively we could start development for ASICs instead of Nvidia GPU, custom made for certain AI workloads but which company has that type of scale here?

 

[DancingPeacock]

For national security purposes GPUs and ASICs can be smuggled in.
For Dhandho purposes we are fucked, since our Dhandhos depend on bijness from white man

Alternatively we could start development for ASICs instead of Nvidia GPU, custom made for certain AI workloads but which company has that type of scale here?

Why is everyone thinking that we are gonna be completely shackled? Because anything strategic in nature- like AI for Military Projects etc....they can just do maxxing on GPUs on older nodes. Why is it even a question? Gormint atmost need more resources to pump them. It isn't like commerical area where cost and efficiency is an important factor. We are getting a fab in Gujarat and the SCL Lab itself is gonna be upgraded soon. The chinks built a world beating super computer on 28nm node.

I believe GPU design is not gonna be limiting factor for us.

 

[Spacemarine]

Why is everyone thinking that we are gonna be completely shackled? Because anything strategic in nature- like AI for Military Projects etc....they can just do maxxing on GPUs on older nodes. Why is it even a question? Gormint atmost need more resources to pump them. It isn't like commerical area where cost and efficiency is an important factor. We are getting a fab in Gujarat and the SCL Lab itself is gonna be upgraded soon. The chinks built a world beating super computer on 28nm node.

I believe GPU design is not gonna be limiting factor for us.

Efficiency is key in AI processing, the electricity demand is estimated to be as high as AC revolution in major countries like USA and China.

The crunching numbers from these chips to train generations of models will cost GWs of energy if India is serious in this game.

 

[Anants]

Efficiency is key in AI processing, the electricity demand is estimated to be as high as AC revolution in major countries like USA and China.

The crunching numbers from these chips to train generations of models will cost GWs of energy if India is serious in this game.

Yes for now. As years go by, efficiency will increase and energy consumption decrease. Remember room size vaccum operated building sized computers which led to dimming of city lights as they operated in early 50's and 60's? We are on the same kind of stage with AI processing. As quantum computers get realised, we shall see similar kind of greater revolution.

I just hope research on quantum chips get consistent enought funding with clear goals for next 30 years.

 

[Spacemarine]

Yes for now. As years go by, efficiency will increase and energy consumption decrease. Remember room size vaccum operated building sized computers which led to dimming of city lights as they operated in early 50's and 60's? We are on the same kind of stage with AI processing. As quantum computers get realised, we shall see similar kind of greater revolution.

I just hope research on quantum chips get consistent enought funding with clear goals for next 30 years.

A efficient and workable quantum computer is decades away for now.

And by no means they are energy efficient also, they require cryogenics basically absolute zero degree and these are babies for now may be in future they will find a way but superconductors operate only in absolute zero unlike semiconductors

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Yes for now. As years go by, efficiency will increase and energy consumption decrease. Remember room size vaccum operated building sized computers which led to dimming of city lights as they operated in early 50's and 60's? We are on the same kind of stage with AI processing. As quantum computers get realised, we shall see similar kind of greater revolution.

I just hope research on quantum chips get consistent enought funding with clear goals for next 30 years.

Quantum computing is cool, but overstated. its application is quite limited actually and most of the interest is in cryptography. Because quantum computing isnt some magic that lets u increase flop speed by 1000 fold and make every calculation take 1 nano-second. Its basically a form of computing where it can process 'every value of x' simultaneously instead of sequentially going through ' ok now x= 1, lets compute, got result, not x = 2, lets compute, got result, etc etc' of linear computing.
This is basically useful when x can hold 1 trillion possible values. aka, a cypher for cryptopgrahy - be it a cypher for a bank transaction or paypal.
Basically, even if its year 2100 and you go to local apple shop to buy iQauntum or some marketing crap for apples quantum compooter, you still wont notice any difference from normie compooter for pretty much everything u do with a compooter, unless u r a hacker trying to hack email passcodes or bank password.

 

[hurrians]

Conspiracy theories about the US deep state destabilising India are bunkum

Conspiracy theories regarding a deep state destabilising India are undermined by strong US-India relations in defense and trade. The allegations reflect India's reluctance to address internal issues such as corruption and unpopular governance. The theories divert attention from actual...

m.economictimes.com

The deep state is rattled, anyway chinese will help us in AI as they helped us with apple tools / technician and the famous german tunnel boring machine conversation captured on record in some metro/train, the Chinese are there to help us as is evident by their posture on border since lehru times and most recently repeated with moodiji.

 

[Anants]

Quantum computing is cool, but overstated. its application is quite limited actually and most of the interest is in cryptography. Because quantum computing isnt some magic that lets u increase flop speed by 1000 fold and make every calculation take 1 nano-second. Its basically a form of computing where it can process 'every value of x' simultaneously instead of sequentially going through ' ok now x= 1, lets compute, got result, not x = 2, lets compute, got result, etc etc' of linear computing.
This is basically useful when x can hold 1 trillion possible values. aka, a cypher for cryptopgrahy - be it a cypher for a bank transaction or paypal.
Basically, even if its year 2100 and you go to local apple shop to buy iQauntum or some marketing crap for apples quantum compooter, you still wont notice any difference from normie compooter for pretty much everything u do with a compooter, unless u r a hacker trying to hack email passcodes or bank password.

Quantum computing has two specific use cases where active research is seem to be going on as of now

Cryptography
AI (Quantum Machine Learning and Quantum Parallelism: They shall be making AI4w processing much fast in vertain areas like pattern recognition, data classification. .)

Now given quantum computers itself is something which are still under development, you will see more papers on its application as research proceeds.

And human always come up with lousy applications to consume with whatever extra CPU cycles new chip advancement brings.

 

[Miss Firing]

Conspiracy theories about the US deep state destabilising India are bunkum

Conspiracy theories regarding a deep state destabilising India are undermined by strong US-India relations in defense and trade. The allegations reflect India's reluctance to address internal issues such as corruption and unpopular governance. The theories divert attention from actual...

m.economictimes.com

The deep state is rattled, anyway chinese will help us in AI as they helped us with apple tools / technician and the famous german tunnel boring machine conversation captured on record in some metro/train, the Chinese are there to help us as is evident by their posture on border since lehru times and most recently repeated with moodiji.

"Everything is a conspiracy theory"



LOL.... The fact is that US requires a vassalized India that it can use for its global policy objectives.

 

[Spacemarine]

Quantum computing is cool, but overstated. its application is quite limited actually and most of the interest is in cryptography. Because quantum computing isnt some magic that lets u increase flop speed by 1000 fold and make every calculation take 1 nano-second. Its basically a form of computing where it can process 'every value of x' simultaneously instead of sequentially going through ' ok now x= 1, lets compute, got result, not x = 2, lets compute, got result, etc etc' of linear computing.
This is basically useful when x can hold 1 trillion possible values. aka, a cypher for cryptopgrahy - be it a cypher for a bank transaction or paypal.
Basically, even if its year 2100 and you go to local apple shop to buy iQauntum or some marketing crap for apples quantum compooter, you still wont notice any difference from normie compooter for pretty much everything u do with a compooter, unless u r a hacker trying to hack email passcodes or bank password.

Quantum Computing if ever comes to a device like smartphones will bring path breaking discoveries in metallurgy , medicines and of-course AI.

At the end almost all of problems are resolved by continuous verification and validations.

Its just not cryptography thats the initial by product only.

In case a Quantum computers we get in today’s world(not talking about the babies IBM, Googles of world are experimenting right now with few cubits)

You will see materials as thin as human hairs able to work in extreme temperatures and can pick hundreds of tons, medicines which are highly advanced(kind of jaddi booties of old, pretty sure wherever those plants exists are basically quantim computers only working on room temperature)

Quantum computers are much more a bigger game than AI can ever be