Kaveri Engine

[Spitfire IX]

We now have a material knowledge and capability to make a Kaveri engine that can compete with f404 on equal terms(except lifespan, Kaveri will 5000+ hours, while f404 will be 6000+hours).
The problem is, f404 are already "On order" for tejas deal has been signed years ago.
And Kaveri with afterburner still hasn't been on tejas for testing.
But its having this capability and confidence that caused GTRE to request the government to provide a tejas to test the improve engine.

DRDO and GTRE to Integrate Dry Kaveri Engine Derivative into LCA-Tejas Trainer Aircraft – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Though so far don't know if they will get it.

Interesting.

The governments of India over 20+ years have failed to invest in a flying testbed. Is such a tool a requirement to developing an engine? Since the Russian, American, British and French OEM's test their engines on flying testbeds why did India not feel it necessary to get itself one? It would not be stuck where it is now, would it?

But we are where we are. Where India has been since it started: ill equipped to develop a jet engine.

If dry Kaveri were certified, that could be used in Tejas, couldn't it, for testing purposes? Can you flight test an uncertified wet Kaveri in a single engined-aircraft?

 

[BON PLAN]

Can't we replace ge f 404, when their life cycle of ends in future ?, a fighter jet goes through multiple engines in life.

Not really. You can repare the engine by replacing some used parts. Not impossible that at the end all the components have been replaced at least one time....

 

[randombully]

Not really. You can repare the engine by replacing some used parts.

I'm talking about replacing ge404 IN20 with wet Kaveri after 6000 or more so life cycle of ge404 engine ends.

 

[BON PLAN]

I'm talking about replacing ge404 IN20 with wet Kaveri after 6000 or more so life cycle of ge404 engine ends.

IAF will never agree to replace an engine with AB with another without.
I add that some FBW problems may occur because of a deep center of gravity change.

 

[JTP]

1400 or 1600 kg ?
The M53-5 Snecma engine is a 90Kn engine and weight 1500 kg more or less, so Kaveri may be in the M53 league.
Not a world class, but not a crap.

Kaveri is currently crap due to its thrust:weight. M88 is a much more advanced. It is below Rolls Royce and American engines but still world class. The current iteration of Kaveri that DRDO is working on may just work for Kaveri if it matures in the next 5-6 years as it can be used for first engine replacement.

However, my previous post was in relation to some retired IAF personnel talking nonsense on the news channel.

 

[JTP]

Gawd ! 2 to 3 years, Will I ever be alive to see Kaveri flying and being productized ? Pardon the pessimism...

Your pessimism is totally understood. Its been 20+ years without any clear end to the tunnel

 

[Nutcracker]

IAF will never agree to replace an engine with AB with another without.
I add that some FBW problems may occur because of a deep center of gravity change.

But first replacement cycle of ge404 will fall around 2030 for early produced MK1 jets. AB for Kaveri is already under fabrication under Aerospace.

 

[BON PLAN]

It is below Rolls Royce and American engines but still world class.

Not really.
Between Rolls Royce and GE / PW instead :
The EJ200 is a "modern version" of M53 : same thrust, same global config (an easy one). lighter thanks to new materials.
M88 is more refined, and beeing smaller is a harder task to fix.

Don't remember that M88, in the early 90's had the higher turbine temperature of all (1850°K). A must for such a small engine.
Since it evolved with some R&D efforts (Turenne 1 and 2)

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

Midhani Forges Ahead: Introducing SN-41, a Superalloy Marvel – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Paras.Sharma]

Looks like improved cold section material.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Midhani Forges Ahead: Introducing SN-41, a Superalloy Marvel – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Copy the article here.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

Copy the article here.

you mean, copy and paste full article material here? why? idrw became unreachable or what?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

you mean, copy and paste full article material here? why? idrw became unreachable or what?

URLs would be deleted.

Articles worth reading may be copy paste on forum with source to mentioned credits.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

 

[Asmodeus]

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/xnba4gvtDDY?si=SmxI02LX-2LkIZ34

He rants about LRAShM in the start but good info..

 

[Psacha123]

Good news on Kaveri.

A dry thrust of 49-51kN and a plan to integrate to a 73-75kN with afterburner may not sound impressive, but using it for UAV applications building on it and commit to a Kaveri 2.0 for future sounds like a plan!

Gov should not give up on this, and go all in. If needed take help of the French or Ruskies by clubbing it with some other military deal.


View: https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1871006619481604373?s=46

 

[Azaad]

Good news on Kaveri.

A dry thrust of 49-51kN and a plan to integrate to a 73-75kN with afterburner may not sound impressive, but using it for UAV applications building on it and commit to a Kaveri 2.0 for future sounds like a plan!

Gov should not give up on this, and go all in. If needed take help of the French or Ruskies by clubbing it with some other military deal.


View: https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1871006619481604373?s=46

Apparently it had been audited by SAFRAN & cleared for further trials , read FTB trials , in 2018 itself. It's only now after the delays in delivery by GE of its F-404 TF for the Mk-1a program , that the MoD / GoI has had a rude awakening & plans to test & certify the Kaveri took top priority.

For all that yapping about Atma Nirbharta , it tells you how seriously this administration actually takes the issue. Also another example why Rajnath Singh like his predecessor NS is a placement holder for the position of the Raksha Mantri.

One sorely misses MP in that position just as one wonders in a nation of 1.5 billion can't the BJP or Modi find one suitable person for the job ?

 

[Anants]

Apparently it had been audited by SAFRAN & cleared for further trials , read FTB trials , in 2018 itself. It's only now after the delays in delivery by GE of its F-404 TF for the Mk-1a program , that the MoD / GoI has had a rude awakening & plans to test & certify the Kaveri took top priority.

For all that yapping about Atma Nirbharta , it tells you how seriously this administration actually takes the issue. Also another example why Rajnath Singh like his predecessor NS is a placement holder for the position of the Raksha Mantri.

One sorely misses MP in that position just as one wonders in a nation of 1.5 billion can't the BJP or Modi find one suitable person for the job ?

I had same thoughts as you. So I decided to get timeline summarized for clear picture:

Year	Event/Phase	Dry Thrust	Wet Thrust	Details	Source
2009	Ground Test Achievements	46 kN	65 kN	Demonstrated initial thrust during ground tests, below requirements for HAL Tejas.	Ajai Shukla
2010	Flying Test Bed (FTB) Trials in Russia	49 kN	70 kN	Conducted 27 test flights; achieved 12 km altitude, 0.7 Mach speed.	Livefist Defence
2012	Adaptation for Unmanned Aircraft	49 kN	N/A	Focus shifted to developing a "Kaveri-Dry" variant for UCAVs.	Ajai Shukla
2022–2023	High-Altitude Tests in Russia	48.5 kN	N/A	Confirmed reliability during high-altitude trials; focus on DRDO Ghatak UCAV program.	Janes

So not sure what's new in idrw report? What have we established which was not established before?

 

[Azaad]

I had same thoughts as you. So I decided to get timeline summarized for clear picture:

Year	Event/Phase	Dry Thrust	Wet Thrust	Details	Source
2009	Ground Test Achievements	46 kN	65 kN	Demonstrated initial thrust during ground tests, below requirements for HAL Tejas.	Ajai Shukla
2010	Flying Test Bed (FTB) Trials in Russia	49 kN	70 kN	Conducted 27 test flights; achieved 12 km altitude, 0.7 Mach speed.	Livefist Defence
2012	Adaptation for Unmanned Aircraft	49 kN	N/A	Focus shifted to developing a "Kaveri-Dry" variant for UCAVs.	Ajai Shukla
2022–2023	High-Altitude Tests in Russia	48.5 kN	N/A	Confirmed reliability during high-altitude trials; focus on DRDO Ghatak UCAV program.	Janes

So not sure what's new in idrw report? What have we established which was not established before?

You missed the auditing by SAFRAN along with the offer for "technical consultancy " as part of the offsets for the 36 nos Rafales we procured from France in the time period between 2016-19.

They also offered the core of the M-88 TF for an amount the MoD deemed too obscene . Regardless it was the same offer they extended nearly a decade ago to GTRE which IAF shot down.

 

[TopWatcher]

You missed the auditing by SAFRAN along with the offer for "technical consultancy " as part of the offsets for the 36 nos Rafales we procured from France in the time period between 2016-19.

They also offered the core of the M-88 TF for an amount the MoD deemed too obscene . Regardless it was the same offer they extended nearly a decade ago to GTRE which IAF shot down.

I think GE sanctions comes as a good for us. Atleast it awakens the karveri. Kahin na kahin pahuch hi jayenge.