NETRA AEW&Cs Family.

[Hari Sud]

India has waited too long for these AEW&C. It is DRDO which has been slow and Military’s quality requirements which prevents efficient use of available resources. They want first edition to be at par with the foreign imports. Quality comes in slow degrees as experience is gained. Our military does not believe in it. They want exactly what they said or nothing else but imports.

 

[Blademaster]

India has waited too long for these AEW&C. It is DRDO which has been slow and Military’s quality requirements which prevents efficient use of available resources. They want first edition to be at par with the foreign imports. Quality comes in slow degrees as experience is gained. Our military does not believe in it. They want exactly what they said or nothing else but imports.

Yes but they also need to handhold and encourage the development and honor its promises of buying the products and keep developing the products until they get what they want. You don’t see US saying to its defense companies “give us what we want or we get imports”. They keep working at the issues until they get what they want.

 

[haldilal]

 

[Azaad]

View: https://youtu.be/rwTEk3PezOM?si=XWGO_Z5b_igy5jJ0

 

[Azaad]

It's would most likely be a Airbus A330 based Netra Mk 3, with a new 4D radar, instead of the current 3D Radar present they were earlier designed with

Basically this but with a new 4D radar.
View attachment 10788

Also I don't think it would be a particularly difficult project given the studies of this variant were already near completion,
All they need to do right now is to pickup this old project and just rework the radar and leave everything else as it is because they themselves had already taken care of everything else earlier.

View attachment 10789
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View attachment 10792

The issue isn't merely the development or maturity of the tech though that too is an important consideration. It's more to do with the selection of the aircraft. This has been going on since nearly 2 decades.

In between things reached such a stage that the IAF conflated the requirements for Refuellers & AWACS with the same aircraft with suitable modifications were supposed to function as both.

In any case once this proposal goes thru the DAC by the time the response to RFI comes in , analysis is done , the RFP goes out followed by negotiations & releasing the order to receiving possession of it will easily take 6-8 years more so since the Netra Mk-1a & Mk-2 is ongoing which means this isn't deemed important.

Then comes the actual ITC. I'm being optimistic by mentioning the delivery period as a decade.

 

[Hari Sud]

Confusing; how many AEW&CS we already have including Israeli AWACS? How many more including the current RFI for six and how many more after these six to be inducted?

Need a clear answer.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Netra AEW&C(I) or Netra Mk 3 details from a older Technology Focus Documents

 

[Fatalis]

IAF looking at 12 early warning aircraft under two different programmes

Indian Air Force seeks to procure 12 AEW&C aircraft, including 6 Embraer-based and 6 Airbus-based systems, to enhance operational capabilities.

www.thehindu.com

 

[samsaptaka]

View: https://youtu.be/rwTEk3PezOM?si=XWGO_Z5b_igy5jJ0

Misleading title. IAF won't get anything anytime soon given the glacial pace of DAC approval CAG approval, AoN , haggling over price, contract signing...(list goes on and on...) until finally after 10yrs they might , just might get maybe 3 outdated AWACS, only to repeat the same circus all over again

J


IAF Jurnails rejected Kaveri with Snecma core for LCA and actively took part in the selection of GE.

Sauce ?

 

[Hari Sud]

Misleading title. IAF won't get anything anytime soon given the glacial pace of DAC approval CAG approval, AoN , haggling over price, contract signing...(list goes on and on...) until finally after 10yrs they might , just might get maybe 3 outdated AWACS, only to repeat the same circus all over again


Sauce ?

BS

 

[Nutcracker]

Misleading title. IAF won't get anything anytime soon given the glacial pace of DAC approval CAG approval, AoN , haggling over price, contract signing...(list goes on and on...) until finally after 10yrs they might , just might get maybe 3 outdated AWACS, only to repeat the same circus all over again


Sauce ?

IAF fumes over DRDO's attempts to resurrect Kaveri

IAF feels DRDO fronting for French engine, citing 'joint development'.

news.rediff.com

 

[samsaptaka]

IAF fumes over DRDO's attempts to resurrect Kaveri

IAF feels DRDO fronting for French engine, citing 'joint development'.

news.rediff.com

Seems like well founded concerns of IAF....but for this GoI only is to be blamed since for 20yrs the kaveri project was underfunded and they could not develop any meaningful engine. So IAF not trusting DRDO.or GTRE babus is understandable. Also don't forget GTRE is hardly a premier research institute, its filled with 9 to 5 unkils and aunties like any PSU, so its a huge clusterfk and in the end Bharaths defence as a country is compromised

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Netra Mk 2 brochure from Aero India 2023

 

[Hanubhisma]

Netra Mk 2 brochure from Aero India 2023
View attachment 35992
View attachment 35993
View attachment 35994

View attachment 35997

Only 6 hours?? Need to increase it to 10 hours minimum. They should have gone for the A330 platform because it gives them longer range, more hours on standby, more electrical power to the array, and more detection range, and more rooms to allow for 3 shift 24 with 8 hour rotation crews. That way, the platform can stay onboard for at least 10 hours and longer with refueling.

If I was GoI, I would have bought 12 A330 platforms for AEW and 45 tankers. This will allow IAF to monitor 2.5 battle fronts.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Only 6 hours?? Need to increase it to 10 hours minimum. They should have gone for the A330 platform because it gives them longer range, more hours on standby, more electrical power to the array, and more detection range, and more rooms to allow for 3 shift 24 with 8 hour rotation crews. That way, the platform can stay onboard for at least 10 hours and longer with refueling.

If I was GoI, I would have bought 12 A330 platforms for AEW and 45 tankers. This will allow IAF to monitor 2.5 battle fronts.

IMO both these solutions would need a bunch of re-engineering, since neither has ever been used as an AWACs before.

Why not the 767? Easier certification IG, existing electrical power upgrades for engines.

 

[liberalredditor]

If they wanted a320 based platform, they should have gone for existing a321LR variant which would give much more range and efficiency
Againt cost cutting

Next time for the 360 degree radar, pls go for a330 neo or a350-800

 

[redpanda]

So is there any definite timeline for these two projects? As far as I remember the 12 AWACs, IAF is considering to acquire is part two different projects.

 

[silentassassin265]

So is there any definite timeline for these two projects? As far as I remember the 12 AWACs, IAF is considering to acquire is part two different projects.

No timeline is given or known, we are just operating with 6 awacs right now

 

[Kapil]

IAF should have asked for more Embraer ERJ 145 based Nethra Mk1.
First they waited for DRDO Chapati on top of a Airbus A330.
Then they realised the cost is nearly $400-500M for a single one basis the order volumes and budget they have.
So they said let's buy more of Israeli Phalcom on IL-76. The vendors(both Russia and Israel) quoted rates which were 2-3 times of the first lot(due to inflation).
Then IAF realised they can't afford a Chapati, either on A330 or IL-76, so let's buy Nethra but ask for more changes and longer loitering time.
Someone decided 2nd hand A320s will do so Nethra Mk2 was born.
Then they woke up post Balakot and decided Nethra Mk1 is too good so let's order more Mk1 as well. This then became Mk1A.

Man, whichever way you look at it, it's f*ed up.
We should have gone for 9-12 Mk1 when it was successfully handed over and operated.

BTW - ERJ-145 has aerial refueling to extend time on station.

But no, we had awesome brains(even CDS level guys) saying buying in short numbers is good as they can keep getting latest versions with every lot. So we have 3 Phalcons and 3 Nethra.

If Nethra Mk2 is the way forward, why don't we max out on the orders? Order 15-18 of them basis A320s from 2nd hand market. But we somehow are masters in creating a zoo.

Here is what we will possibly have 10yrs from now :
1. Nethra Mk1 - 3 on ERJ-145
2. Nethra Mk1A - 6 on ERJ-145(2nd hand)
3. Nethra Mk2 - 6 on A320(2nd hand)
4. Phalcon - 3 on IL-76
5. Nethra XYZ Chapati -3 or 6 on A330


Total 21-24, 4 different systems based on 4 different platforms(assuming older Mk1 will be upgraded to Mk2 level electronics).
Total

 

[silentassassin265]

IAF should have asked for more Embraer ERJ 145 based Nethra Mk1.
First they waited for DRDO Chapati on top of a Airbus A330.
Then they realised the cost is nearly $400-500M for a single one basis the order volumes and budget they have.
So they said let's buy more of Israeli Phalcom on IL-76. The vendors(both Russia and Israel) quoted rates which were 2-3 times of the first lot(due to inflation).
Then IAF realised they can't afford a Chapati, either on A330 or IL-76, so let's buy Nethra but ask for more changes and longer loitering time.
Someone decided 2nd hand A320s will do so Nethra Mk2 was born.
Then they woke up post Balakot and decided Nethra Mk1 is too good so let's order more Mk1 as well. This then became Mk1A.

Man, whichever way you look at it, it's f*ed up.
We should have gone for 9-12 Mk1 when it was successfully handed over and operated.

BTW - ERJ-145 has aerial refueling to extend time on station.

But no, we had awesome brains(even CDS level guys) saying buying in short numbers is good as they can keep getting latest versions with every lot. So we have 3 Phalcons and 3 Nethra.

If Nethra Mk2 is the way forward, why don't we max out on the orders? Order 15-18 of them basis A320s from 2nd hand market. But we somehow are masters in creating a zoo.

Here is what we will possibly have 10yrs from now :
1. Nethra Mk1 - 3 on ERJ-145
2. Nethra Mk1A - 6 on ERJ-145(2nd hand)
3. Nethra Mk2 - 6 on A320(2nd hand)
4. Phalcon - 3 on IL-76
5. Nethra XYZ Chapati -3 or 6 on A330


Total 21-24, 4 different systems based on 4 different platforms(assuming older Mk1 will be upgraded to Mk2 level electronics).
Total

At this point no more awacs will arrive quickly.
If we are being forced to buy burgerican weapons we should just buy 5 to 6 e3 awacs that they are retiring as a stop gap solution.