Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (68 Viewers)

[shade2]

Integration with our own network and datalink has to be done despite being 36 being in service
There is no such clause
Point is IAF were in their dreams and didn't follow up anything and as a result Dassault being awasarwadi didn't do anything this things getting piled up

All this shit whatever happened is due to IAF lethargic attitude and Dassault taking benefits due to this

This is not yeh first case where IAF lethargic attitude being displayed
Point is we actually never used a new platform at war within few years of induction
If we would have faced such situation then we would be cursing every platform from su-30 to mig-29 to mirages

Few capabilities were absent even in mkis even till 2015

Meanwhile, bosses of the same organization in public make statements like "This is not Mk1a" and then their fans on twitter are like "Yes, he is correct, Where is Astra mk1 test?"
Meanwhile the first "Su30s" apparently didn't even have their trademark canards installed

Different standards for Imported wunderwaffe vs deshi maal.


Truly I believe the Arms Embargoes after Tiananmen Square massacre were a blessing in disguise for Chinkus

You won't believe the amount of subsystems they used to import from the West before that, without the embargo they'd be like us today, maybe Taiwan also would be out of their grasp.

 

[Numero]

 

[ezsasa]

View attachment 42386

their own state broadcaster France24 was undermining rafale.

and author of that France24 piece is india born leela jacinto , state broadcaster publishing "analysis" against their own defence industry.

 

[redpanda]

We can't use Meteor to it's "fullest potential" because Rafale isn't integrated with IACCS as per Gessler here.

So why did they want to buy more all these years?

Did French say they will allow integration if we buy 100 more planes?

I think @randombully wrote something about this a few pages back.

 

[redpanda]

View: https://x.com/FinestYew/status/1941759921160430048

IAF chap would just say it's integrated to the Rafale. Because if parthu is right, it is fully integrated to it. But issue is data link. Maybe there is some issue with the translation layer or whatever. And obviously they can't do that to foreign vendor because that would make MEA go mad at them for jeopardizing international relationship between two countries.

 

[redpanda]

You will never see any of our forces ever scolding any foreign vendor publically. Strict action like banning and financially penalties will be there. But such scolding can only be done to domestic players because they are "apne ghar ke log, seh lenge". But if you do that with foreign vendors, it will trigger their governments. Which in turn will trigger our MEA, and they will complain to MoD and they will give the forces some scolding of their own.

 

[RocketMan]

No, don't change the name.
It will be narrative war gold.

Imagine the innuendos and puns

 

[shade2]

Relevant tweet on why Govt isn't revealing any losses.

One thing interesting is you have uniformed folks like the CDS himself and that Navy wala defense attache in Indonesia saying there are losses but not specifying anything.


View: https://x.com/KanwalSibal/status/1939690385367773464

=====================================================================
The government knows what our losses are. The issue is how it serves our national interest to publicise them in the international context.
Combined Western and Pakistani efforts are to keep the focus on Indian losses and not those of Pakistan. (At the centre is our purported Rafale loss and its link to opposition led attacks on government for the purchase of Rafales).
Pakistan’s credibility as an instrument to keep India in check has to be preserved. The reputation of its armed forces which are seen as guarantors of its unity has to be preserved too.
Simultaneously, India’s military stature must not be boosted. The profile of a pacific minded militarily dependent India is preferred.
The West has worked to maintain a strategic balance in the subcontinent. That legacy is very strong and is difficult to disown. India is difficult to handle and while a rising India has to be engaged and economic opportunities exploited some pressure points have to be maintained.
This is part of a hegemonic mindset. Other countries also do not reveal their military losses unless evidence is already available publicly.
Iran claims it has downed upto three F 35s. US/ Israel are silent.There is internal controversy over the effectiveness of US strikes on Iranian nuclear sites which the Administration wants to scotch.
It is under no pressure to reveal the “truth”publicly.Israel imposed stringent censorship on domestic and international media on reporting its losses.
It is not officially clarifying matters despite Iran’s claims and media reports and speculation. Even Germany is suppressing any information on the blowing up of Nord Stream 2, its own asset, despite widespread international speculation.
UK’s F35 is stranded in Kerala for a couple of weeks and many damaging stories are appearing on social media. UK is not revealing the real reason.
Look at the CENTCOM chief saying Pak extends phenomenal cooperation in counter- terrorism, and this after Pahalgam, and Trump wanting to mediate on Kashmir.
This thinking requires an undefeated Pakistan
.Unfortunately, in our polarised politics the issue of our losses has become a tool for the opposition to attack the government, unmindful of the external impact of this domestic politicking. Why should we do self- damaging PR for Pakistan, sundry Western lobbies and Chinese weaponry.
=====================================================================

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

I think in a democracy we must trust our population. There is no point in hiding the losses now. Govt. should come clean. OP. Sindoor is practically over. So, witholding losses is no longer subject to operational constraints.

I will really prefer it if the government make public the full operation. Damages we inflicted on enemy, damages we incurred and why we incurred them.

A pure frank discussion must happen. Secrecy only serves the Raybandhaaris and import lobby.

 

[redpanda]

I think in a democracy we must trust our population. There is no point in hiding the losses now. Govt. should come clean. OP. Sindoor is practically over. So, witholding losses is no longer subject to operational constraints.

I will really prefer it if the government make public the full operation. Damages we inflicted on enemy, damages we incurred and why we incurred them.

A pure frank discussion must happen. Secrecy only serves the Raybandhaaris and import lobby.

It's the not the public. It's the retarded opposition. They will exaggerate, repeat Pakistani points and will try to demoralise the public. Revealing everything openly when your opponent is not doing it, also makes you go through a lot of problems. Usual suspect would go above and beyond to declare your efforts as failure even if only some 1 aircraft might have crashed somewhere or some CIWS system had not worked properly somewhere else. All that would be good, if our opposition was into good faith discussion. But they love to toe the Pakistani line more than Indian.

So the government will release the report only when everything will cool down..

 

[vampyrbladez]

I think in a democracy we must trust our population. There is no point in hiding the losses now. Govt. should come clean. OP. Sindoor is practically over. So, witholding losses is no longer subject to operational constraints.

I will really prefer it if the government make public the full operation. Damages we inflicted on enemy, damages we incurred and why we incurred them.

A pure frank discussion must happen. Secrecy only serves the Raybandhaaris and import lobby.

Everyone can make an educated guess regarding losses because Western Media and OSINT have already given a fairly accurate picture.

The French least bothered about a Rafale loss in Bhatinda because they know they will get orders for 40-54 more Rafales by GoI by 2026-27 due to TATA joining hands.

They also have the 26 Rafale M naval order. Meanwhile strike and penetration performance has shocked US because this affects sales of F 16 and F 15.

Given the RoE limitations (MEA chutiy@$ looking at you), losses if any are extremely minimal (<5 and >1, find mean) whereas Pakistanis are still in shock that their entire length and breadth can be targetted by us at will for punitive strikes.

India should not reveal anything if the otherside won't reveal their aerial losses (7-10th May 2025) which is slightly higher than ours.

The thing is that higher up the escalation ladder we go the better it is for India.

 

[Knowitall]

People here arguing about losses don’t understand how moronic this govt is regarding national international and SM handling.

It makes no sense that 2 months after op sindoor we still don't have any report on Pakistani losses.

The least you could have done was release a full fledged report on PAF losses and call it day as they seethe everywhere. Instead the brass is busy giving contradictory statements while praising the PAF.

What a joke.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

It's the not the public. It's the retarded opposition. They will exaggerate, repeat Pakistani points and will try to demoralise the public. Revealing everything openly when your opponent is not doing it, also makes you go through a lot of problems. Usual suspect would go above and beyond to declare your efforts as failure even if only some 1 aircraft might have crashed somewhere or some CIWS system had not worked properly somewhere else. All that would be good, if our opposition was into good faith discussion. But they love to toe the Pakistani line more than Indian.

So the government will release the report only when everything will cool down..

Just because opposition will try to demoralize the population is not a good enough reason for running away from public debate. Let opposition try to misconstrue. Let our side attempt to debunk them. In end our population will be more informed.

Also, I don't believe opposition will get much traction. People have seen missile strikes in Israel. They have seen massive material losses suffered by Russia. Also, Today people have much more resources to access and unearth relevant information. So, truth will eventually come out.

Remember, Didn't pakistan already tried to win narrative war? Where is its standing now? The dust has settled and everyone is recognizing Indian operational success.

So, all in all, I believe its perfect time to release full operational report to the public. Tell the public. What we hit? Why we hit? What we damaged? What we lost? Lay it bare. Let public arrive at a consensus.

 

[redpanda]

Just because opposition will try to demoralize the population is not a good enough reason for running away from public debate. Let opposition try to misconstrue. Let our side attempt to debunk them. In end our population will be more informed.

Also, I don't believe opposition will get much traction. People have seen missile strikes in Israel. They have seen massive material losses suffered by Russia. Also, Today people have much more resources to access and unearth relevant information. So, truth will eventually come out.

Remember, Didn't pakistan already tried to win narrative war? Where is its standing now? The dust has settled and everyone is recognizing Indian operational success.

So, all in all, I believe its perfect time to release full operational report to the public. Tell the public. What we hit? Why we hit? What we damaged? What we lost? Lay it bare. Let public arrive at a consensus.

I don’t believe the government intends to hide the details forever. It’s more likely that they simply don’t think this is the right time to release the full report of the operation. The situation is still tense, and they may be waiting for things to cool down. If the goal was complete secrecy, we wouldn’t be seeing the CDS or Army personnel acknowledging our losses, even if only in vague terms.

The government likely has its own internal assessments, considering strategic, political, and geopolitical factors—and based on those, they’ve concluded that a full disclosure at this stage may not be appropriate. We need to have some patience.

In my view, public debates over the issue are unlikely to significantly influence actual military or strategic decisions. At best, such discussions may affect internal politics. The Ministry of Defence and each branch of the armed forces already have mechanisms in place to assess what went right and what didn’t. They're likely addressing those gaps through emergency procurements and other corrective measures.

 

[ezsasa]

Just because opposition will try to demoralize the population is not a good enough reason for running away from public debate. Let opposition try to misconstrue. Let our side attempt to debunk them. In end our population will be more informed.

Also, I don't believe opposition will get much traction. People have seen missile strikes in Israel. They have seen massive material losses suffered by Russia. Also, Today people have much more resources to access and unearth relevant information. So, truth will eventually come out.

Remember, Didn't pakistan already tried to win narrative war? Where is its standing now? The dust has settled and everyone is recognizing Indian operational success.

So, all in all, I believe its perfect time to release full operational report to the public. Tell the public. What we hit? Why we hit? What we damaged? What we lost? Lay it bare. Let public arrive at a consensus.

FYI, military does not serve the gormint, they serve the Indian state, The president is their commander in chief. administrative matters are handled by gormint on behalf of the president.

Indian military is under no obligation to make anything public, public is on need to know basis on matters related to military, only to the extent of info they want to make public.

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1941893818888196314

Le Sauce :- https://www.avion-chasse.fr/sindoor-eric-trappier-refute-les-pertes-de-rafale-lors-dun-combat

 

[redpanda]

FYI, military does not serve the gormint, they serve the Indian state, The president is their commander in chief. administrative matters are handled by gormint on behalf of the president.

Indian military is under no obligation to make anything public, public is on need to know basis on matters related to military, only to the extent of info they want to make public.

Yep public views also hardly affect military decisions. So we debating on how birds fell here & there is irrelevant. Because military already have things at place to do analysis of such matters.

 

[Ajayant Tripathi]

I don't think government wishes to hide it forever. I'm just saying they don't think it's the right time to release the full report of the operation. Because things have yet to cool off. If they really wanted to keep it confidential they wouldn't be allowing CDS and IA personal to talk about our losses albeit in a vague manner. They have their own internal assessment wrt to various factors like strategic, internal politics, geopolitics, etc. Perhaps from that assesment they have arrived to the conclusion that this isn't the right time to release everything bare. Let's have patience. Currently the situation is still tense.

I don't know if delaying it anymore helps unless we are preparing for a phase 2. I wish their is a phase 2.

Its perfect time to disclose information. Infact we were lucky to witness Israel-Iran skirmish. It has educated people to the probability of possible BM strikes going through. Now is actually perfect time. Imagery of recent conflicts is fresh in people's mind and they can easily appreciate our outstanding performance.

Today' people are much more appreciatie of war it seems. I don't know why its. But their is a slight hawkishness in people i meet. I believe congress will actually find itself at receiving end. Ofcourse GoI will face scrutiny on our defense preparedness. I think majority of the people will actually not ask what we lost. They will instead ask why we ignored indian systems? Why indian systems are not bought timely? Where is Indian MIC? I don't believe people will be stuck at rafale loss. They will instead ask why Tejas is not inducted? Where is our own engine? Why are we not preparing for a threat from China?

In end again, I believe its perfect time to disclose and engage in a public debate when public memory of war is fresh.

 

[redpanda]

I don't know if delaying it anymore helps unless we are preparing for a phase 2. I wish their is a phase 2.

Its perfect time to disclose information. Infact we were lucky to witness Israel-Iran skirmish. It has educated people to the probability of possible BM strikes going through. Now is actually perfect time. Imagery of recent conflicts is fresh in people's mind and they can easily appreciate our outstanding performance.

Today' people are much more appreciatie of war it seems. I don't know why its. But their is a slight hawkishness in people i meet. I believe congress will actually find itself at receiving end. Ofcourse GoI will face scrutiny on our defense preparedness. I think majority of the people will actually not ask what we lost. They will instead ask why we ignored indian systems? Why indian systems are not bought timely? Where is Indian MIC? I don't believe people will be stuck at rafale loss. They will instead ask why Tejas is not inducted? Where is our own engine? Why are we not preparing for a threat from China?

In end again, I believe its perfect time to disclose and engage in a public debate when public memory of war is fresh.

While I agree there are people like us who understands how military objectives work, not everyone is same. You are being very optimistic about our people even here there were people literally crying over alleged 69 Rafale shot down during the whole operations. Heck a lot of my normie friends were saying what did we achieve by wasting an expensive bird in blowing some terrorist huts. We have all kind of idiots like that.

 

[shade2]

I don't know if delaying it anymore helps unless we are preparing for a phase 2. I wish their is a phase 2.

Its perfect time to disclose information. Infact we were lucky to witness Israel-Iran skirmish. It has educated people to the probability of possible BM strikes going through. Now is actually perfect time. Imagery of recent conflicts is fresh in people's mind and they can easily appreciate our outstanding performance.

Today' people are much more appreciatie of war it seems. I don't know why its. But their is a slight hawkishness in people i meet. I believe congress will actually find itself at receiving end. Ofcourse GoI will face scrutiny on our defense preparedness. I think majority of the people will actually not ask what we lost. They will instead ask why we ignored indian systems? Why indian systems are not bought timely? Where is Indian MIC? I don't believe people will be stuck at rafale loss. They will instead ask why Tejas is not inducted? Where is our own engine? Why are we not preparing for a threat from China?

In end again, I believe its perfect time to disclose and engage in a public debate when public memory of war is fresh.

No point giving the opposition traitors ammo to spin things beyond recognition and also give the Pakis a stick to beat us with, when they haven't revealed their losses.

They should just keep an eye on the uniformed class giving interviews or generally speaking something, especially in a foreign country.

From what is being done now it seems like "we lost planes because of RoE, Op Sindoor was a failure" will be the narrative.