Operation Sindoor and Aftermath

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Since it's been close to 3 weeks now Operation Sindoor has ceased being active & is in suspended animation , besides us getting fairly detailed accounts of BDA on Paxtani sites , let me play the Devil's Advocate & enquire why exactly did we jump a few steps up the escalation ladder & go directly for an assault on SPD C&C centres at Nur Khan & possibly Sargodha AFB apart from the strike at Kirana Hills & not simultaneously target PAF assets on the ground or do so before during or after we targeted their N facilities ?

I find no satisfactory answers to this question of mine. Even if we were to assume that Fauji Foundation started its now predictable action right out of its playbook from 1999 , of being seen rushing in & out of N facilities , bringing out their TELs etc , creating enough commotion on the ground that even the most disinterested viewer will be forced to notice , to say nothing of the far more potent ISR space based assets which'd definitely be recording these activities forcing the hand of the US as Paxtan desired , something we were waiting for & as soon as the go ahead was received from the PMO / CCS the IAF sprang into action , couldn't all those assets also be targeted simultaneously ?

Something doesn't quite add up. Was there something lost in communication ? Did the IAF specifically receive such instructions from the GoI not to target these assets ? If yes how does one explain us going after their N facilities even if it was only to cause superficial damage just to make a point.

To me that's a bigger escalation than targeting the PAF assets on the ground. Or was it an either or situation wherein targeting both was seen as possibly too much on the escalation ladder & any one target was selected to make a point which in this case happened to be the N facilities even if it was the bigger of the two targets in the escalation ladder ?

Accepted. That still doesn't explain why we didn't go after the PAF assets in a big way .

All we did was demonstrate to them we could target them & their assets at will.

Frankly I'm of the opinion the IAF got more fortunate than they anticipated with the results of their targeting PAF assets.

This is important for while N weapons are the last resort , PAF as an organisation though damaged is not in the ICU which is where we could have put it or at any rate put them in a position which was near ICU worthy.

The point is we did not. My question is why didn't we ?This also means they can bounce back from this debacle & cause more damage to us in the future having learnt the right lessons whereas that wouldn't be the case if we targeted them & took out plenty of PAF assets this time around.
Long post warning.

I Disagree with your second post. And I think I might have an answer to your questions in the first post. But before that, some background.

How many of you are familiar with Vipin Narang's work here? He is a west based (Primarily American) Political Science Professor with a specialization in Nuclear Policy. He has authored a consistent series of papers, serially for over a decade about how India's nuclear policy is not as innocuous as it looked and that all of that seemingly inconsistent and haphazard development of technology and testing of missiles, ABM systems etc is not from Strategic Confusion but a well planned and thought out Conventional Counter force strategy against Pakistan while retaining a Counter Value targeting strategy against China.

Most recently, he authored a paper jointly with Christopher Clary ( Yes of the ISI Begum fame) titled
" India's Counterforce temptations " which I recommend everyone to read.

The crux of the paper is as I stated above. That India's strategic planners have made a conscious strategy to target Pakistan's nukes with conventional counterforce elements while simultaneously developing ABM systems in order to intercept the stray nuke missile thrown our way. India’s way of dealing with the Pakistani nuclear threat is to de nuclearize Pakistan while using only conventional counterforce elements. That this is causing instability in South Asian Strategic balance as Pakistan cannot keep up with Indian military spending, hence its paranoia about India’s new counterforce strategy will cause it to launch its nukes at every provocation and put their nuke arsenal at ever more hair trigger alerts.

That this is not just one academic being paranoid but a well thought out deliberately underplayed strategy by India is borne out by some more examples. In one of his very early talks at an Israeli forum Abhijit Iyer-mitra has mentioned that Indian Air Force has a very clear cut policy to deal with Pakistani nuclear weapons. That they would destroy any TEL they can see and track via Satellite based ISR, Aerial reconnaissance and HUMINT. If their were to be a sympathetic detonation, it would not be considered a first strike by India. Add to this the “accidental “ slips of tongue by Indian strategic planners on the level of NSA Menon in the UPA govt and DM Parrikar in the NDA govt, this appears more and more to be a credible hypothesis especially considering the military technologies India was developing indigenously and acquiring from Israel and France. Israel especially, considering the Israeli strike element arsenal has the targeting of Iran’s nuclear facilities or finished nuclear delivery and deployment mechanisms as one of its primary taskings. I mean missiles Like Rocks ALBM, LORA etc. here.

So far this was just a strategy, but an untested one. But all the elements required for this strategy have been carefully designed, developed, acquired and tested. Like ABM systems, Air launched Precision strike munitions with very low intercept probability, Integrated Air Defense Grid, multiple options for missile interceptions etc. They have also consistently and iteratively improved procedures, planning and execution with exercises like Vayu Shakti to replicate a high tempo of operations and constant bombardment that would be necessary to denuclearise Pakistan.

So, with this in mind, my reading of what has happened during Operation Sindoor is as follows.

We could not start Operation Sindoor with SEAD/DEAD against the Pakistan Armed Forces while saying that we are responding to terror. Why? Because believe it or not we have a lot of baggage that acts as a precedent that prevents us from directly striking Pakistani military first. Like it or not, everybody and I mean absolutely EVERYBODY would love to have an excuse to blame us for being aggressive and rogue if we break that precedent. We needed to demonstrate that we are only targeting terrorists and that we will only respond against the Pakistani military when forced to. It was for this reason that we were working under such restrictive RoEs on May 6-7 during the opening hours of Operation Sindoor.

But Pakis being Pakis made it easier for us by having Uniformed Generals taking part in the Funerals of dead terrorists, and under the lead of a wanted terrorist no less, especially in front of Cameras. Hence, Modis declaration that we will no longer differentiate between terrorists and the Pakistani state and military is important.

It means when Operation Sindoor resumes again, Pakistani military assets/ AD would be targeted and neutralized first before any anti terrorist action and we don’t need to provide any justification for targeting another country’s armed forces. I think this is also the reason why MP delegations with diverse selection of MPs have been sent to various countries in order to drive home this point, especially emphasizing that “India has the right to Defend itself against Pakistani terrorist attacks”

It is to shift the narrative from, “ India is needlessly escalating by targeting another Sovereign country’s Armed forces “ to “ India is defending itself against Pakistani military strategy of terrorism and it is Self defense” and coming from a democratically elected MP representing the will of millions of Indian Voters, it becomes very difficult for either the Foreign Press or Bad faith actors to counter them.

About why India started targeting Pakistani nuclear storage sites and launch sites along with SPD Command and Control, I have the following explanation based on what I postulated before.

Till the time Pakistanis kept themselves in the domain of drones against military installations and Firing in Border areas, we would, as mentioned in the statement on May 8th “respond in the same domain”.

Hence, in response to Pakistani night time drone attacks, we responded with Drone attacks targeting Pakistani military assets. No escalation.

However, the moment the Pakistanis launched a Ballistic Missile towards NCR with ambiguity of whether it was a nuclear payload or conventional the situation graduated from Conventional sallies across the border with drones to “Possible nuclear first strike”

The Pakistanis I suspect wanted to demonstrate the following.

They are willing to escalate rapidly into the grey domain of nuclear ambiguity. Meaning, India could never be sure if the next attack with another BM or Cruise missile would not be equipped with a nuclear warhead, which they thought would terrify the Hindu banias and paralyse our command chain with sheer panic.

What actually happened was that India’s Politico-military planners had just upgraded this situation from “Anti Terror Operation and its consequent military duels “ to “ Its very possible that the Pakistanis would launch a nuclear first strike next”

This was what I suspect has actually caused the entire effort to shift gears. Because immediately post the interception of a Ballistic Missile over Sirsa, The IAF’s counterforce targeting campaign was in full force. If you notice, the Indian posture and military attacks shifted dramatically in intensity and range of targets during May 9-10th , but still well within the domain of how Pakistan responded. Meaning we wanted demonstrate our counterforce intent, and remove any ambiguity from Pakistani minds that escalating this would result in anything other than their denuclearization. (Please read Modiji’s statement that India would no longer bend to Pakistani nuclear Blackmail in this light.)

Another thing this explains is why did US get involved and what was the “ Alarming intelligence” that they had received?

Some say that it was the targeting of Nur Khan air base, but just targeting an airbase doesn’t explain the “alarming“ part. I think what possibly happened was this. As soon as India shifted gears to Counterforce targeting, any reasonably well read nuclear strategist or policy maker would immediately recognize it for what it means and sound the alarm, but because Trump fired everybody of consequence who could recognize it, it took the Americans the better part of a day to realize what was happening.

That was the “alarming intelligence “ that the US received and why it was involved immediately. Because the situation just graduated from “Just browns killing each other, none of my business” the day before, to “ NUCLEAR WAR !!! MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WOULD HAVE DIED !! “

The difference can be gauged from just the difference in the kind of statements made by Vance the DAY BEFORE, to what Trump has constantly crowed since about saving millions of people. Because, the end game of a counterforce conventional targeting of Pakistani nuclear arsenal is that some WOULD be launched against us, and despite us being confident of being able to intercept these stray shots, the Burgericans have no way of knowing that we are just signalling our change of strategy and that this was a demonstration of our intent. As far as they knew, we were going to denuclearize their munna and roll it over like a bitch.

(As an aside, holy shit this American administration is dumb as shit. )

This is my understanding of what happened during May 6-10th and I hope this helps put some possible context on the inexplicable happenings during those 4 days.
 
I thought it was known already? There is a reason why ORF continues to provide platforms to clowns like Mihir Sharma (yeah, the Gloomberg one) and a number of UPA era nutjobs (platformed by the then UPA gormint).

That being said, as long as the foreign contributions clear FCRA checks, it should not really matter. Foreign contributions are not even a major source of capital for the ORF.
Ya that guy asked for a source so I gave it to him. It's not illegal or even subversive but just something to keep in mind when you listen to the likes of AIM, Velina Tchakarova and Sushant Sareen.
 
other than pics of mirage fuel tank , no other pics or videos have been conclusively proven.
======
sequence of where you got your info from...

reuters takes cues from ISPR press conference, quotes unnamed j&k govt source.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...mu-kashmir-local-govt-sources-say-2025-05-07/

Dhindu makes a news report , embellishing the reuters report with locations

in both cases, pics of fuel tank.

View attachment 37804

Chini media quotes dhindu
View attachment 37806

Dhindu later deletes the news report and the tweet above

chini news report are still up.

https://www.daily-sun.com/post/803913

View attachment 37805





Dhindu reporter is the one who asked the question about downed jets, quoting reuters . reuters guy in the PC himself does not ask this question, he focussed on damage caused and target selection


View: https://youtu.be/VUXwnp_6vB8?t=3644

This repeated offender Wee Jee Taa is not at all worth mentioing here considering her rabid anti hatred towards the currently govt .. She with Premature ejaculation tried to post those fuel tanks pictures as aircrafts and later retracted but the information was not wrong ..

there are enough videos of Akhnoor crash , bathinda crash online on the day of 7th May ..

It okay like the telegram group i am in , i am realised the forum also wants to stick to what the information as shared by govt and don't want any other alternative perspective

So i won't waste my time anymore in this forum discussing any our losses as non of you are going to even discuss it unless Emperor Mudi ji announce it himself ..
 
As for China, often the Western media is sympathetic to India, at least not usually sympathetic to China in any ideological or physical clash between the two countries. Even here, there are sections of the media and think tanks, that actually wouldn't mind India suffering a setback with China. If such a setback would make India more dependent on the US than on independent development with major inputs from Russia and France, it would be welcomed.
much of the press about india china is pushed by the places with an agenda, i usually
ignore it completely. India and china are in BRICS and doing fine, Russia recently proposed
a russia, india, china alliance they would not be proposing if things were really that bad?? IMO
 
I do not think so! though disappointed ! there must be something which has not come out yet.
But if you closely watch the Modi's speeches , it seems it's still on.
I think they are preparing for ground invasion which will take time for preparation. secondly , Banglu is also needs to be paid attention first. It might be that during war with PAK , if they middle , India would like to settle chicken issue with banglu. But some how I am sure , its coming and coming in big way to settle all issue for India!
I don't know how 90% of members in this forum will react when they come to know the real truth behind which side first flown the white peace dove and what was the compulsions .. its better to leave it here . Leadership believes they achieved a deterrence and its followers also think next time an attack happens it will be even more dramatic . all we can do this just wait and watch ..its only after the next attack we will come to know did actions on May 7th to 10th have created that deterrence which our side has think it achieved ..

Its purely in the hands of porki pigs now to call that bluff ..

until then we will just have to wait
 
Thanks for the certification saar , was really missing that party card in my pocket to earn 2 rupees .. My family and me will be really grateful for your kindness ..


Yeh lehh

Fake image. Reverse lookup shows the image is from a previous air crash. Wrong growing season and fog as well.
 
This repeated offender Wee Jee Taa is not at all worth mentioing here considering her rabid anti hatred towards the currently govt .. She with Premature ejaculation tried to post those fuel tanks pictures as aircrafts and later retracted but the information was not wrong ..

there are enough videos of Akhnoor crash , bathinda crash online on the day of 7th May ..

It okay like the telegram group i am in , i am realised the forum also wants to stick to what the information as shared by govt and don't want any other alternative perspective

So i won't waste my time anymore in this forum discussing any our losses as non of you are going to even discuss it unless Emperor Mudi ji announce it himself ..
You just shared an outdated fake image, and you want us to believe you? You are no different from the failed marshallah who present a fake image to showbaaz.
 
What might be the real truth according to you?
Pakistan being stupid, irrational, full of bluster, confident of support from a few countries, may try some new sick stunt. But none of that devalues or dismisses the Indian achievement in the last few weeks. India not only fought Pakistan, it faced the mendacity and hostility of large sections of the global media. And came out advantageously( which may be an understatement!)
 
Guys, you should see the number of Pakistani and Chinese demagogues and propagandists on message boards like that of Republic TV particularly. Whoa! Maybe Indians are smart enough not to engage these idiots. I have, perhaps unfortunately, responded to a few of them! They are attacking general G.D Bakshi and Republic TV with such vile insults.
 
looks like the ching-chong author of this article is seething. Why Indians won? cause we achieved all mission objectives terror infra + paki air bases. During this we lost a couple of jets (maybe). Still Indian win, Paki couldnt defend or retaliate meaningfully through out the engagement.
Stock prices (values) for Indian weapons manufacturers is going up.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbLhGUV6oyU
It is a good time to invest in weapons market. Note: I am not a financial advisor. Please consult with a bonafide financial advisor.

The other day, we were discussing the possibility of India selling weapons to Taiwan. Well, our discussion was not entirely futile. Taiwan is actually showing interest in Akash and IACCS (Integrated Air Command and Control System). India & Taiwan should explore the feasibility of technological exchange in chips & weapons manufacturing.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMQN7IkYvFw

Now, you can see why China is not very happy. It looks like China went to Russia complaining about India :)
 
Comparing the cheap Chinese Junk-10C or the Junk Fighter-17 to state-of-the-art Rafales is blasphemy. If delays in the AMCA program mean India needs to import F-35s, so be it—but let’s be clear: no sane person on Earth would claim that Chinese hardware is superior to Western systems—or even to Indian-made platforms, for that matter.
Purchase of F-35 is counter productive. It is too expensive. It is more suited for rich countries like New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc. Instead of wasting money on F-35s, we can do following: India should acquire state of the art A2/AD platforms such as S-400/500. We already have battle proven S-400 systems in our military, we can simply increase the number of A2/AD platforms we have -- either through indigenous production or through joint production with Russia. This will free up existing combat aircrafts for missions against enemy targets. Furthermore, we need to increase the number of Pakistan specific SRBMs & SRCMs -- supersonic/hypersonic. The same can be replicated for China. This will give us some breather. This does not mean we should go to party and forget about building turbofan engines. No, on the contrary, this will allow us to concentrate on:

a. Design and build our very own turbofan engines. I hope GE from the US will honor the agreement
b. As an interim solution, partner with Russia to jointly manufacture some version of Sukhoi that can act as a short range bomber, interceptor, ground attack against high value targets
 
a. Design and build our very own turbofan engines. I hope GE from the US will honor the agreement
This is the bread and butter of the warplane industry no way they will share this technology
with anybody not a big customer or even a NATO nation. This is what has prevented China
and India from making international level warplanes.
 
This is the bread and butter of the warplane industry no way they will share this technology
with anybody not a big customer or even a NATO nation. This is what has prevented China
and India from making international level warplanes.
Do you think that the GE will back out from its ToT commitment? If so, what will be India's Plan - B?
 
Do you think GE will back out from its ToT commitment? If so, what will be India's Plan - B?
I have yet to see anyone (except israel-co development) keep their promise for TOT. Not the russians, or
french or americans. Someone will ssay what about brahmos?? Russians still have the source
codes for brahmos did not share as far as i know??
 
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