Operation Sindoor and Aftermath (95 Viewers)

[Brood Father]

This is what Analysis looks like ..great read

View: https://x.com/kursed/status/1931140603343220966

 

[Vilander]

Dhoti shivering chalu hogaya. What do you guys want IAF to do then? Panic buy 5th gen jets? Dhoti shiverers should understand that buying weapons is not like buying groceries from off the shelves of Mall.

Let's say IAF tries to buy F35, it will take 1-2 year atleast for negotiation. Then it will take 5-6 years for the first aircraft to get delivered. That is 2032-2033. Situation is same with Su-57. Buying ready made AWACs like that is also gonna take a lot of time 3-4 years + time that will take to do the whole integration.

Calm down Armed forces and GoI will work to find counters to these if PAF get these new toys. If PAF get these quickly it will certainly put pressure on the establishment to quickly act and fastrack things.

Can you clarify below, I am not challenging just trying to understand
-if off the shelf purchase would take 8 years to deliver first jet. Is it a valid assumption that amca will be faster to delivery and integration ?

 

[INDIAFIRST]

i have a question given the AI technology quickly outpacing many chinese component...can one scenario be possible during Indo Chinese limited localised duration air fight where they can hack our entire ADS of that local spot....

 

[concard]

I'll go in reverse. As bad as Su57 might be, as long as it can handle so called Chini 5th gen, it would do its job.

Chini equipment is in US and western material as well. There's no escaping that.

Delivery timelines delay is something you have to live with. You are talking as if HAL doesn't delay.

What's the realistic AMCA timeline? What happens if the government changes?

"I'll go in reverse. As bad as Su57 might be, as long as it can handle so called Chini 5th gen, it would do its job."

No, it can't. Russians are still in the era of dog fights prioritizing making highly maneuverable fighter aircrafts rather than giving preference to BVR engagements with sensor fusion and sophisticated network warfare combining all the resources of air force like other fighter aircrafts and AWACS.

"Chini equipment is in US and western material as well. There's no escaping that."

Western aircrafts might contain raw materials like Titanium and rare earth elements from China but never a finished product. Don't make wild claims.

"Delivery timelines delay is something you have to live with. You are talking as if HAL doesn't delay."

So, what is the point of going for Su-57? If there is a delay on our side at the very least it will be delivered and we will be in control of the product and we would have created a new industry within the country and strategic autonomy.

"What's the realistic AMCA timeline? What happens if the government changes?"

No one can say what is the realistic timeline. But there is no going back to the days of importing massive number of fighter aircrafts regardless of who is in power.

 

[snakeeyes07]

This is what Analysis looks like ..great read

View: https://x.com/kursed/status/1931140603343220966

2. Pak dithered. Yes. But not out of some strategic reasons but due to its own fractured internal security and political situation. Pak analysts are mostly describing a disconnected reality when they describe just one facet of this reality.

I think Munir's goal behind Pahalgam was to invite a response for this reason. When Pakistan is under threat from India, it will force their population to rally under the banner and consolidate his position. He did that and became Field Marshal but I don't think this was managed as tactfully as he would have liked. Once things cool down, I think those differences will come out and be even stronger.

What they didn't expect was the escalation to reach a level where India would start firing and Scalp against military targets and airfield. They didn't want to get into a full fledged war situation as they were not prepared or looking for it.

Food for thought: Pak did not even attempt to resort to the vast plethora of systems available to it: A100/F2/RAAD 1,2/Taimur or BREK or Akinci based LR munition et al. This is in stark contrast to other side using everything from Warmate to to Scalp and Rampage. So, anyone who thinks that Pak needed some new system before being able to respond in kind, has no idea what they’re talking about.

They did use F1 extensively which is same class as A-100. F2 was used minimally and definitely against Sirsa. More liberal use of F2 and opening with Taimur/Raad would have been their next rung of escalation. But that would responded by Indian Navy action against PNS, also higher use of IAF and IA SSM to further degrade their airfields and infrastructure (PAC Kamra?). Then they could have tried to attack Jamnagar or Bathinda refinery or other economic targets. Which then would have invited strikes on Karachi Harbor, oil storage and refineries. And then it could be full fledged war. Just mind you everything so far in this scenario until full fledged war is non-contact, although very painful doesn't threaten Pakistan existence thus no nuclear red lines are crossed. No Indian troops crossed into Pakistan so no use of Tactical nukes.

In essence, they did not respond in kind, it was not from a position of strength or high moral ground but they saw where it was heading towards.

 

[ChandraSingh]

This is what Analysis looks like ..great read

View: https://x.com/kursed/status/1931140603343220966

Pakistan exercised restraint ? LMAO. Pakistan use of restraint was not an option but rather compulsion. Why Pakistan did not use plethora of weapons A100, Taimur etc. as if India asked Pakistan most. The analysis is nothing more than a loser's coping.

If a nation that boasts of high tech weapons doesn't use them as it's bases are getting pummeled, there are two reasons

1. The nation does not have the capability to sustain counter attacks after first strikes by its elite weapons and therefore it is forced to gulp down on its ego and keep them on standby.

2. The weapons are inferior and using them would further embolden the adversary to launch more serious attacks.

Pakistanis are not known for restraint. They rely more on brawn than brain. Their strategy involves 30% brain and 70% brawn.

 

[Brood Father]

Pakistan exercised restraint ? LMAO. Pakistan use of restraint was not an option but rather compulsion. Why Pakistan did not use plethora of weapons A100, Taimur etc. as if India asked Pakistan most. The analysis is nothing more than a loser's coping.

If a nation that boasts of high tech weapons doesn't use them as it's bases are getting pummeled, there are two reasons

1. The nation does not have the capability to sustain counter attacks after first strikes by its elite weapons and therefore it is forced to gulp down on its ego and keep them on standby.

2. The weapons are inferior and using them would further embolden the adversary to launch more serious attacks.

Pakistanis are not known for restraint. They rely more on brawn than brain. Their strategy involves 30% brain and 70% brawn.

This is coming from Paki so you can expect a bit of bias but he does agree that India has changed the status quo and in next conflict you can see naval blockades and missiles attack on economic centers

 

[chnvipgz]

This is what Analysis looks like ..great read

View: https://x.com/kursed/status/1931140603343220966

He is a youthia pti low iq incestuous rat who must be doing this hallucination like that lt gen panag who was hallucinated after his daughter entered bollywood mafia industry like praveen swaheny became a ccp slave after having relationship with isi agent ghazala wahab.


View: https://x.com/JaipurDialogues/status/1931246704021418355?t=mDbdEF3FO0_-d918io5uCw&s=19

 

[snakeeyes07]

I believe the best way to keep Pakistan in check for next few years:
- Keep IWT in abeyance, even by managing flows during lean seasons via Run of the River projects we can make cause them some damage (primarily due to Pakistan's abysmal water storage infra built so far) and keep them on their toes. This directly impacts their Punjab dominated feudal elite and also plays at Punjab & Sindh difference.
- Keep improving IAF - LCA acquisition, SU30MKI capability enhancement, Astra mk2 & mk3, NG, Datalinks, etc.
- Make our AD overlapping, interlinked and fortress like from Punjab to Gujarat. J&K would be a challenge due to terrain.
- Build up missile, drone & loitering munition arsenal

If Indian capabilities are enhanced (significantly but within reach if government decides), next time if India hit terror targets I think Pakistan may very well fire here and there in India and quickly sue for peace. And instead rely on their media/information influence to assuage local audiences like they are doing now with S400.

If we do this, they might come on table to renegotiate IWT. If that happens, our goal should be to increase our water share from current 7% to something near 25-40% (around 40% of the catchment of these 3 rivers in in India) and no Pakistani veto on our water projects.

 

[Cheepek]

This is what Analysis looks like ..great read

View: https://x.com/kursed/status/1931140603343220966

Pak dithered simply because it is weaker than India, and that India was going up the escalation ladder after every response from Pakistan.
It is truly a daunting scenario for porkis.
Pakistan cannot fight long wars, only short skirmishes/conflicts. However, when faced with an adversary willing to not only prolong confrontation, but also that intensifies attacks after each exchange, the limits of Pakistan's conventional military capabilities are bound to reveal themselves, if they don't urgently seek a temporary reprieve/ceasefire.

 

[vampyrbladez]

This is what Analysis looks like ..great read

View: https://x.com/kursed/status/1931140603343220966

They are now at Stage 3

 

[Roshan]

View: https://twitter.com/WIONews/status/1931196331550191997?t=5kEWXqsPXmtZGHu1oCbSiw&s=19

Cross-border espionage ring: Arrested Indian YouTuber spills details about Pakistani 'mastermind'​

In a major development, Indian intelligence agencies have uncovered a cross-border espionage network allegedly masterminded by a former Pakistani police officer.

Nasir Dhillon was former sub-inspector from the Pakistan Police​

The revelation surfaced during the interrogation of an Indian YouTuber who was allegedly arrested for leaking sensitive information related to military installations and troop movements.

Punjab YouTuber Jasbir Singh, who was arrested earlier this week for allegedly spying for Pakistan, revealed during probe that an ex-cop Nasir Dhillon had introduced him to Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) officials in Lahore. He had also arranged Jasbir Singh's meeting with ISI operative Danish in Pakistan.

As per reports, Nasir and his female accomplice, Naushaba Shehzad aka Madam N, were specifically tasked by ISI to nurture Indian influencers.

"After initial onboarding, Nasir would connect Indian YouTubers visiting Pakistan with high commission official Danish and others who would then assign them espionage tasks and invite them as guests to the Pakistan High Commission in Delhi," an investigator was quoted saying to The Times of India.

Nasir is also a real estate dealer operating from Faisalabad and enjoys driving SUVs. "He has a lot of followers on YouTube and he advocates for visas to Indians yearning to meet family in Pakistan through his videos. But that is his alibi to cover up his spying operation," a senior investigator was quoted saying to TOI.

Nasir and Naushaba Shehzad, who operate a travel agency in Pakistan, provided visas for the influencers who "cooperated". Besides providing with visa and other amenities, such as stay at five star hotels, the duo requested the influencers to make pro-Pakistan videos and post them so that a positive narrative is created.

Who was Jasbir Singh?

Jasbir used to operate a channel called "Jaan Mahal." He also used to maintain a close connection with arrested youtuber Jyoti Malhotra and Ehsan-ur-Rahim alias Danish, a Pakistani High Commission Official who was expelled from India.

The police investigation found that Jasbir has visited Pakistan three times (2020, 2021, 2024). His electronic devices have contact listed from multiple Pakistan-based numbers. He also attended the Pakistan National Day event in Delhi on the invitation of Danish where he met with other Pakistani officials and bloggers.

Further, police have also found that Danish used to call the 'spies' as guests to the Pakistan High Commission in Delhi and assign them tasks. Security agencies also suspect that hundreds of former police personnel of Pakistan Police are part of the espionage racket, which targets Indian YouTubers.

 

[chnvipgz]

I think Munir's goal behind Pahalgam was to invite a response for this reason. When Pakistan is under threat from India, it will force their population to rally under the banner and consolidate his position. He did that and became Field Marshal but I don't think this was managed as tactfully as he would have liked. Once things cool down, I think those differences will come out and be even stronger.

What they didn't expect was the escalation to reach a level where India would start firing and Scalp against military targets and airfield. They didn't want to get into a full fledged war situation as they were not prepared or looking for it.


They did use F1 extensively which is same class as A-100. F2 was used minimally and definitely against Sirsa. More liberal use of F2 and opening with Taimur/Raad would have been their next rung of escalation. But that would responded by Indian Navy action against PNS, also higher use of IAF and IA SSM to further degrade their airfields and infrastructure (PAC Kamra?). Then they could have tried to attack Jamnagar or Bathinda refinery or other economic targets. Which then would have invited strikes on Karachi Harbor, oil storage and refineries. And then it could be full fledged war. Just mind you everything so far in this scenario until full fledged war is non-contact, although very painful doesn't threaten Pakistan existence thus no nuclear red lines are crossed. No Indian troops crossed into Pakistan so no use of Tactical nukes.

In essence, they did not respond in kind, it was not from a position of strength or high moral ground but they saw where it was heading towards.

They tried babur cruise missile, shaheen ballistic missile which was shot down as well by the IAF.

 

[snakeeyes07]

They tried babur cruise missile,shaheen ballistic missile which was shot down aswell.

I don't think Shaheen was used, they did not want to risk Indian retaliation. India's NFU policy has that flexibility that it considers launch of strategic ballistic missile or even mobilization of warheads itself from storage as imminent first strike, India at that stage could launch counter force strike (or even counter value, who knows all targeting stuff is arbitrary).

 

[Nibbler]

India ought to caution China that in the event of any future conflicts with Pakistan, where China provides open and covert support, India will not hesitate to destroy Gwadar and the CEPEC infrastructure.

View: https://x.com/sneheshphilip/status/1931206999988932675?s=46&t=s5Zjz3wgeVF4a5zNfD4EYA

Why would China give a fuck about gwadar and cpec infrastructure. That shit is a make work project for their contractors nothing more.

China should be told that in the even of nuclear use by pak we will retaliate not only in islamabad but also in Beijing

The war head count should head toward 1000

Their air defence systems are so shit they will have to take it seriously.

They are risk averse to an extreme and will likely completely sit out if this is done

 

[Nicky]

"I'll go in reverse. As bad as Su57 might be, as long as it can handle so called Chini 5th gen, it would do its job."

No, it can't. Russians are still in the era of dog fights prioritizing making highly maneuverable fighter aircrafts rather than giving preference to BVR engagements with sensor fusion and sophisticated network warfare combining all the resources of air force like other fighter aircrafts and AWACS.

"Chini equipment is in US and western material as well. There's no escaping that."

Western aircrafts might contain raw materials like Titanium and rare earth elements from China but never a finished product. Don't make wild claims.

"Delivery timelines delay is something you have to live with. You are talking as if HAL doesn't delay."

So, what is the point of going for Su-57? If there is a delay on our side at the very least it will be delivered and we will be in control of the product and we would have created a new industry within the country and strategic autonomy.

"What's the realistic AMCA timeline? What happens if the government changes?"

No one can say what is the realistic timeline. But there is no going back to the days of importing massive number of fighter aircrafts regardless of who is in power.

Chini jets have no demonstrated capabilities. It's merely a 5th gen on papaer.

US military is concerned about Chini components.

Lack of Chinese components threatens U.S. military readiness

In an age where technological superiority is paramount, the alarming dependency of the U.S. Army on Chinese components is becoming increasingly apparent.

bulgarianmilitary.com

Delays can occur anywhere. The point is that's not unique to Russia.

AMCA depends on continued support from the government which can change.

I too wish we didn't have to import jets. But we don't have the capability to produce 5th gen in the next decade. So we need a stop gap.

 

[Brood Father]

Why would China give a fuck about gwadar and cpec infrastructure. That shit is a make work project for their contractors nothing more.

China should be told that in the even of nuclear use by pak we will retaliate not only in islamabad but also in Beijing

The war head count should head toward 1000

Their air defence systems are so shit they will have to take it seriously.

They are risk averse to an extreme and will likely completely sit out if this is done

China arming pak is because it wants India to stop building Navy
The way China can be threatened is by choking its supply lines in Malaca
That is why it is very important for India to build its Navy by building next gen destroyers and submarines and also Naval AMCA .

 

[Brood Father]

Chini jets have no demonstrated capabilities. It's merely a 5th gen on papaer.

US military is concerned about Chini components.

Lack of Chinese components threatens U.S. military readiness

In an age where technological superiority is paramount, the alarming dependency of the U.S. Army on Chinese components is becoming increasingly apparent.

bulgarianmilitary.com

Delays can occur anywhere. The point is that's not unique to Russia.

AMCA depends on continued support from the government which can change.

I too wish we didn't have to import jets. But we don't have the capability to produce 5th gen in the next decade. So we need a stop gap.

THERE IS NO STOP GAP SITUATION FOR INDIA

You get SU57 then you risk CATSA , tell me how then you are going to build your own jets

You get F35 you won't be able to integrate it with existing system and also your platform will be controlled by US

The only stop gap option I see is J20 ..,.

Second best is to wait for AMCA and in meanwhile build unmanned drones and work in radars
AMCA will be China perspective not Pakistan.for pak our missiles will be enough

 

[Nibbler]

China arming pak is because it wants India to stop building Navy
The way China can be threatened is by choking its supply lines in Malaca
That is why it is very important for India to build its Navy by building next gen destroyers and submarines and also Naval AMCA .

I agree all those are important

But k4, k5 and a 1000 warheads are more important.

I hope the breeder reactor gets going (is it?) And it starts pumping out fissile material

 

[Nicky]

THERE IS NO STOP GAP SITUATION FOR INDIA

You get SU57 then you risk CATSA , tell me how then you are going to build your own jets

You get F35 you won't be able to integrate it with existing system and also your platform will be controlled by US

The only stop gap option I see is J20 ..,.

Second best is to wait for AMCA and in meanwhile build unmanned drones and work in radars
AMCA will be China perspective not Pakistan.for pak our missiles will be enough

F35 is a non-starter. Why can't we build jets without CATSA? We told US to f-off when we got S400.

If not Su57, get more Rafales and hope they can match J20 where needed.

The thing people are missing is that the opposition can come in power and scuttle AMCA.

I am not sure drones can be a substitute for a jet in an all out war.