Operation Sindoor and Aftermath

[ezsasa]

I agree fighter jets and cruise missiles are escalatory especially in Pakistan mainland if it is preemptive but how does excalibur or guided Pinaka based surgical strikes in POJK, figure in the escalation matrix?

excalibur - yes. (10 metres CEP)
guided pinaka as a preemptive strike- not yet i suppose because of CEP(> 30 mts).

 

[arjuntank]

So many small earthquake in pakistan. Are they testing nuclear bombs.


View: https://www.youtube.com/live/j4HFN9ZT2uM?si=EIehsFduCekGnuwH

 

[snakeeyes07]

MK1 was acquired for low low low basis of 290 km only … basically it was P-800

carried less fuel than P-800. Before MTCR, max range was 290km (which involved high profile) and after MTCR I believe the range of same missiles were increased to 450km with software update.

I remember in an interview, A. Pillai of Aerospace had mentioned 120km as the range in lo-lo profile when max range was 290km.

BrahMos thread - Part 2

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Now with LR, we just tested it out to 800km.

If we go by ratio of 0.415 (120/290), then for 450km it is 187km and 800km it is 330km. 330km should cover 75-80% of targets in Pakistan.

 

[Viper316]

Chinese cheap export variant & pak paintjob jf17 blunder aircraft shot down by rebels in myanmar. True capabilities of blunder aicraft getting exposed whenever deployed in a real battlefield


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1932488070609449021?t=be2BnlXJfK5jLlpI8v_EJw&s=19

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Chinese cheap export variant & pak paintjob jf17 blunder aircraft shot down by rebels in myanmar. True capabilities of blunder aicraft getting exposed whenever deployed in a real battlefield


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1932488070609449021?t=be2BnlXJfK5jLlpI8v_EJw&s=19


View: https://x.com/Nikki66000460/status/1932337670048387129?t=9Th6oe-XBagengcGtxuLZw&s=19

this j-17 is a piece of shit, foolish of these countries to think it is a real warplane.

 

[snakeeyes07]

this j-17 is a piece of shit, foolish of these countries to think it is a real warplane.

Had it been any decent aircraft then PLAAF would have inducted it, they were still flying J7 and Q5 when JF17 was available.

 

[Decahex]

this j-17 is a piece of shit, foolish of these countries to think it is a real warplane.

Chinese weapons are usually used by countries that cannot afford the Russian or Western stuff or couldn't get their hands on smuggled Soviet era ones. Burma is one of the poorest country in Indian subcontinent/SEA region and that is seriously saying something. I'm only really concerned about their fifth generation fighter capabilities because it's better to overestimate an enemy and be prepared than to underestimate them and get caught sleeping.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Chinese weapons are usually used by countries that cannot afford the Russian or Western stuff or couldn't get their hands on smuggled Soviet era ones. Burma is one of the poorest country in Indian subcontinent/SEA region and that is seriously saying something. I'm only really concerned about their fifth generation fighter capabilities because it's better to overestimate an enemy and be prepared than to underestimate them and get caught sleeping.

Chinese 5th generation means 2-3 rd generation in real warplanes anything China claims is total BS . Why did they buy s-400 if hq9 was so great???

 

[Knowitall]

I wonder if IAF is waiting for PAF to clear its hangers that we stuck so that they can pickup sat images of what was inside to show as definitive proof of what we stuck.

Since we have not received any post op commentary yet on how many losses we have inflicted on them which to me honestly makes no sense in an era of information and narrative war.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Isn't it supposed to be equivalent of the S300?

Highly doubt it . Compared how s-300 radars have performed across 100’s of miles in Ukraine and compare hq9 radar performed right next door.
Russian weapons are not easily reversed engineered , they are not stupid to give away their
Bread and butter to the Chinese.( no one will)
Russians have highly developed countrrmeasures against jamming etc…. Chinese seem to have none??? Imagine this hq9 pile of junk against a real salvo it would be demolished. S300 has performed well against salvos in Syria to Ukraine.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Quick question for the experts. Is there any counter for ?

So basically Pak is screwed if we use ?


There is no economic growth without national security.

A measly 2% of the GDP is not enough to address the threats facing us from 2 of our beligerent neighbours, potentially 3 if we include Kangladesh.

We need to maintain superiority over the Napakis and credible deterrence against the Chink.

You cannot put a cost on national security. Billions of rupees in freebies and handouts can be curtailed to prioritise defence.

Useless endeavors like the caste census are an absolute waste of money and only serve appeasement politics.

There is no counter to and yes they are screwed if we use it.

There are counters, but the ones that can counter (mostly US systems) are not on offer to pakistanis, and chinese AD has been uniformly terrible for quite some time so neither of the two threats can do much unless they get lucky.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

There are counters, but the ones that can counter (mostly US systems) are not on offer to pakistanis, and chinese AD has been uniformly terrible for quite some time so neither of the two threats can do much unless they get lucky.

There really is no counter against . If you think THAAD you can forget it. Houtis from Yemen have penetrated it In Israel. Israelis decommissioned patriot and sent them to Ukraine ; they now mostly their own indigenous systems .

 

[Cereal Killer]

Chinese 5th generation means 2-3 rd generation in real warplanes anything China claims is total BS . Why did they buy s-400 if hq9 was so great???

That's hoping for the sake of hoping. Chinese can send Friggin rovers to Mars in its only first attempt and we are supposed to believe they don't have a functional 5th gen jet?
That's Paxtan level delusion sorry to say

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

There really is no counter against . If you think patriot or thaad you can forget it.

There really is no counter against . If you think THAAD you can forget it. Houtis from Yemen have penetrated it In Israel. Israelis decommissioned patriot and sent them to Ukraine ; they now mostly their own indigenous systems .

Why THAAD? That is a terminal anti ballistic system, completely unrelated to the question.... I'm not certain about whether patriot would work, but from our current understanding, US navy anti air is good enough for individual or even small salvo launches.

There are no "unstoppable forces" in war, a good system is a system that puts enemy in a tight spot. Bramhos, therefore, is a good weapon, but like everything else, isnt unstoppable.

As an example, bramhos, if fired at a ship, will give any fleet without direct AWACS coverage AT MOST 20-30* seconds of warning before it slams into a ship. 30 seconds is not much time, given that RN had said in a documentary about their operations near yemen recently that it took about 15 seconds to fire at incoming projectiles.

The ability to put any warship within 15 seconds from death is a terrifying one, and one that very few can defend from.



*Assuming 20m mast above waterline, mach 3 gives 20 seconds from horizon. Assuming 40 meter above waterline gives 30 seconds time.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

That's hoping for the sake of hoping. Chinese can send Friggin rovers to Mars in its only first attempt and we are supposed to believe they don't have a functional 5th gen jet?
That's Paxtan level delusion sorry to say

I will believe it when they can make a crystal turbine blade . Until then it’s all speculation We also sent a probe to mars and have no 5th generation plane. Seems going to mars is easier than making a 5th gen fighter???

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Why THAAD? That is a terminal anti ballistic system, completely unrelated to the question.... I'm not certain about whether patriot would work, but from our current understanding, US navy anti air is good enough for individual or even small salvo launches.

There are no "unstoppable forces" in war, a good system is a system that puts enemy in a tight spot. Bramhos, therefore, is a good weapon, but like everything else, isnt unstoppable.

As an example, bramhos, if fired at a ship, will give any fleet without direct AWACS coverage AT MOST 20-30* seconds of warning before it slams into a ship. 30 seconds is not much time, given that RN had said in a documentary about their operations near yemen recently that it took about 15 seconds to fire at incoming projectiles.

The ability to put any warship within 15 seconds from death is a terrifying one, and one that very few can defend from.



*Assuming 20m mast above waterline, mach 3 gives 20 seconds from horizon. Assuming 40 meter above waterline gives 30 seconds time.

Many weapons are not working like they claimed ? If all these systems were close to perfect how are Houtis defeating them with primitive rockets????

has an advantage of its speed . Very hard to stop something going Mach 3 and all the kinetic energy it has. 2 in development so no issues for for awhile. But I agree that you always have to think to the next one in warfare. No need for THAAD against rockets it may really be for future Iran war.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Why THAAD? That is a terminal anti ballistic system, completely unrelated to the question.... I'm not certain about whether patriot would work, but from our current understanding, US navy anti air is good enough for individual or even small salvo launches.

There are no "unstoppable forces" in war, a good system is a system that puts enemy in a tight spot. Bramhos, therefore, is a good weapon, but like everything else, isnt unstoppable.

As an example, bramhos, if fired at a ship, will give any fleet without direct AWACS coverage AT MOST 20-30* seconds of warning before it slams into a ship. 30 seconds is not much time, given that RN had said in a documentary about their operations near yemen recently that it took about 15 seconds to fire at incoming projectiles.

The ability to put any warship within 15 seconds from death is a terrifying one, and one that very few can defend from.



*Assuming 20m mast above waterline, mach 3 gives 20 seconds from horizon. Assuming 40 meter above waterline gives 30 seconds time.

in one or twos (or even small salvos) is not unstoppable. In Pakistani social media videos of IAF strikes, there were 2-3 interceptions (Jacobabad and Rafique). Not sure if these were , Scalp or ROCKS. But these were last second interceptions, so they got really lucky with these ones.

But if strikes with are employed sophistically, bigger salvos coinciding with loitering munitions and SEAD/DEAD strikes with Rudram 2 & 3, then they are unstoppable.

IAF has strategic depth, abundance of alternate airfields and airports in depth to disperse, PAF and even PLAAF (in Tibet only due to relatively less number of airfields) are vulnerable to such strikes.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Many weapons are not working like they claimed ? If all these systems were close to perfect how are Houtis defeating them with primitive rockets????

has an advantage of its speed . Very hard to stop something going Mach 3 and all the kinetic energy it has. 2 in development so no issues for for awhile. But I agree that you always have to think to the next one in warfare. No need for THAAD against rockets it may really be for future Iran war.

AFAIK, Houthi's only came close to the carrier once after months of operations. If houthis have not landed any hits in many months, the systems seem to be working fine.

Bramhos is an excellent system, no need to hype it up as a golden arrow. Such hype only makes it a propaganda tool incase enemy gets lucky and intercepts one.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

in one or twos (or even small salvos) is not unstoppable. In Pakistani social media videos of IAF strikes, there were 2-3 interceptions (Jacobabad and Rafique). Not sure if these were , Scalp or ROCKS. But these were last second interceptions, so they got really lucky with these ones.

But if strikes with are employed sophistically, bigger salvos coinciding with loitering munitions and SEAD/DEAD strikes with Rudram 2 & 3, then they are unstoppable.

IAF has strategic depth, abundance of alternate airfields and airports in depth to disperse, PAF and even PLAAF (in tibet only) are vulnerable to such strikes.

I agree completely. I will add, that my commentary about interception feasibility is also less applicable for near future threats, since pakistan AD is ludicrously anaemic and chinese AD is quite antiquated, their best systems being attempted duplicates of S300s.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

AFAIK, Houthi's only came close to the carrier once after months of operations. If houthis have not landed any hits in many months, the systems seem to be working fine.

Bramhos is an excellent system, no need to hype it up as a golden arrow. Such hype only makes it a propaganda tool incase enemy gets lucky and intercepts one.

There are reports that houtis may have hit an Israeli airport where THAAD and arrow were defending ( unconfirmed).

Yemeni Missile Hits Near Ben Gurion Airport: Israel Reports Injuries and Defense System Failure

ballistic missile launched by Yemen’s Houthis struck near Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv, injuring eigh.. Israeli-American air defense systems

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