Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (26 Viewers)

A Chauhan said:
AMCA can come sooner, technology is not problem here but funding and govt attitude is. If you feed peanuts to the developmental agencies then you get peanuts in return.
Click to expand...
It is the biggest obstacle.

India has completely avoided R&D on stealth-associated technologies for years.

The only right thing the Govt has done was to ask for a private partnership, given astronomically funding that is required for stealth R&D

Anechoic Chamber is the only technology we possess and maybe over time software designed for reduced observables can be built

Israel possesses every one of the below technologies. If Adani can fund and obtain the ToT from them, we may get lucky.

Then comes the challenges of integrating them and getting a functional fighter jet.
  • Devices for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity, ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures (i.e. stealth technology)
    • Radar absorbing material foams
      • low-dielectric foam (epoxy)
      • lightweight lossy foam (urethane)
      • sprayable lightweight foam (urethane)
      • thermoplastic foam (polytherimide)
    • Resistive Cards
    • Loaded ceramic spray tiles
    • Absorbing honeycomb
  • Systems, specially designed for radar cross section measurement
    • Anechoic Chamber
    • Target Support Devices
    • Bidirectional Arches
  • Materials for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity, ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures (i.e. stealth technology)
    • Magnetic Radar Absorbing Material
    • Transparent Radar Absorbent Material (T-RAM)
    • Infrared (IR) Treatments
  • "Software" specially designed for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity,ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures

1749666328066.webp

1749666339098.webp

1749666349310.webp

1749666363082.webp
1749666373714.webp

MTCR Annex Handbook 2017
 
LastMythin said:
Batting for su-57s fine and good, but the whole it will help AMCA thing is just delusional, It will slow down AMCA by a minimum of 5 years we dont have enough resources for both of them to go ahead at the same pace as expected.
Click to expand...
Does it really?

Would buying additional Rafales throw off the AMCA programme off track as well?

Don't you think having our hands on 5th gen tech enable us to learn valuable lessons for the AMCA programme? Isn't that how the Chinks have managed to have two 5th gen platforms ready already? By studying and dissecting foreign tech..
 
Noob_Saibot said:
With 5-10 years of work put in by India, why not?

Pakis will be getting their shi y new toys in not less than 3 years going by reports. China already can field hundreds of those (with somewhat untested capabilities).

If we get 50 odd units by 2028 or so, we will have enough to deter Pakis from gaining new found confidence to f*** us over (immediate threat), while the Chinks are more of a longer term threat.

I don't believe the Chinks will engage us directly any time soon, given what they have to lose economically. Let's not forget that India is a massive market for the Chinks as well.

'Off the shelf', they have enough capabilities to cool down any Paki ambitions of adventurism. In half a decade or so of work, they can be made more suitable for OUR needs, as to your point. We have enougb experience from the MKI programme to do it in shorter timespans.

The SU 57 is a big bird that is designed for counter stealth operations among other roles. That's not good news for the Pakis and the delusions of violating Indian air space through their soon to be acquired shiny new toys.
Click to expand...
I am more worried about the engine, al51s have still nor entered full production and i am worried we wont even get them anymore. Without them what is the point to deal.
As for the us developing our own variants over time that will just consume more time and resources that should be ideally going to AMCA and mk2. That is what i am worried the already limited technical and capex resources being built to bring su57s up to the standards we want them to is going to cost the AMCA. Also no way deliveries are starting before 28 no matter which model we go by. We are talking about 5 years on top of that.
 
LastMythin said:
I am more worried about the engine, al51s have still nor entered full production and i am worried we wont even get them anymore. Without them what is the point to deal.
As for the us developing our own variants over time that will just consume more time and resources that should be ideally going to AMCA and mk2. That is what i am worried the already limited technical and capex resources being built to bring su57s up to the standards we want them to is going to cost the AMCA. Also no way deliveries are starting before 28 no matter which model we go by. We are talking about 5 years on top of that.
Click to expand...

You think you are going to get the Ge414 when they aren't even delivering Apache?


View: https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1932785129518477696?t=lwMXIvStSNiDhZx_i5q5ng&s=19

Get whatever you can to help our tech even if it's not the best in the world. Take learnings and put it into AMCA.

Both have to go in parallel, we don't have much choice unless we can roll out AMCA by 2030.
 
shade2 said:
Chongs operate on the same mindset as the Amerisharts who want tools/vassals/satellites whatever you call them instead of allies.

Unlike Amerisharts however they won't force the other guy to bend the knee.

As of now things aren't bad that we have to join an "alliance".

Even after Galwan we were in no mood to turn Quad into Asian NATO, and as for Uncle Sam apart from external ungli there isn't much else, for now regime change and internal ungli seems to have been contained.

Current strategic autonomy fence sitting works well, i just hope we focus on strategic autonomy in defense also, fund kaveri and derivatives, get AMCA out on mission mode and start stocking up on Pralay type missiles.
Click to expand...
One of major issues with joining alliances is false sense of security a complacency of one of own defense industry.

Pakistan's SEATO/CENTO ended in them not developing the own domestic defense industry and also losing half their nation.
 
Noob_Saibot said:
Does it really?

Would buying additional Rafales throw off the AMCA programme off track as well?

Don't you think having our hands on 5th gen tech enable us to learn valuable lessons for the AMCA programme? Isn't that how the Chinks have managed to have two 5th gen platforms ready already? By studying and dissecting foreign tech..
Click to expand...
The xinese found themselves in a very lucky stage when they were developing their 5th gens and they could steal from anyone they wanted. The thing is the rest of the world is now more aware of such tactics and more willing to impose costs on people who engage in them we cant just get away with it.
Also we have no idea what tot russia is offering and how far along we are in developing our own. Knowing the ruzzians i am not hoping for anything to ground breaking.
Also a lot of our technical labs are understaffed and led by untalented govt appointees. Leveraging their already limited skills for one project is already a lot two i far too much for them. that is where i think the slowdown will come.
I am not not even talking about the money angle here, lets the leadership is willing to put n amount money into the program
 
Oldworld said:
It is the biggest obstacle.

India has completely avoided R&D on stealth-associated technologies for years.

The only right thing the Govt has done was to ask for a private partnership, given astronomically funding that is required for stealth R&D

Anechoic Chamber is the only technology we possess and maybe over time software designed for reduced observables can be built

Israel possesses every one of the below technologies. If Adani can fund and obtain the ToT from them, we may get lucky.

Then comes the challenges of integrating them and getting a functional fighter jet.
  • Devices for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity, ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures (i.e. stealth technology)
    • Radar absorbing material foams
      • low-dielectric foam (epoxy)
      • lightweight lossy foam (urethane)
      • sprayable lightweight foam (urethane)
      • thermoplastic foam (polytherimide)
    • Resistive Cards
    • Loaded ceramic spray tiles
    • Absorbing honeycomb
  • Systems, specially designed for radar cross section measurement
    • Anechoic Chamber
    • Target Support Devices
    • Bidirectional Arches
  • Materials for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity, ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures (i.e. stealth technology)
    • Magnetic Radar Absorbing Material
    • Transparent Radar Absorbent Material (T-RAM)
    • Infrared (IR) Treatments
  • "Software" specially designed for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity,ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures

View attachment 39069

View attachment 39070

View attachment 39071

View attachment 39072
View attachment 39073

MTCR Annex Handbook 2017
Click to expand...
If you have enough funds then you have increased chances of success. If stealth techs are that unknown to India then we wouldn't even have designed and planned AMCA, in my opinion we might already have developed the required stealth tech for AMCA though they may not be on the US levels but would be sufficient for producing such plane, many techs can be introduced and upgraded later as they develop it. Let's get a prototype as soon as we can, since now govt appears to be serious.

@mods kindly move AMCA related posts including this to AMCA thread. Thanks.
 
Nicky said:
Lets be honest, how long has AMCA been on the drawing board? Can we confidently claim it will go into production by 2035?

It's one opposition government being in power from being derailed.

Best use SU57 as stopgap and learn from it to incorporate into AMCA.
Click to expand...
A lot of institutions, research/testing facilities, skilled personnel and private players were non-existent until the advent of Tejas and it's deliveries leading upto 2017-18. The expertise in aerospace industry (or any other industry for that matter) is like an S-shaped curve where there are entire decades spent on institution building and very little progress in terms of research and production output. Then there are years where a couple of different aircrafts can be designed, developed and produced within years. It will absolutely not take India as long to roll out Tejas Mk2, AMCA and TEDBF as it did for Tejas Mk1. Don't cite the delays in Mk1A because the GE 404 facility had been shutdown and had to be restarted. HAL has a couple of airframes already ready to be fit with engines.

And as for the opposition government thing... By that logic, we shouldn't invest in anything at all and might as well scrap the project. What kind of a retarded argument is that? Do you think things will remain the same now as it is in 2025? Industrialism will be much more powerful then than it will be now. Fucking up with that will mean ruining the lives of hundreds of families and since opposition is socialist, that would create a major schism with worker and trade unions. If there are deals already in place for manufacturing come 2028, no government would dare to fuck with it.

The Su-57 is a shitty jet that the Russians themselves have shown little confidence in and have little ability to manufacture in appreciable quantities. It won't be a stop gap but a peer aircraft of AMCA by the time it is fully inducted, if at all it will be ordered. This sounds like the Mig-23/Mirage 2000 fiasco all over again with you dhoti shivering Su-57 dalals.
 
Nicky said:
You think you are going to get the Ge414 when they aren't even delivering Apache?


View: https://x.com/idrwalerts/status/1932785129518477696?t=lwMXIvStSNiDhZx_i5q5ng&s=19

Get whatever you can to help our tech even if it's not the best in the world. Take learnings and put it into AMCA.

Both have to go in parallel, we don't have much choice unless we can roll out AMCA by 2030.
Click to expand...

You seem to be under the impression that Russia will deliver orders promptly by the agreed upon timeline lol. The shit they pulled with INS Vikramaditya was dalylight robbery and they'll do it again with Su-57 if we let them.
 
Noob_Saibot said:
This white elephant bs again..

Let's face it, the su 57 is going to be the most capable bird in our inventory.

We shouldn't be reliant on American engines anyway. We can tweak the designs to accommodate euro or Russian engines, it's not the end of the world.

We have gotten away with buying the S400 before and chances are, we will again. Trump will be confined to the annals of history in a few years and the Republicans are going to be out of power.

National security is paramount. All of our economic development accounts for zilch if we are faced with security threats from Pakistan.

We need to maintain our superiority over Pak from a military perspective and cannot sit twiddling our thumbs while they acquire latest 5th gen tech.
Click to expand...
The main problem is that Russia is in midst of war. They themselves need 110% of their production capacity. How will they realistically send us anything?
 
When US wanted India to stop trade with Russia, We showed Middle finger to them and increased Russian oil purchase and trade. So it's a payback. Pakistan is not a US enemy, they will continue to support Pakistan. Just accept it and move on
 
Oldworld said:
It is the biggest obstacle.

India has completely avoided R&D on stealth-associated technologies for years.

The only right thing the Govt has done was to ask for a private partnership, given astronomically funding that is required for stealth R&D

Anechoic Chamber is the only technology we possess and maybe over time software designed for reduced observables can be built

Israel possesses every one of the below technologies. If Adani can fund and obtain the ToT from them, we may get lucky.

Then comes the challenges of integrating them and getting a functional fighter jet.
  • Devices for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity, ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures (i.e. stealth technology)
    • Radar absorbing material foams
      • low-dielectric foam (epoxy)
      • lightweight lossy foam (urethane)
      • sprayable lightweight foam (urethane)
      • thermoplastic foam (polytherimide)
    • Resistive Cards
    • Loaded ceramic spray tiles
    • Absorbing honeycomb
  • Systems, specially designed for radar cross section measurement
    • Anechoic Chamber
    • Target Support Devices
    • Bidirectional Arches
  • Materials for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity, ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures (i.e. stealth technology)
    • Magnetic Radar Absorbing Material
    • Transparent Radar Absorbent Material (T-RAM)
    • Infrared (IR) Treatments
  • "Software" specially designed for reduced observables such as radar reflectivity,ultraviolet/infrared signatures and acoustic signatures

View attachment 39069

View attachment 39070

View attachment 39071

View attachment 39072
View attachment 39073

MTCR Annex Handbook 2017
Click to expand...
1749670112598.webp

View: https://x.com/strategicfront/status/1391203788338368518?lang=ar-x-fm
 
Last edited:
LastMythin said:
My money on Iran strike, apparently non essential personnel are being moved from a lot of gulf state's us embassies
Click to expand...
Will it be Israel only strike or US-Israel joint strike?

I don't think Pakistan will allow US assets to be based in their territory for a strike on Iran. Because they can't keep this under wrap and then things will start imploding for Munir, after the budget there is a lot of anger in Punjab & Sindh under the surface.
 
snakeeyes07 said:
Will it be only Israel strike or US-Israel joint strike?

I don't think Pakistan will allow US assets be based in their territory for a strike on Iran. Because they can't keep this under wrap and then things will start imploding for Munir, after the budget there is a lot of anger in Punjab & Sindh under the surface.
Click to expand...
That is probably one of the reasons use is loaning the porkis so much money etc. Also from what i understand israel is going to strike the facilities and us jets are just going to hover to terrify and confuse the iranians in to striking them so they can fully engage in a limited war. But let's see what actually happens
 
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