Operation Sindoor and Aftermath (70 Viewers)

So, hitting non-military targets of a sovereign nation is not a declaration of war, but hitting military targets would be? LOL. Hitting non-military targets has higher consequences in international politics and arbitration!
This is such an absurd logic that even low IQ Pakistanis see through it.
Honestly, the International community takes sides depending upon their benefits and alliances and not on who is the aggressor?
Those strikes were designed within a counter terror construct. That's why all Indian statements were followed by declaration that Pak military was not the target and we will stop here if there is no Pakistani response.

Now that paradigm has changed and you will see that when things play out next time.

Also what do you mean by hitting non-military targets of a sovereign nation? Do you mean that Muridke and Bahawalpur complex which have been part of UN 1267 sanctions docket are just civilian targets? They are counter terror targets.

The Op Sindoor first phase hasn't ended the same way as Balakot/Swift Retort affair did, that time Pakistan could argue that some kind of deterrence had been established. But this time, PAF was in a bad spot by May 10th afternoon, multiple proclaimed red lines of Pakistan were crossed and Pak deterrence withered down.

The evidence of withering down of deterrence is the way Indian armed forces are now preparing for when Op Sindoor resumes. They are raring to go which is not the kind of behavior that is expected if any deterrence was imposed on them.
 
Last edited:
Asking a genuine questions :

Why Rafale's were not carrying Meteor ?

I have seen pictures of IAF Rafale's armed with Meteor. Why wasn't it used in Op Sindoor ? Without Meteor, our entire AF still faces the same disadvantage it had during Balakot. Astra Mk1 is inferior / same league to AMRAAMs.
 
Asking a genuine questions :

Why Rafale's were not carrying Meteor ?

I have seen pictures of IAF Rafale's armed with Meteor. Why wasn't it used in Op Sindoor ? Without Meteor, our entire AF still faces the same disadvantage it had during Balakot. Astra Mk1 is inferior / same league to AMRAAMs.
It could be because Rafale was not supposed to be used for A2A combat on May 6th . The rational which I speculate was to use our front line spear without any SEAD DEAD operation and assume that Pak won't respond (who assumed that I don't know whether it was IAF or MOD or babus) . Hence it only carried A2G weapons
This again is my theory , I could be wrong
 
lmao ded
They DID consider the possibility. Necessary precautions were taken to avoid any retaliation on the strike package, thus none were harmed.

What IAF didn't consider is PAF will later attack any and every jet flying within our own airspace, something akin to a complete war.

Lmao, this is jehad 101.

Charging like a raging bull and throwing everything you have even if it causes token damages only - all in the hopes of getting a war trophy.

Inbred aand forces do not fight like professionals, not that a bunch of jihadis in uniform are expected to, anyway!

Either way, unlike in the previous round (2019), SEAD/DEAD was conducted eventually and we did strike them in punjab proper wherever we wanted to and the IAF cooked Nuke storages/underground missile storages/runways/radars/hangars/control centres to their heart's content so there is that....
 
It could be because Rafale was not supposed to be used for A2A combat on May 6th . The rational which I speculate was to use our front line spear without any SEAD DEAD operation and assume that Pak won't respond (who assumed that I don't know whether it was IAF or MOD or babus) . Hence it only carried A2G weapons
This again is my theory , I could be wrong

Not a single Meteor was launched in Op Sindoor.
 
Seriously this is true ?
:pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta:


Here you had dalals telling us that Ruzzian engines have terrible MTBFO as compared to sooperior Western engines === better availability rate.

Kuch nahi hoga is desh ka, as long as it is limited to wrestling with the neighboring swine we are ok but once the Chang gathers his balls and attacks we are fucked.

If India had followed the roadmap for LCA as described below, India would have hundreds of LCAs in the inventory and maybe even few AMCAs and more.

a. LCA's aerospace design should have been compatible with AL-31 instead of GE-414
b. HAL should have started building LCAs with AL-31 engines manufactured in Russia
c. India and Russia should have signed a contract to manufacture AL-31 in India
d. LCAs should have started using Indian made AL-31s
e. AL-31 should have become the template for India's indigenous turbofan project

I strongly believe that India by now would have succeeded not only in mass producing LCAs but as well in coming up with its very own turbofan engine.
 
Sem2Sem type won't work because Pakistan isn't a Nation it's a terrorist factory where the common inbred janta is just cannon fodder for Army. Unless the army brats or their closer one face the fire, they won't budge an eye how many avg joe paki inbred dies.
RAA needs to create more chaos in Porkistan .
 
This is my take on the whole situation. Jaishankar, MEA babus were responsible for the whole “do not hit Porki military” nonsense. After hearing the CDS, looks like he did a “Pak military operates with honor and are gentlemen”. Jaishankar went overboard with the idea of “let’s make it clear even to Pornistan that we are only hitting terrorists”. Instead of setting up a firm stand that porki army is the terrorist org and we are going directly after the snake, we are doing this nonsense of “targeting terrorists only”. JeM and LeT are basically “mujahideen” battalions of Porki Army. Poliostan government even compensated these terrorists for the losses suffered. I think leader Ji statement that we will no longer differentiate between porki army and terrorists happened because he realized that the stupid, failed idea of MEA that porki army and terrorists are two different groups, and that porki army will understand our attacks on terror installations, completely backfired on Day 1 of Op Sindoor leading to asset losses. Basically the CCS did not get convinced that porki army and terrorists are the same group. MEA I am sure had a big role to play in that confusion.
Note how Jaishankar has not been active after Op Sindoor. And CDS statement in Singapore caused anger in India. I think their guidance proved wrong. And Sashi Tharoor was sent over to explain things.
Shah, Doval, Nirmala - all members of CCS - are laying low, most likely because the CCS got it completely wrong that they would get international “good boy” pats by putting out views like “we won’t attack pakoda army and only terrorists”. International kommunity especially tanTrump did not give a shite about that nuance. They did not even care about the genocide of Hindus. They were concerned about the Israel-Iran and Ukraine-Russia wars. The world did not care about Hindu deaths as much.
Hard lesson for India’s babus and CCS on how international powers behave. Trying to act all righteous and goody-goody does not work all the time. Sometimes might is right and you need to hit back decisively establishing permanent deterrence. Yes we will suffer some losses but the enemy needs to be brought to their knees with a big white flag in their hands for the whole world to see.
 
Last edited:
i would rather take 3 jet losses than getting 11 of my main airbases bombarded along with my air defence getting destroyed or supressed. We must understand that the loss of fighter jets has tactical implications while important airbases deep inside a country getting bombarded along with a rumored attack on nuclear installation(s) has strategic implications also the loss of jets was due to our foolishness(not doing sead) rather than their capability.
I mean is that even a discussion? This is the effective summary of Operation Sindoor :

May 07 / 08 - India launches Operation Sindoor, successfully attacks all the terrorist camps it wanted, but lost 2-3 jets because of IAF not being allowed SEAD / DEAD. Despite tactical losses, India achieved its targets. At the least one can call this day a pyrrhic victory.

May 08 / 09 - Pakis try to retaliate, trying to attack Indian military bases with loitering munitions and drones. India destroyed all of the drones => no damage anywhere. Pakis failed to achieve any objective and India successfully thwarted all attacks.

May 09 - India retaliates to failed Paki operation with SEAD / DEAD operations. Indian drones score air defence kill Lahore (clear photos of radar as proof) and likely at Karachi (because Paki AD stopped working there for rest of the war). At least 3-4 several long range Paki radars destroyed. IAF showed clear proof of that. If Pakis wanted to dispute, they could have simply posted photographs of still existing radars, but they didn't. India again achieved tactical success while Pakis failed to stop attacks.

May 09 / 10 - Pakistan launches Operation Bunyan Al Marsoos (or whatever). Attacks S-400 site, Brahmos launcher site and other Indian defence bases with drones, rocket artillery and missiles. NO DAMAGE in India to those attacked sites. Nothing. Every missile and drone was shot down. Though IAF accepted minor damages to 4-5 sites, most likely because of falling debris (one AD personnel was killed because of debris). Pakis DGMO showed dubious photographs, claiming to be hits on S-400. Anyone who believes so after seeing the photographs needs to get his brain checked. NOT A SINGLE MISSILE IMPACT IN INDIA. OTOH, there is a clear photographic proof of a 40N6E missile of S-400 suggesting the missile hit something (most likely AWACS or refueller). A hit is more likely because the missile had exploded, it was not intact. Another tactical failure for Pakis.

May 09 / 10 - In response to the operation, India launched direct attacks on Paki air bases. 11 air bases were confirmed attacked with several runways disabled and several hangars hit. Several other which IAF didn't show were also likely hit. Nuclear sites at Kirana hills were hit, may be symbolically. Though IAF has denied that, the video evidence definitely suggests otherwise. This was a major tactical victory for IAF. It strongly showed that India can thwart any Paki attack and hit Pakistan at its will with precision. It showed that PAF may have scored 2-3 aircraft hits at the beginning due to restricted ROE, but once the air fight got serious, Paki J-10, PL-15, etc etc had their tail tucked and disappeared. I am still amused as to to what happened on that night that PAF jets just failed to do anything other than half hearted attack on Indian territory. C&C trucks were confirmed destroyed at Nur Khan base as shown by satellite images (mistaken to be fuel trucks in early analysis by some). Since the trucks were destroyed, some personnel were likely killed too as this was the first air base hit. AWACS was likely hit at Bholari as the wing commander was killed. One more C&C building was hit at another air base (I forgot the name), where Wing Loon was said to be stationed.


The most common cope from Pakis and Indian redittors I have seen is "well we just hit empty buildings and runways, which can be repaired anytime". Dude, whole of their airbases had aircraft parked in open during the entire conflict, which can be seen in satellite photos, and you claim that the hangars were empty? No common sense at all? You mean to say that Pakis left their aircraft in open outside but mysteriously shifted the jets inside to some other location? Pakis definitely lost some FAs in those hangars.


The most significant achievement and strategic victory for IAF was to thwart every Paki attack and then hitting Paki sites at will and with precision. It showed clear Indian dominance in the conflict. By morning of May 10, Pakis had likely realised that they are about to lose so big if this goes on, that even their propaganda machinery will not be able to spin the narrative in their favour. IN was also breathing down at Karachi. Their attacks didn't have anything to show while their bases were attacked with impunity, losing personnel and most likely jets. Thus they begged for cease fire and decided to fight in the domain where they are good, ie the propaganda war.

If anyone knows this summary and still thinks that Pakis had upper hand in the conflict and that they won, well I doubt they are capable to think rationally at all, let alone defence knowledge.
 
I mean is that even a discussion? This is the effective summary of Operation Sindoor :

May 07 / 08 - India launches Operation Sindoor, successfully attacks all the terrorist camps it wanted, but lost 2-3 jets because of IAF not being allowed SEAD / DEAD. Despite tactical losses, India achieved its targets. At the least one can call this day a pyrrhic victory.

May 08 / 09 - Pakis try to retaliate, trying to attack Indian military bases with loitering munitions and drones. India destroyed all of the drones => no damage anywhere. Pakis failed to achieve any objective and India successfully thwarted all attacks.

May 09 - India retaliates to failed Paki operation with SEAD / DEAD operations. Indian drones score air defence kill Lahore (clear photos of radar as proof) and likely at Karachi (because Paki AD stopped working there for rest of the war). At least 3-4 several long range Paki radars destroyed. IAF showed clear proof of that. If Pakis wanted to dispute, they could have simply posted photographs of still existing radars, but they didn't. India again achieved tactical success while Pakis failed to stop attacks.

May 09 / 10 - Pakistan launches Operation Bunyan Al Marsoos (or whatever). Attacks S-400 site, Brahmos launcher site and other Indian defence bases with drones, rocket artillery and missiles. NO DAMAGE in India to those attacked sites. Nothing. Every missile and drone was shot down. Though IAF accepted minor damages to 4-5 sites, most likely because of falling debris (one AD personnel was killed because of debris). Pakis DGMO showed dubious photographs, claiming to be hits on S-400. Anyone who believes so after seeing the photographs needs to get his brain checked. NOT A SINGLE MISSILE IMPACT IN INDIA. OTOH, there is a clear photographic proof of a 40N6E missile of S-400 suggesting the missile hit something (most likely AWACS or refueller). A hit is more likely because the missile had exploded, it was not intact. Another tactical failure for Pakis.

May 09 / 10 - In response to the operation, India launched direct attacks on Paki air bases. 11 air bases were confirmed attacked with several runways disabled and several hangars hit. Several other which IAF didn't show were also likely hit. Nuclear sites at Kirana hills were hit, may be symbolically. Though IAF has denied that, the video evidence definitely suggests otherwise. This was a major tactical victory for IAF. It strongly showed that India can thwart any Paki attack and hit Pakistan at its will with precision. It showed that PAF may have scored 2-3 aircraft hits at the beginning due to restricted ROE, but once the air fight got serious, Paki J-10, PL-15, etc etc had their tail tucked and disappeared. I am still amused as to to what happened on that night that PAF jets just failed to do anything other than half hearted attack on Indian territory. C&C trucks were confirmed destroyed at Nur Khan base as shown by satellite images (mistaken to be fuel trucks in early analysis by some). Since the trucks were destroyed, some personnel were likely killed too as this was the first air base hit. AWACS was likely hit at Bholari as the wing commander was killed. One more C&C building was hit at another air base (I forgot the name), where Wing Loon was said to be stationed.


The most common cope from Pakis and Indian redittors I have seen is "well we just hit empty buildings and runways, which can be repaired anytime". Dude, whole of their airbases had aircraft parked in open during the entire conflict, which can be seen in satellite photos, and you claim that the hangars were empty? No common sense at all? You mean to say that Pakis left their aircraft in open outside but mysteriously shifted the jets inside to some other location? Pakis definitely lost some FAs in those hangars.


The most significant achievement and strategic victory for IAF was to thwart every Paki attack and then hitting Paki sites at will and with precision. It showed clear Indian dominance in the conflict. By morning of May 10, Pakis had likely realised that they are about to lose so big if this goes on, that even their propaganda machinery will not be able to spin the narrative in their favour. IN was also breathing down at Karachi. Their attacks didn't have anything to show while their bases were attacked with impunity, losing personnel and most likely jets. Thus they begged for cease fire and decided to fight in the domain where they are good, ie the propaganda war.

If anyone knows this summary and still thinks that Pakis had upper hand in the conflict and that they won, well I doubt they are capable to think rationally at all, let alone defence knowledge.
So why did we not ask Poliostan Army to make a public statement that they would work with India to bring all the terrorists to justice? What was the hurry to do a ceasefire in a hurried, silent mode? Why was it important to give Trump a PR victory? If we had Porkis on their knees, we should have dictated the ceasefire terms and made them agree to each term publicly. In this Information Age, public perception matters a lot.
 
Seriously this is true ?
:pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta: :pmegusta:


Here you had dalals telling us that Ruzzian engines have terrible MTBFO as compared to sooperior Western engines === better availability rate.

Kuch nahi hoga is desh ka, as long as it is limited to wrestling with the neighboring swine we are ok but once the Chang gathers his balls and attacks we are fucked.
Russians can do better what Americans do, and that too at a cheaper cost.
 
So, anyone from Dhando lovers club want to discuss what Indonesian defence attaché is saying, or is he lying?
 

Why are we still in this farce called the quad?

What is even the point of this 'alliance' when we got zero support for Op Sindoor or any punitive action against Terroristan?

We are still trying to lick Americunt arse when they are basically cosying up with Terroristan.

We need to withdraw from thus fucking joke of an alliance, pronto.
Because some people in GoI aka Chaye-Shankar are having wet dreams of a strategic partnership with the biggest enemy of India, aka YouEssAye.
 
Not a single Meteor was launched in Op Sindoor.
FS Misri was saying from day one that we attacked only terrorist bases and our actions were non-escalatory in nature, this was the case till the day of Ceasefire.

On 7th, we attacked their terrorist bases, and I don't know what level of mental gymnastics they did to come up with the plan to not attack Pakistani bases and expected them not to attack either.
Guess we didn't want to be painted as aggressor or enter into a drawn out conflict(likely due to economic concerns) MEA presser next morning talks about the steps being non-escalatory.
 
So why did we not ask Poliostan Army to make a public statement that they would work with India to bring all the terrorists to justice?
Man what kind of question is this? 😂 Pakis are not going to do this until we inflict 1971 level defeat on them. You think they will accept they sponsor terrorists and give up sponsoring terrorism? This is the only tool left in their arsenal to poke us.

What was the hurry to do a ceasefire in a hurried, silent mode? Why was it important to give Trump a PR victory?
There was no cease fire in "hurried, silent mode". That was our stance since May 07 when we first attacked terrorist camps.

If we had Porkis on their knees, we should have dictated the ceasefire terms and made them agree to each term publicly.
Oh we had Pakis on their knees, but not at the level that they would just agree to whatever we say. That would have happend if the conflict continued. I am unable to understand your questions till now. You want to dictate terms which one can only dictate after having a major victory in full fledged war, not a 4 day limited conflict.

In this Information Age, public perception matters a lot.
Yeah, though the reality doesn't depend on perception, we need to work on this front.
 
So, anyone from Dhando lovers club want to discuss what Indonesian defence attaché is saying, or is he lying?
It was obvious from day one that we had lost aircrafts that too in our airspace and numbers were beyond 2
Point is we didn't want a war type situation because 26 is not the threshold for our govt
What they expected was some pathetic swift retort type situation like in 2019 as both the nations cant fight for various reasons and most importantly both the nations are amriki dalals

But pakis responded harshly despite it failed but it was severe escalation firing drones into civilian areas, firing BMs on our airbases After that we all know what happened

Point is they dont know how to control the narrative
Either u disclose the loss and face whatsoever after it or hide it collectively
Not like every person saying different things and letting enemy to control your narrative so even if we disclose our loses no one will believe us
Infact entire CCS did chutiyapa thinking pakis will play fare game of "respecting airspace"

Moreover military guys enjoy that luxury to comment on govt's inactivity and mistakes but no one from govt can blame them for their mess
 
Man what kind of question is this? 😂 Pakis are not going to do this until we inflict 1971 level defeat on them. You think they will accept they sponsor terrorists and give up sponsoring terrorism? This is the only tool left in their arsenal to poke us.


There was no cease fire in "hurried, silent mode". That was our stance since May 07 when we first attacked terrorist camps.


Oh we had Pakis on their knees, but not at the level that they would just agree to whatever we say. That would have happend if the conflict continued. I am unable to understand your questions till now. You want to dictate terms which one can only dictate after having a major victory in full fledged war, not a 4 day limited conflict.


Yeah, though the reality doesn't depend on perception, we need to work on this front.
If we really had them on their knees, we would have dictated terms. We did not. Why did we not proceed toward a battle situation that forced them to publicly beg? Why did we hurriedly call off if we had complete air superiority? What gains did we achieve in return for calling off? This is what irritates me about bhajipao’s approach. They have not said why they called it off without extracting any strategic gains. Signing alone won’t work with Porkis. They respond to tangible losses like loss of territory, loss of face, loss of honor and dignity etc. We could not get any of that with our air superiority for 3 days? Something is off here. I think the CCS is not working well with different people saying different things and a firm, unified response getting diluted. Modi should not have allowed for a secret ceasefire. He should have done something that made Porki Army cry in front of their people. The idea is to bring down the worth of Polio Army on front of Pakodastanis. The CCS did not seem to have a clue about how to fight a war. They just go in without a thought as to how to create permanent deterrence. It seems more like “ok we have done some tit for tat for this terrorist barbaric act” and when another one happens we will deal with that. It is transactional and nothing strategic on how to degrade Porkistan’s war fighting ability long term. Look at how Israel and the US permanently degrade abilities of their enemies. Do we even think like this? Leader ji does not seem to be. He seems to quickly close off a superior position we had and wait for the next time. This is a BAD idea.
 
Asking a genuine questions :

Why Rafale's were not carrying Meteor ?

I have seen pictures of IAF Rafale's armed with Meteor. Why wasn't it used in Op Sindoor ? Without Meteor, our entire AF still faces the same disadvantage it had during Balakot. Astra Mk1 is inferior / same league to AMRAAMs.

Have discussed this to death here.
Nope. Only last year German and Italian Air Forces operationalised the Meteors after tests. We are yet to. The image of our Rafale carrying it is of in-flight testing most likely in France. No image exists of it being used operationally.


If we actually had it porkis would've never dared come close to the strike package. We struck their radar sites with kamikaze drones on 8th and used stand-off missiles to simultaneously target their air bases on 9th and10th.
View attachment 37982
 
If we really had them on their knees, we would have dictated terms. We did not. Why did we not proceed toward a battle situation that forced them to publicly beg? Why did we hurriedly call off if we had complete air superiority? What gains did we achieve in return for calling off?
They respond to tangible losses like loss of territory, loss of face, loss of honor and dignity etc. We could not get any of that with our air superiority for 3 days?

Not going to engage you again on this point.
  1. Our purpose of the conflict was not to dictate terms nor to gain any territory. It was simply to demonstrate conventional superiority. Which we did.
  2. I don't understand how difficult it is to understand this. Our stance, from beginning, was that we don't want the conflict to escalate. Hence when Pakis begged for cease fire, they got it.
  3. As to loss of face, if anyone neutrally evaluates this conflict with proper evidences, they will understand who had the upper hand.

Something is off here. I think the CCS is not working well with different people saying different things and a firm, unified response getting diluted. Modi should not have allowed for a secret ceasefire. He should have done something that made Porki Army cry in front of their people. The idea is to bring down the worth of Polio Army on front of Pakodastanis. The CCS did not seem to have a clue about how to fight a war. They just go in without a thought as to how to create permanent deterrence. It seems more like “ok we have done some tit for tat for this terrorist barbaric act” and when another one happens we will deal with that. It is transactional and nothing strategic on how to degrade Porkistan’s war fighting ability long term. Look at how Israel and the US permanently degrade abilities of their enemies. Do we even think like this? Leader ji does not seem to be. He seems to quickly close off a superior position we had and wait for the next time. This is a BAD idea.
There was no secret cease fire. Our stance from beginning was that we will be the one with final attack. The govt is not in the mood to fight prolonged wars because it affects economic growth, as said by CDS. And personally I completely agree with this. You may not, its your prerogative, but don't expect full fledged war with Pakis until we have plateaued our economic growth. Israel & US are developed nations with deep pockets, we are not. Plus their conventional superiority over their enemies is overwhelming and decisive. We OTOH face 2 front war with capable enemies. Don't expect our response to be same as US or Israel.
 
FS Misri was saying from day one that we attacked only terrorist bases and our actions were non-escalatory in nature, this was the case till the day of Ceasefire.

On 7th, we attacked their terrorist bases, and I don't know what level of mental gymnastics they did to come up with the plan to not attack Pakistani bases and expected them not to attack either.
Guess we didn't want to be painted as aggressor or enter into a drawn out conflict(likely due to economic concerns) MEA presser next morning talks about the steps being non-escalatory.

tell me if this info below gives clarity on why the players in the game behaved the way they did.
keep MEA aside, would you take the chance if you were in national security council secretariat?
====
In 2002, Lieutenant General Khalid Kidwai, head of Pakistan’s Strategic Plans Division (SPD), publicly outlined four key nuclear redlines, a rare clarification of Pakistan’s otherwise ambiguous doctrine. These redlines, as discussed in Pakistani strategic circles, were:


  1. Spatial Threshold: If Indian forces penetrate deep into Pakistani territory, threatening significant territorial losses.
  2. Military Threshold: If India destroys a large part of Pakistan’s land or air forces, crippling its conventional capabilities.
  3. Economic Threshold: If India imposes an economic blockade, such as a naval blockade, strangling Pakistan’s economy.
  4. Political Threshold: If India destabilizes Pakistan internally, through subversion or incitement of large-scale unrest.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Replies

Featured Content

Trending Threads

Back
Top