Operation Sindoor

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abhijat said:
Is it only me or someone else too feel psychologically violated after this episode. It feels like a well played & directed script, which can give any sas bahu serial kadi takkar.
How come at the end of battle everyone was able to gain something? paki being paki (let's forget about them for a second),
India - IT Cell - Modiji Shahanshah!! & lot's of meme materials for next 5 years ,
DRDO & Army : chalo aab forum wale kam se kam 6 mahine tak gali no nahe denge,(but seriously they are the real winner.SALUTE)
IT Coolie: hurray!! IPL is back, and,

Ofcourse Trump babu got his ego stoked up.

The only losers were we people(bagal wale bhe).

Chalo iss week ka entertainment pura hua next episode ke taraf aab badhate hai.

Hey ishwar hum kuch nahe karte hai , wo tu he karwata hai. Prabhu inn papi Bhakto ko maaf kare , hum Dharm aur Karm bhul chuke hai. Yahe Kalyuga hai.

Always remember the night of 10th, keep quiet, be silent, learn, observe, and teach your children, make them skilfully in one strategic art, cultivate independent decision making capability in them so that they can independently do service for the nation , been in here or outside, devoid of any political or babudom help.

Just last line of thought - Try to find out the quantum of inter-marriages between babudom and political class.

Om Shanti 🙏🙏
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naah, i started giving gaali to babus and hal people just after the ceasefire understanding

we people will continue to lead the movement for increase in funding for drdo and more test beds
 
pipebomb said:
I do have a hot take about the "off-ramp". I think we were not fully committed to a full blown war not because of pakis but because a full blow war would've weaken us military and more important economically which china wanted

Now is the time to bring out the red carpet for companies leaving china because of trump tarrif. THAT WOULD BE OUR STRATEGIC VICTORY
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Yes, this is the one reason. And the second reason may be that we are not capable and prepared for 2nd and 3rd front..
 
samsaptaka said:
2 words - kahuta airstrike
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3 words : Did it happen?

Actions have consequences. Porkies just learnt it. Had Mrs. Gandhi not vetoed it, we might have learnt the impact of the consequences of striking an US ally during the peak of cold war.

If you know history, you would know Pakistan was a strong military power almost equal on pound to pound basis. It is just since the end of cold war, the past misdeeds have caught up with them and their economy and military both began to backslide.

It wouldn't have been an as easy job as Israelis had with Iran.
 
I have been trying the entire night to think and organize my thoughts on this entire situation.

This is what I could come up with.

What were India's Aims ?

To punish the perpetrators of the Pahalgam attack.

There are three. One is the terrorists who actually executed the attack, second is the organizations behind them i.e the Tanzeems and third is the backers i,e Pak Military.

The terrorists are yet to be caught. But they will be caught eventually and die a dog's death. The result of the pahalgam attack is that it has completely changed the way the government will deal with internal security now. I suspect Papa2 will make a reappearance alongside revised SOPs dealing with OGWs.

The Tanzeems have been publicly and brutally humiliated. Asim munna might be doing propaganda for his awaam now, but he will have to answer to the irregular troops pf the Pak army . i.e terrorists

The Pakistani Military is the one that got the most brutal spanking of all.



Just imagine, a week ago the following would be stuff of fever dreams of the most ardent jingoist on these forums.

a. PGM and missile strikes on the HQ s of terrorists in fcking MAINLAND PUNJAB.

b. Air Defense that allowed us to shrug of anything the pakis threw at us. AD is the Man of the Match here. We have intercepted fcking Ballistic Missiles!

c. Drone strikes on Pak military assets stationed in MAINLAND PUNJAB, in their cities like Lahore, Islamabad and others in full view of the Paki public crying " Ya Allah Madad! "

d. When the Pakis tried the same with us, we managed to intercept them without much cost, which is the most critical aspect. Upgraded Old AA guns swatting these drones was very good Return on Investment, as it kept the cost of engagement and neutralization absolutely low. The main nuisance of drone warfare and its USP is the asymmetric cost for the attacker (low) and defender(high). Indian military performed superbly, I suspect every one has taken note of the same. I expect heightened budget allocation and improved AD would be on top of the things to be improved.

e. The most unbelievable one is the strikes with BrahMos on PAF premier airbases, where the IAF has bypassed their AD with impunity and struck the following bases in MAINLAND PUNJAB AND SINDH.

Rafiqui-Murid-Chaklala-Rahim Yar Khan-Sukkur-Chunian -Radar site in Pasrur -Aviation base in Sialkot.

f. The absolute legendary ones would be the strikes on Kirana Hill Nuke storage site in Sargodha and Bhola AFB, I suspect this strike along with Noor Khan as per reports coming since morning, are the ones that panicked the Pakis and the Americans.

Why ? Read this.


View: https://x.com/hukum2082/status/1921418274195243160

and this.


View: https://x.com/elitepredatorss/status/1921471576182010350

Whether Pakistanis threatened Nuclear use against India needs to be seen, especially in light of Trump’s comments mentioning the lives of “Millions of people”.

So, the Paki Military is adequately punished but their mentality is they would rather launch nukes sooner than accept defeat. ( more on this later)


Manage the information narrative.

This one is a mixed bag. They were on top of things, but then dropped the ball at the last second. It created optics whereby it looked like Trump was dictating things to India. I will talk about this in the consequences part of this post.


Protect India's hard-won economic gains and future investment and industry transfer that is going to happen from China to India.

This whole attack was suspicious from the start. From Muneera making that jihadi speech, to the sheer brutality and methodic targeting of Hindus in the attack. It was designed to cause maximum outrage and trigger immediate retaliation.

I don't think people grasp this enough. The flowchart was as follows.

Attack-> retaliation by enraged India-> Swift retard by Pakis-> nuke bogey-> byebye investment.

This would be a far more catastrophic destruction of India's prospects of a long term economic prosperity than nuking a city in India. So, avoiding that at all costs was the core aim. Hence, the emphasis on "proportionality" in all MEA briefings. We were always ready for a ceasefire provided Pakistan de escalated first. Which they did.

Not letting Pakistan get the last punch in before cessation of hostilities.

This one is a failure and it is by no fault of Modi or anybody Indian. I elaborate why below and whether they will rectify it later remains to be seen.

There is two other critical aspects that people are missing or underestimating. One aspect is the sheer success of the IAF and the absolute vulnerability of the Pak Mil bases. We attacked them wherever and whenever we wanted. I think that caught both China and US off guard. Both saved their Munna from the big bad Tilakdhari Hindu. But for different reasons.

The other aspect is the ongoing negotiations for a "reset" between Trump and Xi in Switzerland. Trump is trying to make a deal with China and I think one of the asks of the Chinese was cutting Modi and India down to size in order for China to remain top dog in Asia, at least in terms of perception.

How did he do it?

By announcing the ceasefire before Modi and the kind of language used by him in his message. It caught India off guard as we didn't expect it to be announced by Trump. Then, as soon as we agreed to it as it was under negotiation anyway, the Pakis broke the ceasefire. After the announcement by Trump and his chest thumping which I suspect was by design, Pakistan broke the ceasefire in a manner that was visible but damage contained. Trump was then daring us to respond, because if we did we would be insulting him and that will have economic consequences and would go counter to our aim as stated below.

The Gloom which we saw in the MEA Briefing last night was not because we have lost the initiative or that we were played. I think it was the realization that Trump just threw us under the bus to appease China for his "RESET".


This will have consequences, but more on that below.

Now coming for the consequences of this entire week of events.

India.

1. A Profound realization that we are alone and can expect no support in dismantling Pakistan from anybody else. Pakistan is just a cheap and convenient rent whore that is very useful in bogging India down and nobody is letting them go anytime soon.



2. A spree of Re-armament of the IAF, IA and IN with the lessons learned during this conflict. IAF will get more Jets, Refuellers, AWACs and Air Defense investment. Upgrading of the rest 800 L70s, maybe manufacturing some new ones and upgrading them too to create a layered Counter drone defense. Fast tracking of Kusha Air defense System ( Desi-S400), Hypersonic missile programs and most importantly, the Jet Engine Program.

3. Short term hit to Modi's political capital, but I think that Pakistanis will do another terror attack in India and then the response to them will rejuvenate him. India will NEVER trust the US again and I think our foreign policy and defense choices will reflect that. BYE BYE F35 MC TRUMP.

I think our strategic and Foreign policy establishment will be on overdrive to subtly decouple our critical mil tec from USA. No overt chest thumping in your face moves, just subtle changes that will manifest over time

4. Manifestation of Fortress India and Demonstration of Indian reach into SEAsia and Middle East:

India is the only country to have bombed another nuclear power's mainland and airbases in a highly contested air defense environment. THE ONLY. Not even US has that notch in its belt. The way we have bombed Pakistani Airbases and Terror camps with impunity over the last 3 days, every power from Saudi Arabia in west to the Vietnamese and Indonesians are on notice.

That is because we might make light of Pakis by calling them beggars, but they are a very capable force and the only reason they are painted to be beggars is because of how absolutely Gigantic we are. if we remove India and China from the equation, they will be in the top tiers of Military forces in Asia. There is NO force, not even Iran that can roll over the Pakistanis including Saudis and whoever else.

So if we can roll them over and make them our bitch in 3 days, what about the rest? Food for thought for those countries and they must be right now furiously re calculating and recalibrating a lot of things behind the scenes.

We have demonstrated top tier air defense against even the latest in warfare, i.e drones and the lessons learnt will be implemented and the necessary procurements will be made. The end result will be the Indian mainland will be made impregnable to missiles and drones with investments made in Air defense and Radar systems.

Pakistan

1. Short term instability in politics and army.

They might have conned their awaam but the fauj and the disgruntled generals know how Pakfauj was stripped naked and all its Redlines turned into dust. This will have consequences for Muneer. Assassination of Muneer on the extreme ends or Deposed as a middle tier response can not be ruled out. Asim Muneer right now is the most insecure and paranoid man in Pakistan right now, because every one wants his blood.

The very existence of PakMil is dependant on the ability to strike India, and the way they got brutally raped, there are bound to be grumblings about the leadership in PakMil now. Asim Muneer needs a distraction. So, what options does he have ? Execution of Imran Khan?, Martial Law? Another Terror Attack?

And for those whining about the Pakistanis declaring Victory, this is a country that declared it won in 1965 and 1971. They would sooner launch nukes than be seen to admit defeat against India. What did you expect? A televised admission of defeat and execution of Asim Muneer?

2. Trump indicated that he would trade with BOTH India and Pakistan, meaning US and China both will arm Pakistan now and they will rebuild the PakMil to one again be able to resist India. India will arm up accordingly. Side effect of the same will be the negation of Cheeni Bargaining power of 2 front war as the Indian State apparatus will take into account the entire 2.5 front war and will arm up accordingly, including the strengthening of the internal security domain. There will be broad based support for the same across the political lines in India.

Also we need to come to terms with the reality that Nuclear weapons are a guarantor of state existence and despite our dreams its not realistic to destroy the existence of a nuclear power with brute military force and coercion. So, India will engage in a broad based campaign of Economic and Water Strangulation and active support to the centrifugal forces in Pakistan in order to speed up the process of state collapse. We will be using that collapse to show the bogey of Pakistani nukes falling into the hands of the “Wrong people” as a fig leaf to get the world involved in the denuclearisation of Pakistan.

3. Negation of the Pakistani Nuclear Blackmail

By attacking Sargodha airbase and crippling their ability to transport and deploy nukes, along with the Bunker buster dropped into the kirana hills nuke storage site, we have comprehensively negated the Pakistani nuclear blackmail.

Now, we know that we can pound the PakMil assets, installations and infrastructure with conventional munitions publicly and with great bombast, but they would not go for nukes.

The entire business of Pakistani nukes on hair trigger alert, just waiting to be launched into India as soon as India even crosses LOC or IB is done. Now for every terror attack, Pak will get public pounding of its Mil assets and Infra, and they will not reply with nukes. This broadens and expands the options available to the political leadership immensely. It is sure to give sleepless nights to the terror planners at ISI HQ.


4. Comprehensive Campaign of Economic strangulation

Indian moves of cancelling IWT, Banning of Pak media, SM and basically stopping even trade through third party countries will cause a significant reduction of quality of life to the avg Middle class Pakistani and the poor class along with skyrocketing inflation. Pakistan’s economy which is agrarian and heavily dependent on Water from the Indus rive system means that Agriculture productivity in Pakistan would be entirely at the mercy of India with 100 % control of waters in as little as 3-5 years, meaning well within the timescale of 2029 GE so even before the current govt remits office. Feasibility studies for the new dams are already being undertaken and on priority by Union Jal Shakti Ministry, with talk of clearances being bypassed on national security grounds.

All of us remember the scenes of shortage of Atta and essential food items in Pakistan and how we made fun of them for the same. At that time PakMil felt for the first time in its existence the real danger of state collapse because of lack of basic necessities. Its answer was to acquire hundreds of thousands of acres of fertile agricultural land in southern Punjab and do large scale “Corporate Farming” to supply itself of the food and other necessities. They invested significant amounts of money into the same. Now that entire investment and idea is shot because all the waters of the northern rivers are being targeted by India for absorption into its own Agriculture sector.

The only thing Pakistan has to look forward to is becoming a water insecure and Food importing nation. And with the coming de globalization and supply chain collapse of agri enablers like fertilizers, famine just became a very real possibility within 5 years.

Consequences for the rest of the world.

United States of America

Most people don’t grasp that Modi is most pro-western PM we have, and this entire fiasco will have left him deeply distrusting of any deals or understanding with US in General but with Trump in particular. India will focus on its economy, security and will concentrate on Fortress India becoming a reality.

I expect with a high degree of confidence of green light being given to the priority development of Surya ICBM (12,000 km) and Agni-6 SLBM (8,000-10,000 km) giving us the capability to target mainland USA.

West Asia, SE Asia and Oceania

India is right now firmly in the 2nd place in Top dog of asia, nipping at the heels of the Chinese, although there is a gap in comprehensive national power, it is negated in terms of real battlefield experience of its military and kit that has seen real world use. All equations and Balances of power will have to be recalibrated.

If India wants to, it can strike anywhere from Persian gulf, Suez Canal area to Southern Indian Ocean and South China sea and no country has a dense enough Air Defence environment to prevent India from attacking to protect its interests with impunity. There are very few places on earth with an Air Defence environment as tight and heavily contested as the Indo-Pak border.

The most consequential takeaway is this, India most likely will be convinced that the only way to permanently take care of this cancer called Pakistan will be to absorb a nuclear strike. If there is work towards mass building of shelters and the requisite building norms becoming the norm in India, then it means India has made the call that the current power differential between India and Pakistan might be enough for complete destruction and denuclearization of Pak but India currently doesn’t have the power differential with the backers of Pakistan, US and China.

Till the time parity is achieved, we will keep hitting Pak as per the new doctrine. We will keep buying time 3-5 years at a time till the time we become powerful enough that we can bear simultaneous pressure from US and China, and then take care of Pakistan once and for all.

Trump might be under the delusion that he just saved the world from being blown up, he just postponed it. He burnt his bridges with India and Modi, turned what could be Pakistan’s nuclear bluff into what would be in the future a near certain nuclear exchange event with catastrophic consequences for the world. Its inevitable and but wholly necessary.
 
Pakistan has a long history of deceit and manipulation, often described as a nation that habitually distorts the truth. The Pakistan Army maintains control over the country, largely due to an uneducated populace that is easily swayed by propaganda, rarely demanding evidence and readily accepting fabricated narratives, such as those derived from video game-like footage. Additionally, China has significantly influenced Pakistan’s information warfare, orchestrating narratives to serve its own interests. By leveraging its financial power, China has attempted to sway Western media to bolster its multi-billion-dollar weapons industry. However, these efforts have largely failed, particularly evident in the poor performance of Chinese weaponry during Operation Sindoor, which exposed the vulnerabilities of China’s defense industry and marked the beginning of its decline.

Pakistan’s claims of victory are consistently undermined by historical realities. In 1971, the country declared victory just two days before its surrender. During the Kargil conflict, Pakistan disowned its own soldiers while proclaiming success. Similar falsehoods were spread about the 1948 and 1965 wars, both of which were disastrous for Pakistan, as well as the 26/11 Mumbai attacks, where Pakistan denied involvement despite clear evidence. These repeated lies reflect a pattern of denial and fabrication. However, the truth inevitably surfaces, exposing Pakistan’s claims as baseless. India need not be preoccupied with Pakistan’s assertions, as the nation sustains itself on falsehoods that ultimately lead to its downfall. While Pakistan may excel in manipulating social media with fabricated imagery, its political and military leadership is acutely aware of the severe setbacks they face in reality. Behind closed doors, the Pakistani military, led by figures like General Munir, has experienced the overwhelming might of the Indian Air Force, rendering them subservient to India’s strategic dominance.

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Why are they simply not allowing one service to finish the full detailed presentation instead of shifting between IAF and IA like one minute to next .. They are still not talking about air battles on 7th night and 8th night .

35-40 PA soldiers killed in IA arty fires on 7th and 8th as per IA DGMO ..

they even tried to attack Thoise IAF station using UAS .
 
What I can summate from this is this.

1) We are not ready for a 2 front war,not economically stronger to withstand the pressure of powers be.

2)We must accelerate the domestic production be it howitzers or drones or LCA or even sukhois ( super sukhoi upgrade ).A nation that can replenish losses fast will win the war.

3) Got to be very serious on indigenous efforts in jet engines ,I guess kaveri cold section will be good enough for uav but for anything manned we need more efforts.No nation is going to help in hot section despite stupid claims of media.GTRE will prove to be insufficient and we need a dedicated special program with different salary structure on par with global giants to achieve it .How we do it ....I don't know.

4) The big elephant in room...5 th generation ,atleast as a stop gap.2 squadrons of su-57 asap.Even with al-41 engines will do but we need them in next 3 years.AMCA will take atleast 10 years.

5)Upgradation of mig-29k.I was listening to everyone in last 3 days to use the carrier.Our mig-29k has very old radar and ew .An old zhuk slotted aray radar.Asap we need either uttam aesa / indigenous equivalent or just get the zhuk ae( not even in Russian production so may be tough to get).
 
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