AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Hawkeye]

Is there any room for a single engine light stealth fighter in the Imported Airforce ? Let's call it Tejas Mark IV ? View attachment 29541

May be if you call if Tafael or F-69.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

View: https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status/1627874235300610049

Current target rollout for AMCA prototype 1 is end 2026, I believe. I see a report in idrw today that which companies will build which aerostructures for the prototypes has not yet been settled, Is it realistic to think that a prototype will be completed in the next 21 months? I don't know but I am doubtful. That is why I pose the question.

Many many such subsystem & lrus have been already developed or are under testing/development cycle.
Since 2010s they weren't sitting idle waiting for funds to be released instead the defence research and development organisation DRDO was working on it. This sub-systems weren't developed under AMCA funding but rather under annual funding of drdo.

 

[Asmodeus]

View: https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status/1627874235300610049

Many many such subsystem & lrus have been already developed or are under testing/development cycle.
Since 2010s they weren't sitting idle waiting for funds to be released instead the defence research and development organisation DRDO was working on it. This sub-systems weren't developed under AMCA funding but rather under annual funding of drdo.

I was hoping we would go for electric actuators for AMCA.. Many benifits over servo actuators including weight reductions and less need to mentain and higher accuracy and safety. we are not ambitious enough!

 

[NerVik]

I was hoping we would go for electric actuators for AMCA.. Many benifits over servo actuators including weight reductions and less need to mentain and higher accuracy and safety. we are not ambitious enough!

Thats the common theme in Indian MIC. Most, if not all, projects are more about keeping up with the current technologies rather than thinking ahead and coming up with next generation ideas.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

I was hoping we would go for electric actuators for AMCA.. Many benifits over servo actuators including weight reductions and less need to mentain and higher accuracy and safety. we are not ambitious enough!

RCI is developing electric actuators of wide spectrum. this actuators have been developed years ago.
They're developing newer ones.
Electrical actuators should have been the way to go for AMCA as they don't need those hydraulic oil circuits taking up space in airframe,pumps, oil and many more components adding upto maintainance.
While also freeing up more space for other equipments.
AMCA mk2 should have electric actuators. Given the equipment mk2 is supposed to house like much touted DEWs it should go for electric ones.

Here is the list the electric actuators under development by RCI, hydrabad. Given mk1 timeline its very likely they will house electric actuators

 

[randombully]

I was hoping we would go for electric actuators for AMCA.. Many benifits over servo actuators including weight reductions and less need to mentain and higher accuracy and safety. we are not ambitious enough!

these are not going in amca.
Newer actuators are being developed for it,announced at aero india 2025.

Godrej & Boyce to Develop Flight Control Actuators for AMCA Under New MoU with ADA | The Aviationspace

Godrej & Boyce’s aerospace division has signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) for the development of flight control actuators for the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme.

aviationspaceindia.com

 

[Spitfire IX]

Interesting to see the criteria for private companies to qualify for involvement in AMCA production.

Tejas Mk2 & AMCA : 8 Private Contenders - alphadefense.in

Exclusive insights into ADA's evaluation of Indian fighter jet makers. Tata, L&T, and others compete to manufacture AMCA.

alphadefense.in

 

[DancingPeacock]

Interesting to see the criteria for private companies to qualify for involvement in AMCA production.

Tejas Mk2 & AMCA : 8 Private Contenders - alphadefense.in

Exclusive insights into ADA's evaluation of Indian fighter jet makers. Tata, L&T, and others compete to manufacture AMCA.

alphadefense.in

Mostly common components and LRUs hence economies of scale.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Mostly common components and LRUs hence economies of scale.

? Are you saying that the private companies will not be interested in producing aerostrucures? Do they not make a good profit on doing that for Mk1A? Perhaps not, if their production plans were binned by the engine delay.

Team Alpha Defense accessed the Vendor Evaluation Report for manufacturing multiple structural assemblies, including:

• Front fuselage
• Centre fuselage
• Rear fuselage
• Wings
• Vertical tails
• Canards
• Horizontal tails

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

? Are you saying that the private companies will not be interested in producing aerostrucures? Do they not make a good profit on doing that for Mk1A? Perhaps not, if their production plans were binned by the engine delay.

GoI asked for Investment from Private Sector earlier and why would Private Sector invest without commitment for orders? Hence they removed SPV( which asked for financial commitment from firms) and settled for regular method.

 

[Spitfire IX]

GoI asked for Investment from Private Sector earlier and why would Private Sector invest without commitment for orders? Hence they removed SPV( which asked for financial commitment from firms) and settled for regular method.

Got you, I think. So the proposition is for the private sector to supply the components for AMCA and for another company to undertake assembly? That sounds like HAL retaining its monopoly to me.

I would be surprised if HAL reached the performance thresholds apparently required from potential private company AMCA component suppliers. To me it would not make sense for HAL to 'run the show' if the other players in the consortium met competence levels that HAL did not. I don't see why a private company would want to invest in an 'AMCA production company' unless HAL held 49.9% of the equity at most.

I stick to the idea of a fresh start: a new production company. GOI would need to instruct HAL (which it owns) to provide consultancy help to the new company until assembly was up and running. That company could bid against HAL for assembly contracts for later fighter projects. A bit like Boeing v LM and GE v P&W in the US - competition gives better results.


I notice today that Indian Defence Updates explores the idea of joining GCAP and using the engine in AMCA Mk2.

 

[midnight]

Got you, I think. So the proposition is for the private sector to supply the components for AMCA and for another company to undertake assembly? That sounds like HAL retaining its monopoly to me.

I would be surprised if HAL reached the performance thresholds apparently required from potential private company AMCA component suppliers. To me it would not make sense for HAL to 'run the show' if the other players in the consortium met competence levels that HAL did not. I don't see why a private company would want to invest in an 'AMCA production company' unless HAL held 49.9% of the equity at most.

I stick to the idea of a fresh start: a new production company. GOI would need to instruct HAL (which it owns) to provide consultancy help to the new company until assembly was up and running. That company could bid against HAL for assembly contracts for later fighter projects. A bit like Boeing v LM and GE v P&W in the US - competition gives better results.


I notice today that Indian Defence Updates explores the idea of joining GCAP and using the engine in AMCA Mk2.

You are right, what if no body is upto mark? what should we and the goi do?

 

[dumdumdum]

May be if you call if Tafael or F-69.

"69" might do the trick

 

[Bleh]

Is there any room for a single engine light stealth fighter in the Imported Airforce ? Let's call it Tejas Mark IV ? View attachment 29541

Where they photo from?

With twin-engines this should be a ideal jet as TEDBF. As opposed to...

 

[Rai89]

If IAF is going to fly a 5G fighter in the 2030's, I think it needs to order something foreign.

The only 5G fighter that may currently be available is the F35 and even then there is no guarantee the US would export to India. The SU-57 is available but it probably isn't a true 5G fighter given the reported levels of stealth and the Russian supply chain is unreliable anyway with the current war.

Maybe India can do a deal where it commits to buying 10s of billions in F35 in return for trade concessions with the US. Switching defence imports to the US is one way to reduce the trade surplus while not increasing overall imports.

 

[pipebomb]

What happened to F414 deal ? HAL acted so confident about signing the deal with GE by March during Aero India. Mk2 & AMCA depends on this deal. GOI probably couldn't move ahead with 110kn engine deal without signing the GE deal first

 

[Spitfire IX]

What happened to F414 deal ? HAL acted so confident about signing the deal with GE by March during Aero India. Mk2 & AMCA depends on this deal. GOI probably couldn't move ahead with 110kn engine deal without signing the GE deal first

From what I read GE would transfer the least technology out of GE, SAFRAN, RR. After many years of negotiating with all 3 OEM's, I imagine that India finds the cost offered by all of them to be too high and/or the TOT offered too low to proceed. However, if India now wants to buy a lot of aircraft with SAFRAN engines, perhaps SAFRAN would give a little more in 110kN JV engine negotiations.

I would say, though, that India is now in a weaker permission to negotiate than 10 years ago when IAF was not so desperate for fighter aircraft and Rafale badly needed customers. I guess that India now has to accept whatever Dassault offers and whatever an engine OEM offers if it wants an effective fighter force in the 2030's (Mk1A + Tejas Mk2 + Rafale + Su-30) and into the 2040's (with the addition of AMCA, AMCA Mk2).

And yes, what has happened to the F414 deal?

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

From what I read GE would transfer the least technology out of GE, SAFRAN, RR. After many years of negotiating with all 3 OEM's, I imagine that India finds the cost offered by all of them to be too high and/or the TOT offered too low to proceed. However, if India now wants to buy a lot of aircraft with SAFRAN engines, perhaps SAFRAN would give a little more in 110kN JV engine negotiations.

I would say, though, that India is now in a weaker permission to negotiate than 10 years ago when IAF was not so desperate for fighter aircraft and Rafale badly needed customers. I guess that India now has to accept whatever Dassault offers and whatever an engine OEM offers if it wants an effective fighter force in the 2030's (Mk1A + Tejas Mk2 + Rafale + Su-30) and into the 2040's (with the addition of AMCA, AMCA Mk2).

And yes, what has happened to the F414 deal?

Please specify your expected diff. b/w AMCA MK1 & 2.

 

[abingdonboy]

From what I read GE would transfer the least technology out of GE, SAFRAN, RR. After many years of negotiating with all 3 OEM's, I imagine that India finds the cost offered by all of them to be too high and/or the TOT offered too low to proceed. However, if India now wants to buy a lot of aircraft with SAFRAN engines, perhaps SAFRAN would give a little more in 110kN JV engine negotiations.

I would say, though, that India is now in a weaker permission to negotiate than 10 years ago when IAF was not so desperate for fighter aircraft and Rafale badly needed customers. I guess that India now has to accept whatever Dassault offers and whatever an engine OEM offers if it wants an effective fighter force in the 2030's (Mk1A + Tejas Mk2 + Rafale + Su-30) and into the 2040's (with the addition of AMCA, AMCA Mk2).

And yes, what has happened to the F414 deal?

Weaker/stronger is all relative as these things cross commercial interests and into strategic relations

Since Modi came to power the shift has been clear and France and India have started to talk about the relationship in strategic terms

Rafale (IAF)
Rafale (IN)
Additional P-75

All point to this as they were done via GTG not the standard long winded open tender route. The only other country that has enjoyed such benefits with India in the past is Russia but largely (post S400) these deals have slowed between India and Russia which implies a strategic shift is taking place which the Indian side I guess hopes will see benefits both on the civil (nuclear) and defence side (engines and SSN tech)

I’ll throw in

SCA
AMCA FTB
NETRA MK.2
MMMA/LRMPA

All will be based on French (Airbus) platforms involving heavy OEM assistance

India seems to have made a choice and will expect reciprocal benefits, the 5th gen engine was always Safran’s to lose but GE/RR were kept in the fray as somewhat of a contingency but also to provide cover to avoid potential political fallout by only engaging 1 partner; similar to the MRCBF process. It never made sense the F18 was going to be picked but they couldn’t just sign the deal for the Rafale-M especially not after the uproar that was created after the IAF’s Rafale deal

@BON PLAN


+ as for the F414- it’ll be signed this year but apparently GE are demanding even more upfront $$$ and this is further cementing the fact the Americans cannot play the game with India

 

[pipebomb]

From what I read GE would transfer the least technology out of GE, SAFRAN, RR. After many years of negotiating with all 3 OEM's, I imagine that India finds the cost offered by all of them to be too high and/or the TOT offered too low to proceed. However, if India now wants to buy a lot of aircraft with SAFRAN engines, perhaps SAFRAN would give a little more in 110kN JV engine negotiations.

I would say, though, that India is now in a weaker permission to negotiate than 10 years ago when IAF was not so desperate for fighter aircraft and Rafale badly needed customers. I guess that India now has to accept whatever Dassault offers and whatever an engine OEM offers if it wants an effective fighter force in the 2030's (Mk1A + Tejas Mk2 + Rafale + Su-30) and into the 2040's (with the addition of AMCA, AMCA Mk2).

And yes, what has happened to the F414 deal?

GOI needs to clear f414 irrespective of what happens with AMCA engine. F414 is non negotiatiable