AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[ArjunMK1A]

I think we should seriously seek Lockheed or Boeing's help to fast track amca so that IAF could start inducting it at the very least by early 2030s. 2036 is just too late we would be without any proper air deterrent for just too long imo. Also we don't have any other import option SU57 is just no match for j20 and us won't sell us their f35, amca is the only logical option.

Naah. Lot of components were in various stage of development.

1. Radar - Available now.
2. MAWS - DRDO already have the basic MAWS which will be used in Tejas MK2, current working on Advance version.
3. RWR -Already available.
4. EOTS - Under Prototype and will undergo testing.

Now big road block is engine. That 130KN engine is required and we don't know who will be the JV Partner.

The one area the consultation required is poor IWB design. I am not happy with 4 hardpoint when F22 have 6+2, J20 have 6 (4 in IWB and 2 in SWB). We don't have SWB to put CCM Missile.

Our designer needs to go for some serious packaging.

 

[darkflame]

Naah. Lot of components were in various stage of development.

1. Radar - Available now.
2. MAWS - DRDO already have the basic MAWS which will be used in Tejas MK2, current working on Advance version.
3. RWR -Already available.
4. EOTS - Under Prototype and will undergo testing.

Now big road block is engine. That 130KN engine is required and we don't know who will be the JV Partner.

The one area the consultation required is poor IWB design. I am not happy with 4 hardpoint when F22 have 6+2, J20 have 6 (4 in IWB and 2 in SWB). We don't have SWB to put CCM Missile.

Our designer needs to go for some serious packaging.

Doesn't really matter what stuff we already have and what we don't . If amca mk2 arrives in 2040 it just won't be much useful 6th gen fighters have already taken their first flight they will have larger radars, bigger engines, dew weapons amca will just get bullied by these fighters.
And if you look at our current inventory it's just pure garbage severe lack of tip of the spear platform just 2 squadrons worth of fighters are equipped with an aesa radar.
Even Taiwan's airforce is better than us
They have like 140 f16s and all of them are aesa equipped. They also have over 60 f16s on order.
Iaf is just pure joke now idk why they are ranked 4th strongest just see in just few coming years they will be like 7th or 8th

 

[Spitfire IX]

I think we should seriously seek Lockheed or Boeing's help to fast track amca so that IAF could start inducting it at the very least by early 2030s. 2036 is just too late we would be without any proper air deterrent for just too long imo. Also we don't have any other import option SU57 is just no match for j20 and us won't sell us their f35, amca is the only logical option.

The AMCA programme has been going for 15 years. If it needed to be in service by 2030, running appraisals of progress and estimated start of production date would have shown several years ago that the EIS date was not going to be met. Neither Boeing or LM or anyone else can fastrack AMCA which has inadequate slowtrack project management.

Yes, input from foreign OEM's would be useful if ADA is not able to design an effective aircraft but I thought the design was frozen about 18 months ago. and accepted by CCS about a year ago.

I think that the proposed 'HAL is in charge' joint venture with a plethora of private companies participating is a terrible idea. I think that a single, dynamic company is needed to take on manufacturing AMCA.

Because GOI will not order before certification, my guess at timeline

FF 2028/2029
Certification 2032/2033
Aircraft ordered 2033/2034
Production start ???
First deliveries 2/3 years after production start

No company is going to start spending tens of millions of dollars on setting up an assembly operation before it has an order. How long does it take to set up an FAL? There is likely to be a big gap between an order being placed and production starting.

If IAF is going to fly a 5G fighter in the 2030's, I think it needs to order something foreign.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Naah. Lot of components were in various stage of development.

1. Radar - Available now.
2. MAWS - DRDO already have the basic MAWS which will be used in Tejas MK2, current working on Advance version.
3. RWR -Already available.
4. EOTS - Under Prototype and will undergo testing.

Now big road block is engine. That 130KN engine is required and we don't know who will be the JV Partner.

The one area the consultation required is poor IWB design. I am not happy with 4 hardpoint when F22 have 6+2, J20 have 6 (4 in IWB and 2 in SWB). We don't have SWB to put CCM Missile.

Our designer needs to go for some serious packaging.

You're forgetting that AMCA'sofficial dimensions of 4.2m X 2.2m can easily have 6 staggered short-fin AAMs.
If they wan't they can carve out 2 SWBs for 1 CCM each also.
IDK why journalists don't ask these questions while visiting DoD facilities. They just go for time pass

 

[randombully]

The AMCA programme has been going for 15 years

AMCA program started in mid-late 2018, that was when we pulled out of su57 program with Russia and gov. Approved amca program And funding started.
Before 2018, amca was a concept that drdo was showing to mod in hope of getting the project started.
The detail design of amca started after 2018, the configuration, weight, sensor suite, engine etc All discussions started after 2018.

Before 2018, drdo only did some "preliminary" work inhouse.

 

[Asmodeus]

Y'all got baited so easily... Everyone knows LM helping in AMCA, thats not a possibility.
Now we are stuck with justifying the timelines and progress and other devlopements..
while some of us may disregard every other devlopement and progress because its on paper and cannot be proven, therefore we should seek help from others.
Ergo, we are incompetant and should not become overconfident when discussing their(Murican) jets.

Muricans are masters of psyops.... Idk I could be wrong though!!

 

[Spitfire IX]

AMCA program started in mid-late 2018, that was when we pulled out of su57 program with Russia and gov. Approved amca program And funding started.
Before 2018, amca was a concept that drdo was showing to mod in hope of getting the project started.
The detail design of amca started after 2018, the configuration, weight, sensor suite, engine etc All discussions started after 2018.

Before 2018, drdo only did some "preliminary" work inhouse.

In April 2010, the Indian Air Force issued an Air Staff Qualitative Requirement (ASQR) for the AMCA. A feasibility study was launched in October 2010 after a fund allocation of ₹90 crore (equivalent to ₹202 crore or US$24 million in 2023) by the Defence Ministry. In November, the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) sought an additional funding of ₹9,000 crore (equivalent to ₹200 billion or US$2.4 billion in 2023) for the development of two technology demonstrators and seven prototypes. By the time, the first flight was expected in 2017.

HAL AMCA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Make of it what you will. I'll stick to the 'conventional wisdom' that AMCA, KF-21 and KAAN programmes all started in 2010.

 

[randombully]

HAL AMCA - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Make of it what you will. I'll stick to the 'conventional wisdom' that AMCA, KF-21 and KAAN programmes all started in 2010.

You consider a feasibility study and measily 24 million as start of the program?

Again, gov. And iaf was betting on su57 till 2018.
The "serious" development started after gov. Pulled out of su57 program.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Current target rollout for AMCA prototype 1 is end 2026, I believe. I see a report in idrw today that which companies will build which aerostructures for the prototypes has not yet been settled, Is it realistic to think that a prototype will be completed in the next 21 months? I don't know but I am doubtful. That is why I pose the question.

 

[Spacemarine]

Current target rollout for AMCA prototype 1 is end 2026, I believe. I see a report in idrw today that which companies will build which aerostructures for the prototypes has not yet been settled, Is it realistic to think that a prototype will be completed in the next 21 months? I don't know but I am doubtful. That is why I pose the question.

Not a chance

 

[randombully]

Current target rollout for AMCA prototype 1 is end 2026, I believe. I see a report in idrw today that which companies will build which aerostructures for the prototypes has not yet been settled, Is it realistic to think that a prototype will be completed in the next 21 months? I don't know but I am doubtful. That is why I pose the question.

Previously the bulkheads were planned to be welded together,( eg. F22)
Now bulkheads are are planned to be forged out of single piece(eg. F35), for that we need to create a 50k ton press, the biggest presses in the country we have are about 20k ton, so the press is being is created right now.

Single piece bulkheads are more lighter and much more stronger and no weak points(eg. welding joints which needs to be further reinforced hence more weight and less space ).

 

[Kattar]

Doesn't really matter what stuff we already have and what we don't . If amca mk2 arrives in 2040 it just won't be much useful 6th gen fighters have already taken their first flight they will have larger radars, bigger engines, dew weapons amca will just get bullied by these fighters.
And if you look at our current inventory it's just pure garbage severe lack of tip of the spear platform just 2 squadrons worth of fighters are equipped with an aesa radar.
Even Taiwan's airforce is better than us
They have like 140 f16s and all of them are aesa equipped. They also have over 60 f16s on order.
Iaf is just pure joke now idk why they are ranked 4th strongest just see in just few coming years they will be like 7th or 8th

We are in a era where every single fighter jet is a expensive piece of equipment and also so hyped up that peer powers have been shying away from actually fielding them against a worthy opponent.

Russia-Ukr war was a let down for Fighter Jet enthusiasts with both countries largely staying away from each other's airspace and more aircraft attrition happening on ground than Dog Fights or BVRs

When Turkey shot down Russia's SU-24 back in 2015, Putin opted for economic sanctions instead of retaliating in Air.

US has been on verge of bombing Iran for last 10 years despite having B1s, B2s, F-22s and F-35s in large numbers and Iran being under sanctions for eternity now. It may require a madman like Trump to risk a air campaign on even a beaten down country like Iran

A sixth gen fighter will more likely be hit by a missile barrage when it is parked even before Air combat in our case

For a defensive posture, large number of cheap road mobile long range missiles and UAVs will be lot more effective than a small number of 5th or 6th gen aircraft

We should wait for our economic output to catch up before making huge investments in expensive but fragile weapon systems

We don't even have enough hardened shelters to protect current fleet on ground yet!

 

[RocketMan]

Is there any room for a single engine light stealth fighter in the Imported Airforce ? Let's call it Tejas Mark IV ?

 

[BON PLAN]

I think Rolls Royce is the best partner for a JV to make a freshly designed 120KN+ engine. I don't think there is any other manufacturer giving a better deal in terms of IP rights, the ToT and full support.

one time it is GE the front runner, then Safran, then RR,.....
What a time loss. YearsSSS that it is on the agenda.

 

[DumbPilot]

What exactly can they do to induct AMCA in half time from now?
USA would love to sell its "poodle" version of F-35. There may not be a "kill switch" but many statistics could be sent to USA for proactive maintenance, which could include new RCS & IRS detected. If they're concerned that S-400 radar will get F-35's signature thenvice-versa is also a concern.

what do you think they do at bilateral/multilateral aerial exercises?

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

what do you think they do at bilateral/multilateral aerial exercises?

> Show-off their jet & skills,
> try to prove they're better than others,
> persuade others to buy their jets

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Is there any room for a single engine light stealth fighter in the Imported Airforce ? Let's call it Tejas Mark IV ? View attachment 29541

Sure, it can be 1 engine version of AMCA, like F-35. The engine has to be like upgraded F135, double powerful than F414, that's all.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

one time it is GE the front runner, then Safran, then RR,.....
What a time loss. YearsSSS that it is on the agenda.

That is a norm here bruh

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

We are in a era where every single fighter jet is a expensive piece of equipment and also so hyped up that peer powers have been shying away from actually fielding them against a worthy opponent.

Russia-Ukr war was a let down for Fighter Jet enthusiasts with both countries largely staying away from each other's airspace and more aircraft attrition happening on ground than Dog Fights or BVRs

When Turkey shot down Russia's SU-24 back in 2015, Putin opted for economic sanctions instead of retaliating in Air.

US has been on verge of bombing Iran for last 10 years despite having B1s, B2s, F-22s and F-35s in large numbers and Iran being under sanctions for eternity now. It may require a madman like Trump to risk a air campaign on even a beaten down country like Iran

A sixth gen fighter will more likely be hit by a missile barrage when it is parked even before Air combat in our case

For a defensive posture, large number of cheap road mobile long range missiles and UAVs will be lot more effective than a small number of 5th or 6th gen aircraft

We should wait for our economic output to catch up before making huge investments in expensive but fragile weapon systems

We don't even have enough hardened shelters to protect current fleet on ground yet!

In era of every gen - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, something newer has been expensive.

In all current conflicts the drones are RC (Remote Controlled), not autonomous. 100 drones means 100 operators.

Russia doesn't have anything stealthy up to level of F-22, F-35, B-2. And Ukraine hardly has anything of its own. But Russia & Turkey will catch up with time on stealth aspects.

We're yet to see a proper war b/w USA Vs Iran. As per latest news the B-2 bombers are gathering in Diego Garcia island for possible strike on Houthi assets & beyond & Iran although still warning USA of retaliation, is pulling out of Yemen, may be bcoz of fear of stealth jets. Sometimes just the mobilization of supreme assets is scary enough for lagging adversaries.

Since beginning, most jets are stationed NOT in FOB (forward Operating Bases) but outside range of rocket & shell artillery. But R&D has never stopped. To counter such threat & IRBMs, various kinds of Interceptor Missiles & DEWs are being developed.
6gen is aimed to have longer range & also about MUMT, a transition towards UCAV-AF.

Economic O/p to catch up needs absorbtion of population into industry, creating job opportunities. Every future tech creates such opportunities. When making complex platform like fighter jet, the components are not made 1 by 1 but in parallel by their makers. The Govt./MoD is responsible to coordinate b/w them.

 

[RocketMan]

Would we ever see IAF @ full strength during our lifetimes ?