LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[Patriots]

View: https://x.com/Platypuss_10/status/1909257363539832857
Lca Tejas armed with 2r73

 

[Spitfire IX]

In today's Indian Defence Updates it says that India has offered Mk1A to Brazil as an F5 replacement while Pakistan is offering JF-17. Both would be a more appropriate replacement than Gripen E, wouldn't they?

I think that a mutually beneficial deal could be done between India and Brazil by negotiating a Mk1A order for C-390 order deal. I do not think that time is of the essence - Brazil is not under any great threat from its neighbours, warranting a quick replacement of its F-5 aircraft. India does not need an MTA aircraft urgently, does it?

Ideally India would bring forward its MTA renewal programme so that (if selected) C-390 could be assembled in India. C-390 looks to be a very appealing MTA. It could, realistically, take much of the world market away from LM's C-130.

The other possibility would be for India to scrap the MTA replacement competition and select C-390 for strategic commercial reasons (export some Mk1A to Brazil and possibly export a lot of C-390 worldwide in the future).

 

[Gandaberunda]

In today's Indian Defence Updates it says that India has offered Mk1A to Brazil as an F5 replacement while Pakistan is offering JF-17. Both would be a more appropriate replacement than Gripen E, wouldn't they?

I think that a mutually beneficial deal could be done between India and Brazil by negotiating a Mk1A order for C-390 order deal. I do not think that time is of the essence - Brazil is not under any great threat from its neighbours, warranting a quick replacement of its F-5 aircraft. India does not need an MTA aircraft urgently, does it?

Ideally India would bring forward its MTA renewal programme so that (if selected) C-390 could be assembled in India. C-390 looks to be a very appealing MTA. It could, realistically, take much of the world market away from LM's C-130.

The other possibility would be for India to scrap the MTA replacement competition and select C-390 for strategic commercial reasons (export some Mk1A to Brazil and possibly export a lot of C-390 worldwide in the future).

C390 is best suited platform for us now and future. If we want to tie that to MK1A then we have to go ahead and do it to escape trump bullying to buy defence weapons from his MIC. 80 MTA by next decade will give us teeth in mobilising troops also replacing aging aircraft’s.

 

[BON PLAN]

In today's Indian Defence Updates it says that India has offered Mk1A to Brazil as an F5 replacement while Pakistan is offering JF-17. Both would be a more appropriate replacement than Gripen E, wouldn't they?

I think that a mutually beneficial deal could be done between India and Brazil by negotiating a Mk1A order for C-390 order deal. I do not think that time is of the essence - Brazil is not under any great threat from its neighbours, warranting a quick replacement of its F-5 aircraft. India does not need an MTA aircraft urgently, does it?

Ideally India would bring forward its MTA renewal programme so that (if selected) C-390 could be assembled in India. C-390 looks to be a very appealing MTA. It could, realistically, take much of the world market away from LM's C-130.

The other possibility would be for India to scrap the MTA replacement competition and select C-390 for strategic commercial reasons (export some Mk1A to Brazil and possibly export a lot of C-390 worldwide in the future).

No. Gripen E > Tejas 1 or JF-17.
With close coupled canards Gripen is without a doubt more agile.
With F414 engine, the sole close competitor will be Tejas 2. Some years to wait to see a mature Tejas 2 on the market.
Weapon system is more secure and mature (secure because JF-17 systems are chinese, so without any real field test).

And now that Brazil has ordered 36 Gripen, it would be a suicide and a logistic nightmare to opt for another bird in the "same" league (but slightly ower one).
Better built some more AMX in a "NG" form.

 

[Kedar]

C390 is best suited platform for us now and future. If we want to tie that to MK1A then we have to go ahead and do it to escape trump bullying to buy defence weapons from his MIC. 80 MTA by next decade will give us teeth in mobilising troops also replacing aging aircraft’s.

Its a good plane but Brazil is more of an integrator and is prone to all sorts of arm twisting....unless we get co-production in India, its better to go with US/Russia/Airbus. With all sorts of trade disruptions, it may not be best to rush into this deal.

 

[BON PLAN]

C390 is best suited platform for us now and future. If we want to tie that to MK1A then we have to go ahead and do it to escape trump bullying to buy defence weapons from his MIC. 80 MTA by next decade will give us teeth in mobilising troops also replacing aging aircraft’s.

C390 is too small for such a big country as India.
For this special market, go in russia.

 

[Gandaberunda]

C390 is too small for such a big country as India.
For this special market, go in russia.

MTA - medium transport aircraft
C390 millennium is the best with range weight and with jet engine when compared to its contemporary rivals A400M, LM C130.

 

[Gandaberunda]

It’s a good plane but Brazil is more of an integrator and is prone to all sorts of arm twisting....unless we get co-production in India, its better to go with US/Russia/Airbus. With all sorts of trade disruptions, it may not be best to rush into this deal.

Embraer has signed MoU with Mahindra for C300 domestic production in India. Recently they showed landing and taking off from short unpaved runway. Embraer is pushing to get the deal done unless Babus bend over to US pressure C390 is front runner.

 

[Spitfire IX]

No. Gripen E > Tejas 1 or JF-17.
With close coupled canards Gripen is without a doubt more agile.
With F414 engine, the sole close competitor will be Tejas 2. Some years to wait to see a mature Tejas 2 on the market.
Weapon system is more secure and mature (secure because JF-17 systems are chinese, so without any real field test).

And now that Brazil has ordered 36 Gripen, it would be a suicide and a logistic nightmare to opt for another bird in the "same" league (but slightly ower one).
Better built some more AMX in a "NG" form.

I did say I thought that Mk1A is a more appropriate replacement for F5 than Gripen E.

IIRC F5 has a low CPFH. Gripen E (I imagine) a much higher CPFH and Mk1A (I imagine) falls between the other 2.

FAB, I believe, saw financial problems in having an all Gripen E fighter fleet and halted deliveries to consider an alternative (used F-16).

Sweden has just committed to 4 C-390. I expect that Brazil will order more Gripen E as part of the deal. Such deals generate benefits for both parties. Offering Mk1A to Brazil could result in India getting better C-390 terms from Brazil and so help secure an order for a substantial number from India.

Why invest in a new AMX instead of Mk1A? With F-16 or Mk1A or AMX NG Brazil would still end up supporting 2 types.

PS Brazil tagged 4 more onto its Gripen E order a couple of years ago.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Regarding C-390 and broader Embraer I assume they fully are rich in Know-How and Know-Why of large planes with all inhouse Testing facilities.

Regarding production can anyone tell me what's the situation?
1. Composites
2. Alloys
3. Avionics
4. Actuators
5. Engine(I know this is imported)

 

[Kedar]

Embraer has signed MoU with Mahindra for C300 domestic production in India. Recently they showed landing and taking off from short unpaved runway. Embraer is pushing to get the deal done unless Babus bend over to US pressure C390 is front runner.

We also signed contracts with with GE on engines, none of that means anything during these times, MOU carry not much weight. It is a good plane overall and we should license produce but Embraer in general would be impacted with tariffs and lot of their subsystems are not Brazil made. India case is a bit different, everyone wants to put us in their lists of some sort to twist us not to mention using the traitors at home. c390 is probably the best overall in that segment right now though...I would go with anyone that gets us to license produce

 

[Spitfire IX]

MTA - medium transport aircraft
C390 millennium is the best with range weight and with jet engine when compared to its contemporary rivals A400M, LM C130.

I know this thread is about Tejas but for India an offer to supply Brazil involves India's need for an MTA and the possibility of that being supplied by Brazil. Did I not read some months ago that the MTA supplied was required to be able to lift a 25 tonne tank? If that is a requirement, C-130 does not meet it.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why invest in a new AMX instead of Mk1A? With F-16 or Mk1A or AMX NG Brazil would still end up supporting 2 types.

because AMX, even for low Qty, will be made in Brazil. Not the case of any other bird.

 

[BON PLAN]

MTA - medium transport aircraft
C390 millennium is the best with range weight and with jet engine when compared to its contemporary rivals A400M, LM C130.

I forgot the Medium word.
So you 're right.

 

[Spitfire IX]

because AMX, even for low Qty, will be made in Brazil. Not the case of any other bird.

? Gripen E is being made in Brazil. First one scheduled to roll out this year. The Brazilian plant might deliver to Colombia sooner rather than later. Then there is Brazil which may order more Gripen E as part of a C-390 deal with Sweden. Also Peru may select Gripen E as its next fighter.

 

[Spitfire IX]

I see today in idrw.org that India plans to take steps to improve its capacity to win military export orders.

India offers cheap loans for arms, targeting Russia’s traditional customers – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Once confidence in production of Mk1A is established, it would make sense to identify and target the niche market for Mk1A. I guess the prime market will be countries with small air forces needing to replace their small force of ageing fighters with low cost, modern fighters. There should be a few such countries in Africa and South America.

I see that India achieved some $2-$2.5 billion in military exports in the last financial year. I imagine that sum accrued from dozens of different export contracts. A single, small export order for a dozen Mk1A could be expected to realise more than half that value (frames, spares, support, weapons).

India seems to find it extremely difficult to organise the development and production of fighter aircraft. Having managed to put 1 into production, it would be foolish not to sell it to other countries needing such an aircraft.

 

[Gandaberunda]

I see today in idrw.org that India plans to take steps to improve its capacity to win military export orders.

India offers cheap loans for arms, targeting Russia’s traditional customers – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Once confidence in production of Mk1A is established, it would make sense to identify and target the niche market for Mk1A. I guess the prime market will be countries with small air forces needing to replace their small force of ageing fighters with low cost, modern fighters. There should be a few such countries in Africa and South America.

I see that India achieved some $2-$2.5 billion in military exports in the last financial year. I imagine that sum accrued from dozens of different export contracts. A single, small export order for a dozen Mk1A could be expected to realise more than half that value (frames, spares, support, weapons).

India seems to find it extremely difficult to organise the development and production of fighter aircraft. Having managed to put 1 into production, it would be foolish not to sell it to other countries needing such an aircraft.

We have to first induct MK1A in numbers then send it to military exercises and Air shows giving visibility to the Tejas. Without all these pitching the aircraft which hasn’t seen IAF FoB hangers is too early and foolishness.

 

[Spitfire IX]

We have to first induct MK1A in numbers then send it to military exercises and Air shows giving visibility to the Tejas. Without all these pitching the aircraft which hasn’t seen IAF FoB hangers is too early and foolishness.

I'm sure there is truth in what you say.

I think it was mostly a waste of time and money offering Tejas to any country looking to replace its existing light/light-medium fighters. Mind you, it got close to being selected in Malaysia according to what I read. Might it have actually succeeded if it had already been in IAF service?

Export-wise, GOI wants India's MIC to increase the value of exports. A fighter is an expensive piece of kit. Selling fighters is a good way to achieve higher arms exports value if there is a market for the type of fighter being made for your own air force.

 

[karn]

I'm sure there is truth in what you say.

I think it was mostly a waste of time and money offering Tejas to any country looking to replace its existing light/light-medium fighters. Mind you, it got close to being selected in Malaysia according to what I read. Might it have actually succeeded if it had already been in IAF service?

Export-wise, GOI wants India's MIC to increase the value of exports. A fighter is an expensive piece of kit. Selling fighters is a good way to achieve higher arms exports value if there is a market for the type of fighter being made for your own air force.

Don't sweat too much about LCA exports .. This policy covers all defence related things. Far lower hanging fruit is ammo and after that Artillery (rocket and tube) air defence,radars , cruise missiles and some small arms.

 

[Azaad]

South Korea to export up to 100 FA-50 Fighting Eagle light attack aircraft to Egypt in largest deal to date

South Korea could export up to 100 FA-50 Fighting Eagle light attack aircraft to Egypt in largest deal to date

armyrecognition.com

Looks like LCA Mk-1 is on the verge of losing another order to RoK's F-50.