Indian Small Arms and Weapons

[Yt2211]

Is it just me or negev seems to lack rail space

Yeah you can't really use any long sight, it will be impossible to reload unless they use a realy high riser like they use for ofb mag

 

[Baseplate]

On indian army lmg trial there was picture of ofb fn mag with acog which was against negev ng 7 in lmg trial
No doubt negev ng 7 will come out l1 it is better but there was sss defence lmg design which was showed briefly in a promo video but then it pulled out of competition
Most likely negev will be final winner as army already have them and they are satisfied with it ultimately negev is best choice overall
View attachment 33143
Is it just me or negev seems to lack rail space

they should really stick to one LMG , having multiple rifles is bad enough

 

[Sathish]

On indian army lmg trial there was picture of ofb fn mag with acog which was against negev ng 7 in lmg trial
No doubt negev ng 7 will come out l1 it is better but there was sss defence lmg design which was showed briefly in a promo video but then it pulled out of competition
Most likely negev will be final winner as army already have them and they are satisfied with it ultimately negev is best choice overall
View attachment 33143
Is it just me or negev seems to lack rail space. Estonian Negev

 

[username unkown]

Yeah you can't really use any long sight, it will be impossible to reload unless thety use a realy high riser like they use for ofb mag

In fn evolys

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/PlnH7_uYnc0?si=Fo51RUxQ9TA0N-Us
Or sigs newxm250 mg or
New Reapr mmg

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/h7jkw3C63eo?si=Uk_XfT40CxNLPSXK
And other next generation machine gun have full rail space while having feeding mechanism to not disturb optic or accommodate bigger optics
I think fn evolys feeding system is best

 

[johny_baba]

Is it just me or negev seems to lack rail space

it's not just you, it's truth, because on Negev they chose to put that iron sights of removable type here straight atop the limited top rail, as that front cover is opened for feeding the ammo and not that ideal for further rails for optics

but once you remove it, you do get some acceptable length top rail like this, also has a fixed aperture flip-up backup iron sight integrated to it kinda like tavors and X-95

so yeah you can't multiply optics but some regular ACOG like thing can go atop it just fine

 

[username unkown]

it's not just you, it's truth, because on Negev they chose to put that iron sights of removable type here straight atop the limited top rail, as that front cover is opened for feeding the ammo and not that ideal for further rails for optics

but once you remove it, you do get some acceptable length top rail like this, also has a fixed aperture flip-up backup iron sight integrated to it kinda like tavors and X-95
View attachment 33150
so yeah you can't multiply optics but some regular ACOG like thing can go atop it just fine

Overall negev lacks rail space in comparison to other mg counterpart but match them in performance
can they extend the rails with some upgrade or something to accommodate bigger or longer optics like lpvo

Edit
To use 7.62 nato round to full potential aan lpvo is must as negev have tiny railspace i think eotech vudu 3-9x lpvo will be best suitable for it without any upgrade
Eotech vudu 3-9x lpvo with good glass quality comes in acog mount and smaller in size

Only downside with this optic is its reticle is absolute garbage vudu series generally have shitty reticle

 

[vampyrbladez]

@Unknowncommando @johny_baba Whatever happened to this little guy TriCa. Did it see any success yet anywhere in India?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7IJhZhmjog

Didn't the NSG order 100 units?




https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...tory has five new,and development (R&D) stage.

AK 203(IN) vs Trichy Assault Rifle (FAB kit)


Vs

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Overall negev lacks rail space in comparison to other mg counterpart but match them in performance
can they extend the rails with some upgrade or something to accommodate bigger or longer optics like lpvo

The Negev was designed to operate in Israel. Average engagement ranges between 150-250 meters. A longer rail is simply not a concern over barrel cooling and quick swap. It's a squad support gun that lays down fire suppression and uses mags to keep up with the squad after the boxes are spent. It's meant to be used on the move.

 

[VictorDelta4]

Didn't the NSG order 100 units?

There hasn't been any sightings as of now though I guess.

 

[johny_baba]

The Negev was designed to operate in Israel. Average engagement ranges between 150-250 meters. A longer rail is simply not a concern over barrel cooling and quick swap. It's a squad support gun that lays down fire suppression and uses mags to keep up with the squad after the boxes are spent. It's meant to be used on the move.

dual feeding is only there on Negev 5.56x45mm one,
Negev NG-7 that we got as replacement of INSAS LMG only feeds from belts,
otherwise yes, Negev NG-7 is more leaning towards a lighter full powered SAW than a GPMG

Overall negev lacks rail space in comparison to other mg counterpart but match them in performance
can they extend the rails with some upgrade or something to accommodate bigger or longer optics like lpvo

Edit
To use 7.62 nato round to full potential aan lpvo is must as negev have tiny railspace i think eotech vudu 3-9x lpvo will be best suitable for it without any upgrade
Eotech vudu 3-9x lpvo with good glass quality comes in acog mount and smaller in size

Only downside with this optic is its reticle is absolute garbage vudu series generally have shitty reticle

View attachment 33155

well we can just induct some good numbers of DRDO 7.62mm Belt Fed LMGs instead of tinkering around with Negev NG-7 design which IPRs are not in our hands anyways

it has longer enough top rails to mount any LPVO, and at 9.5 Kg of weight it's in M60 range, and although it's seen as lighter machined receiver build of MAG 58 we can still attempt at modernising it like giving it a tactical buttstock and handguards near gas tube, a better bipod etc to make it more appealing as an LMG-ish thing

 

[Sathish]

On indian army lmg trial there was picture of ofb fn mag with acog which was against negev ng 7 in lmg trial
No doubt negev ng 7 will come out l1 it is better but there was sss defence lmg design which was showed briefly in a promo video but then it pulled out of competition
Most likely negev will be final winner as army already have them and they are satisfied with it ultimately negev is best choice overall
View attachment 33143
Is it just me or negev seems to lack rail space

Estonian Negev with extended rail

 

[vampyrbladez]

ASMI 9mm SMG in service with Indian Army

 

[Kapil]

On indian army lmg trial there was picture of ofb fn mag with acog which was against negev ng 7 in lmg trial
No doubt negev ng 7 will come out l1 it is better but there was sss defence lmg design which was showed briefly in a promo video but then it pulled out of competition
Most likely negev will be final winner as army already have them and they are satisfied with it ultimately negev is best choice overall
View attachment 33143
Is it just me or negev seems to lack rail space

1. I am not well versed with guns etc so might sound noobish here, but isn't FN Mag a Company level MMG? What is it doing in a trial for a Squad level LMG?

2. Isn't PKM better for that - except that it's a different round which the already confused IA squad ( with 3 different rounds already with it) will have to carry so that pretty much disqualifies it.

3. Assuming IA now wants to sunset 5.56x45mm INSAS as well as INSAS LMG, and move to 7.62x51mm what are the other 7.62x51mm options which are either Made in India or Assembled in India?

Asides -

4. What other LMGs does IA use? Do we have a zoo here as well?

5. Is there an LMG with each squad in IA or one or two per 3rd squad as per some western army policies?

6. What LMG will the AK103/203 guys use?

 

[username unkown]

The Negev was designed to operate in Israel. Average engagement ranges between 150-250 meters. A longer rail is simply not a concern over barrel cooling and quick swap. It's a squad support gun that lays down fire suppression and uses mags to keep up with the squad after the boxes are spent. It's meant to be used on the move.

Basically negev is designed for condition in israeli and not suitable for himalaya where you will be engaging at greater range
Lmg is often overlooked 7.62x 51 or 7.62x 54r rounds are bigger round not just for more stopping power but also great range with bigger optic you can suppress your enemy from longer range

well we can just induct some good numbers of DRDO 7.62mm Belt Fed LMGs instead of tinkering around with Negev NG-7 design which IPRs are not in our hands anyways
View attachment 33186
it has longer enough top rails to mount any LPVO, and at 9.5 Kg of weight it's in M60 range, and although it's seen as lighter machined receiver build of MAG 58 we can still attempt at modernising it like giving it a tactical buttstock and handguards near gas tube, a better bipod etc to make it more appealing as an LMG-ish thing

Indian army will reject it for its weight
Some indian lmg with Indian IPR would have been alot better

 

[username unkown]

1. I am not well versed with guns etc so might sound noobish here, but isn't FN Mag a Company level MMG? What is it doing in a trial for a Squad level LMG?

2. Isn't PKM better for that - except that it's a different round which the already confused IA squad ( with 3 different rounds already with it) will have to carry so that pretty much disqualifies it.

1
It is mag 58 compare fn mag 58 and drdo lmg and find the difference
This one is drdo one





2 pkm is different round by time with replacement of svd and pkm this round will be replaced i hope
Pkm and fn mag58 are bit old in comparison to negev and other newer machine gun

Assuming IA now wants to sunset 5.56x45mm INSAS as well as INSAS LMG, and move to 7.62x51mm what are the other 7.62x51mm options which are either Made in India or Assembled in India?

Asides -

4. What other LMGs does IA use? Do we have a zoo here as well?

5. Is there an LMG with each squad in IA or one or two per 3rd squad as per some western army policies?

6. What LMG will the AK103/203 guys use?

For 3
there are no major indian option just
Plr (adani) i.e. iwi and ARDE there was sss defence but it pulled out of competition there was little about reliance and bharat forge but nothing major
4
we have perfect zoo in small arms department
Bren , fn mag , insas lmg , pkm , negev ,kpvt and m2 browning
5
Not sure but maybe 2 mg in 12 guys
6
They will use same lmg as other negev as it will be chosen

 

[Corvus Splendens]

dual feeding is only there on Negev 5.56x45mm one,
Negev NG-7 that we got as replacement of INSAS LMG only feeds from belts,
otherwise yes, Negev NG-7 is more leaning towards a lighter full powered SAW than a GPMG


well we can just induct some good numbers of DRDO 7.62mm Belt Fed LMGs instead of tinkering around with Negev NG-7 design which IPRs are not in our hands anyways
View attachment 33186
it has longer enough top rails to mount any LPVO, and at 9.5 Kg of weight it's in M60 range, and although it's seen as lighter machined receiver build of MAG 58 we can still attempt at modernising it like giving it a tactical buttstock and handguards near gas tube, a better bipod etc to make it more appealing as an LMG-ish thing

I am once again BEGGING OFB wallas to take a look at Barrett's M240 LWS. I also don't get why every gun needs an FNC style pistol grip as if more ergonomic alternatives don't exist, despite reaching into FAB's parts bin for years now.​

 

[KAB7777]

I am once again BEGGING OFB wallas to take a look at Barrett's M240 LWS. I also don't get why every gun needs an FNC style pistol grip as if more ergonomic alternatives don't exist, despite reaching into FAB's parts bin for years now.​

View attachment 33210View attachment 33212
View attachment 33213

The OFB/ARDE one looks very much inspired by this version. Perhaps a buttstock change is also in order?

 

[johny_baba]

Estonian Negev with extended rail

well it's some rail attachment on Negev NG-7 that goes over standard top rail and extended upto full length of receiver and affixed with hinged top feed cover at front, so when you open feed cover it also hinges up

not a bad setup per se, but it's something that aftermarket parts makers can easily make here @Baseplate @BlackViking sorry kinda forgot who was into making FAB style stuff here but there's an opportunity here for Negev NG-7

 

[johny_baba]

Indian army will reject it for its weight
Some indian lmg with Indian IPR would have been alot better

bhai, let me put it in some perspective

Negev NG-7
> stamped receiver design, so naturally lightweight
> inverted kalashnikov inspired fixed firing pin bolt and bolt carrier design, also relatively lighter than other BCG designs, long stroke gas piston system with gas regulator
> belt feeding system is also loosely based on PK where rearward stroke of the bolt actuates spring-loaded pawls to push the next link forward, and during forward motion it feeds from imminent link in the tray and fires and cycle continues etc
> 20 inch barrel, detachable

so it was made with lightweightness in mind from beginning, but do mind it that rotating bolt machine guns do have more mechanical failures at extreme times

comparing it to DRDO / ARDE / OFB whatever 7.62 NATO belt fed 'LMG' here
> based on MAG 58 that is around ~12 kg
> barrel seems shortened a bit from ~24.5 inches to 20 inches some, also detachable with handle
> gas regulator is also simplified a bit
> receiver is of milled type now than heavy riveted build on MAG 58 comprised of thick metal plates, now lighter - it's straight taken from Barrett M240 LWS BUT barrel length here is longer
> now it has full length top rail on feed cover
> MAG 58 style vertical tilting downward locking bolt and long stroke gas piston bolt carrier system
> now comes with semi-automatic and fully automatic fire modes
> weight ~9.5 kg

so for around same barrel length of Negev NG-7 you get uber reliable GPMG-ish 'LMG' on this one with milled receiver, of course it goes about 2 kilos up due to things i mentioned,
BUT it's totally possible to reduce the weight further by putting titanium alloys in construction of BCG and milled receiver and related parts inside, and additional modifications here and there => there exists M240L which has 21-some inch barrel at around 9.3 kg with titanium receiver alone

DRDO ARDE OFB AWEIL whatever guys shouldn't have stopped with just putting a new milled receiver and worked further to shed some weight, if they are able to achieve even 8 Kg of weight it'll be on par with Negev NG-7 but far more sturdier and reliable

right now this 'LMG' is standing at M60 vietnam era design, which was stamped receiver, rotating bolt design with a heavy short stroke gas piston system and yet weighing ~10.5 kg , there's lots of work to be done

 

[username unkown]

bhai, let me put it in some perspective

Negev NG-7
> stamped receiver design, so naturally lightweight
> inverted kalashnikov inspired fixed firing pin bolt and bolt carrier design, also relatively lighter than other BCG designs, long stroke gas piston system with gas regulator
> belt feeding system is also loosely based on PK where rearward stroke of the bolt actuates spring-loaded pawls to push the next link forward, and during forward motion it feeds from imminent link in the tray and fires and cycle continues etc
> 20 inch barrel, detachable

so it was made with lightweightness in mind from beginning, but do mind it that rotating bolt machine guns do have more mechanical failures at extreme times

comparing it to DRDO / ARDE / OFB whatever 7.62 NATO belt fed 'LMG' here
> based on MAG 58 that is around ~12 kg
> barrel seems shortened a bit from ~24.5 inches to 20 inches some, also detachable with handle
> gas regulator is also simplified a bit
> receiver is of milled type now than heavy riveted build on MAG 58 comprised of thick metal plates, now lighter - it's straight taken from Barrett M240 LWS BUT barrel length here is longer
> now it has full length top rail on feed cover
> MAG 58 style vertical tilting downward locking bolt and long stroke gas piston bolt carrier system
> now comes with semi-automatic and fully automatic fire modes
> weight ~9.5 kg

so for around same barrel length of Negev NG-7 you get uber reliable GPMG-ish 'LMG' on this one with milled receiver, of course it goes about 2 kilos up due to things i mentioned,
BUT it's totally possible to reduce the weight further by putting titanium alloys in construction of BCG and milled receiver and related parts inside, and additional modifications here and there => there exists M240L which has 21-some inch barrel at around 9.3 kg with titanium receiver alone

DRDO ARDE OFB AWEIL whatever guys shouldn't have stopped with just putting a new milled receiver and worked further to shed some weight, if they are able to achieve even 8 Kg of weight it'll be on par with Negev NG-7 but far more sturdier and reliable

If ARDE guys have shed more weight on thier lmg and new furniture it would be better choice than negev ng 7
if ARDE could also come up with unique feeding mechanism sometihing similar to fn evolys we could have gotten sometihing similar to other next gen mg
Thease are all just our khyale pulav if we are discussing all this here i am sure atleast 3 out of 10 guys from ARDE knows this much thet they can go further and improve it but its either thier sab chalta hai attitude and even if best system is offered army won't order it happening with sss defence in carbines and sniper tenders